Quote from: rytrasmi on December 01, 2023, 09:10:40 AM
Yeah, okay, so ban the users doing the brigading.

Banning all discussion of a creator and his past and future work is something else.

So the mod line- that there was something organized in Macris's discord to "brigade" the subreddits- is probably a lie, and definitely not actually truth.  I saw a couple threads about it on /r/osr, because there's a new version on kickstarter.  This didn't even make me blink, because, like, remember all the fucking Shadowdark threads?  Like every game of note gets a bunch of threads.

Maybe, if you go into Macris's discord and swear the fascist blood oath, you get a hayle hortler notsticka with only three and a half arms as a tattoo, and then you get into the secret BRIGADE CHANNEL.  But I was there in that discord reading along because I'm actually cross about stuff Macris is doing and I was looking to maybe pick a fight with someone, and I never saw any fucking "brigade" forming.  Then all the reddit bitches start acting like the fact that some of the thousands of ACKS players might be interested in talking about a new version and this was UNSATISFACTORY in their slow moving /r/OSR subreddit that is pretty constantly filled with people actually self promoting various projects (which I hasten to add, is exactly what you would expect out of a design school forum), and then suddenly there were threads like ALEXANDER MACRIS IS A SUPER DOUBLE NAHTZEE WHO ALL OF US SERIOUS SOCIAL POSTERS ARE HERE ORGANICALLY TO COMPLAIN ABOUT, and then it was added to rule 6.

Don't believe a word of those mods, or their activist allies.  It's all bullshit at best, and probably outright lies.

Quote from: Venka on December 01, 2023, 02:17:57 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 01, 2023, 09:10:40 AM
Yeah, okay, so ban the users doing the brigading.

Banning all discussion of a creator and his past and future work is something else.

So the mod line- that there was something organized in Macris's discord to "brigade" the subreddits- is probably a lie, and definitely not actually truth.  I saw a couple threads about it on /r/osr, because there's a new version on kickstarter.  This didn't even make me blink, because, like, remember all the fucking Shadowdark threads?  Like every game of note gets a bunch of threads.

Maybe, if you go into Macris's discord and swear the fascist blood oath, you get a hayle hortler notsticka with only three and a half arms as a tattoo, and then you get into the secret BRIGADE CHANNEL.  But I was there in that discord reading along because I'm actually cross about stuff Macris is doing and I was looking to maybe pick a fight with someone, and I never saw any fucking "brigade" forming.  Then all the reddit bitches start acting like the fact that some of the thousands of ACKS players might be interested in talking about a new version and this was UNSATISFACTORY in their slow moving /r/OSR subreddit that is pretty constantly filled with people actually self promoting various projects (which I hasten to add, is exactly what you would expect out of a design school forum), and then suddenly there were threads like ALEXANDER MACRIS IS A SUPER DOUBLE NAHTZEE WHO ALL OF US SERIOUS SOCIAL POSTERS ARE HERE ORGANICALLY TO COMPLAIN ABOUT, and then it was added to rule 6.

Don't believe a word of those mods, or their activist allies.  It's all bullshit at best, and probably outright lies.

That was my reaction. I think it's possible that a brigade formed, but I have no evidence aside from moderator claims, claims that serve their own biases and interests. And I've seen this tactic of weaponizing victimhood before. So I take their claim of brigading with a mountain of salt.

Quote from: NotFromAroundHere on December 01, 2023, 03:27:50 AM

Quote from: KindaMeh on November 30, 2023, 03:25:11 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/17mz4v5/subreddit_rule_changes_blacklisted_creators/

On the one hand, it's primarily this general subreddit. But on the other, it's a pretty big subreddit for rpgs more generally, and part of a larger trend. Apparently it's not just him but any "blacklisted creator" who cannot be discussed from here on in. Zak S is another one, and currently I think the list is just those two. But in theory the mods are the ones who arbitrarily decide from here on in who gets blