You can't always get a consensus. In this case, the player with the character on their death bed obviously won't step up and say, "let him live!" because he doesn't want to stick out or ask for special favours.

When you can't get a consensus, well that's why every GM has a Viking Hat sitting under the table ready to go.

Quote from: SpikePut the dice in his hand. Maybe its a stamina check (with bonuses for good doctoring) or a will to live check (willpower? Maybe...)...  IF he lives, he'll still have to recover, if he dies, well, he dies. roll up a new one.

IF your group has been debating this like I think they have, then that will probably be one of the most intense and watched rolls of the season/campaign/whatever you call it....

I'll consider this. But I do know there are some in the group that are not entirely happy with the roll with it philosophy esp when it comes to random non-heroic death. I'm probably not describing this last bit accurately. For sometime now, I've observed that with some in the group, rolling dice although still as exciting as before comes in second to other aspects of the game.

:shrug: This problem would have come up even if I had allowed the character to die on the street. We're playing this Thursday so one way or another this issue will be resolved.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RYeah. I get where you are going with this. I do, think however the roll with it philosophy - at least as far as they concerned - should be used where applicable, as a general rule. I'd much prefer the we are on the same page at any particular moment approach myself...

Regards,
David R

It sounds like you've got a good read on them. For folks that are willing to do it and sound rules roll with it works really well. The only thing at this point that you need to figure out is whether the rules as they stand right now give, in the long run, the desired results or if ammending is appropriate. And for that concensus is pretty damn important. It certainly is and should be framed as something bigger than buddy in a coma.

I wonder, do you think the others might be a little scared of picking up the stone and running with it themselves? If so might be time to remind them that RPGs are not a spectator sport and give them a encouraging verbal shove out of the nest. Turn the spotlight on them and make them react. :cool:

Besides if this guy really did grasp the rules well he should have know that this could happen. Maybe this is why he's cool with the guy dieing because as he sees and understands it the threat is the thing that enables him to enjoy it? If he is inherently a risk taker/pusher this could be the case.

Quote from: David RBut I do know there are some in the group that are not entirely happy with the roll with it philosophy esp when it comes to random non-heroic death. I'm probably not describing this last bit accurately.

Maybe you mean non-climactic death? Because as described this sounded like a hero's death. Just not a "storybook single protagonist at the end of the book/season" death.

Quote from: blakkieMaybe you mean non-climactic death? Because as described this sounded like a hero's death. Just not a "storybook single protagonist at the end of the book/season" death.

Yeah, this sounds much better

As for you other post, you raise some interesting questions. They deserve detailed answers. I'll get to them later.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: blakkieIt sounds like you've got a good read on them. For folks that are willing to do it and sound rules roll with it works really well. The only thing at this point that you need to figure out is whether the rules as they stand right now give, in the long run, the desired results or if ammending is appropriate. And for that concensus is pretty damn important. It certainly is and should be framed as something bigger than buddy in a coma.

Yes, I did however put forward the view (droog's actually) about "being on the same page at any particular moment. I've also thrown into the mix, John Morrow's "fate" point  suggestion and off course my own cop out idea. All are being considered by my players.

The thing is,the roll with it rule is not a deal breaker, we ain't that kind of group. Obviously certain players want some change. It's all about working it out, so that what made the games exciting before for all, is not totally changed in favour of the ones who want something different.

QuoteI wonder, do you think the others might be a little scared of picking up the stone and running with it themselves? If so might be time to remind them that RPGs are not a spectator sport and give them a encouraging verbal shove out of the nest. Turn the spotlight on them and make them react. :cool:

This is actualy part of the dicsussion. You see in some games certain players kind of are like the main stars. Now don't take this the wrong way. Everyones contributing and having fun and are obviously deriving satisfaction from the games, but one or two stand out. It happens in every group, and I'm lucky that in my campaigns it's not awlays the same folks.

In this particular campaign the comatose character and another player are the two opposing viewpoints that the other characters gravitate towards. The former is the noble hero type whose struggling to retain his humanity and compassion while facing off vile forces and encourages the others to do the same, while the latter is cynical warrior whose only aim is to eradicate the growing evil no matter what the cost.

This dynamic is something I had nothing to do with. Like I mentioned earlier, it was something the players created amongst themselves. There is the worry (by all, I might add) that once this character goes, something will be lost in the campaign.

(Curious, I started a thread about the GM's role in making the game fun, and here's an example of the players doing it all by themselves...)

It's not so much about shining the spotlight - they all have their moments, but rather the fear, that the tone of the campaign will change, a tone which was to all of them, the best thing about this campaign. Sure, I also have something to do with it, but the dynamic between these two character propelled the story forward.

QuoteBesides if this guy really did grasp the rules well he should have know that this could happen. Maybe this is why he's cool with the guy dieing because as he sees and understands it the threat is the thing that enables him to enjoy it? If he is inherently a risk taker/pusher this could be the case.

Oh, he knew the risks. All my players thankfully are not whiners. If they create heroic characters (like he did) they show how heroic their characters are  

He's warming to the idea of using his standby character, but likes the idea of letting his comatose character remain in the campign if only as a symbol. He likes the idea of the possibility of coming back though, but he also likes the idea of his character dying - maybe not as heroic as he would have liked, but the way he's going has the "banal stench of normality, that fits perfectly with the 70's era malaise tone of this campaign" (his words more or less)

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RI'll consider this. But I do know there are some in the group that are not entirely happy with the roll with it philosophy esp when it comes to random non-heroic death.

This statement gave me an interesting idea that I'm going to toss out partially formed to see if anything can do something with it.  If the problem is an unheroic death, how about turning an unheroic death into a sort of "living on borrowed time" that the player has to cash in during the next heroic encounter or the character will die anyway?  (I wouldn't be surprised if some system already has something like this and would be curious how it works.)

Very interesting idea John. I liked the idea so much, that I proposed this to the comatose guy's player.The plan is, he mysteriously vanishes from the hospital and has one day to find his heroic moment. He's thinking about what that is...and knowing him, he will come up with something interesting. The next adventure will have two paralel storylines.

The first, the rest of the group trying to find the missing pc and the second his last final attempt at a heroic demise.The other players really like this idea, and are dying to see what he comes up with. Although he has told all of us, that depending on how events unfold, he wants to have a Rutger Haur (Roy Batty) death scene

All the players seem happy with the way how things turned out. The general consensus seems to be that they will tackle game problems as it comes up. Although I realise I've not heard the last of this, they are not really interested in making any grand declarations, being quite happy with the way how things have turned out and deciding to deal with problems on a case by case basis.

Regards,
David R

Make sure to keep us up to date on what happens... tonight, isn't it?

It's very early Friday morning here in Malaysia, we just finished the session an hour ago

I don't normally name individual sessions of a campaign except on special occasions, and I think this one qualifies. So, here's a rundown of A Requiem For Detective Merrin...

So, the pcs approved of my - okay, John's - borrowed time idea , and the game started with the mysterious dissapearence of deadboy from the hospital. Joining them was a new character (although they did not know it at the time) a defrocked priest who volunteers at the hospital. After a brief discussion, they set out look for their missing comrade - minus the priest.

Now, upthread I mentioned that this player was looking for his heroic moment, and what he came up with suprised me. Although the campaign is in the thrid season, I have yet to formally introduce the BigBad. They are still putting down roots, so to speak in the setting. What this player had been concentrating on since the beginning of the campaign was investigating (on his own time) a group of corrupt police officers he was familiar with from his days as a rookie.

Check that. He was part of them. Let's just say he had a Training Day relationship with this (unknown to him at the time) demon touched captain. As part of their team, he had beaten to death a young street urchin and framed an innocent police officer.

For the past two seasons he was trying to find a way to bring them down. He had not told any of the other players about his past. It was interesting. He had built up a rep for being such a good guy and the last thing he wants to do, is expose this group and himself.

There was two aspects to this game. The first, a one on one session with him, gathering evidence and making sure the pcs found it. And the second, his comrades deciphering the various clues he had strewn about and acting on them leading to a showdown with some really pissed of half demons in a deserted steel mill.

Throughout the game he was passing notes, to his ideological opposite - the player who was/is his dark half. Before the big showdown, much to the dismay of the other players she leaves the group. Apparently the notes were telephatic clues to his whereabouts and they should take care of the mess here as she was going to see him. Although they wanted her there - she was the best fighter, they told her to go.

So, while this ultra violent fight - and shit, was it violent ...I mean, I've run some violent games for this campaign, but this was VIOLENT...she and deadboy were talking in the kitchen. By the time, the fight was over with one player losing an eye and the others pretty busted up, I join  the two of them in the kitchen. Deadboy sets, the scene for me. He is in his rookie uniform(tight fitting) sitting in the subway train he used to patrol  back in the day(His body is obviously shutting down). They ask me if I want to know what had transpired, and I said no, just let me hear the last words between the two of you.

She : You should have told us (I suspect it's some of the secrets he had discovered), we could have helped.

Pause

       : I've got to go now. I don't want to leave...

He cuts her off

He : I think, I'm just going to sit here for a while.

So, the adventure ends with this player having the death he wanted the most, something out of Collateral. (No big showdown, just a quiet, lonely death on a moving train with oblivous passengers)

A couple of things.

1 - Because of what happened in the city, the pcs have to leave Dodge. Not a problem, they have some leads to follow up, and even though, I envisoned this to be an urban campaign, a tour of the country side would do the group good. I'm looking forward to establishing a 70's small town feel on the game and besides, Supernatural type diversions is a good thing

2 - Deadboy's new character looks promising. This player only plays good guy types, but this character although good, is exhibiting a wicked sense of humour, a first for this player.

3 - One of the best roleplaying session - from all -I ever had with this group. For this adventure it seems they were all deep immersion players. Very cool.

So, that's it. Sorry for the long post and thanks for all the invaluable ideas.

Regards,
David R

Heh.. when you talked about the corrupt cop angle, I flashed to... god, what was it called 'Deep Blue' I think?  Where Kurt Russel basically implodes at the end of the movie, taking down just about everyone with him!

Wrong movie I guess, but the Collateral reference was pretty cool too, still it would have been nice to:

A: find out what went on between those two characters

B: Have his final scene help resolve the fight with the big bad in some way.




But that's my take. Sounds like everyone involved had an awesome time of it, so Kudos to you!:chestram:

Quote from: SpikeHeh.. when you talked about the corrupt cop angle, I flashed to... god, what was it called 'Deep Blue' I think?  Where Kurt Russel basically implodes at the end of the movie, taking down just about everyone with him!

Hmm, that was a cool movie, but I think he wanted to go for something lowkey, something elegiac (my favourite word )...a kind of urban legend-y way to go, just like in Collateral...(Did you hear about the dead cop they found on the train....he was just sitting there...)

QuoteA: find out what went on between those two characters

You, know this is what all the other players wanted to know, and the player who was with him is keeping mum - which I suppose is the point. She knows a couple of things about the campaign, it sorta of adds to the mystery.

QuoteB: Have his final scene help resolve the fight with the big bad in some way.

Honestly it was totally up to him. I always have these storylines unconnected to the main plot of the campaign. I think to him, resolving his storyline was the way to go.

QuoteBut that's my take. Sounds like everyone involved had an awesome time of it, so Kudos to you!:chestram:

It was sooo friggin' great

Regards,
David R

That's awesome, Davd R. I gotta take GMing lessons from you!

Thanks for the write up.  Makes me glad that I decided to throw out that half-formed idea that you ran with instead of trying to form it into something more specific, which would have been something in a quite different direction.  Very interesting direction you and the player took things in.  As writers say, ideas are cheap.  It's what you do with them that counts.

Quote from: David R1 - Because of what happened in the city, the pcs have to leave Dodge. Not a problem, they have some leads to follow up, and even though, I envisoned this to be an urban campaign, a tour of the country side would do the group good. I'm looking forward to establishing a 70's small town feel on the game and besides, Supernatural type diversions is a good thing

You could do some very interesting things with the whole Dukes of Hazzard, Sheriff Lobo theme, especially if you play the corrupt officials seriously (Sheriff Lobo was originally pretty serious) instead of for laughs -- or maybe play them for dark laughs.  There are some other relentless sheriff sources from that period, including the movies Convoy and Smokey and the Bandit.  Break out your 70s CB Lingo book and you could also do a rolling game based around trucks and truckers ala BJ and the Bear (a veritable cornucopia of 70s cliches including Vietnam Vet, truck driver, local corruption, hot women, animal companion, etc., which, again, started out more seriously than it ended up).

Quote from: David R3 - One of the best roleplaying session - from all -I ever had with this group. For this adventure it seems they were all deep immersion players. Very cool.

Were they happy with how it turned out?  Are they going to expect you to pull off a session like this every time a character has to die?

Just gotta apologize if my last post came across a little critque like.  One thing I always have to keep in mind in my GMing is that what I think is cool is not necessarily what the player thinks is cool, and its his character.

So, while my idea of an ending would have been awesome, it lacked the solemn dignity and, well I guess completeness of the players ending. He wouldn't have found my ending nearly as awesome.

Besides, you still got the awesome showdown with the rest of the party, so you had the best of both worlds!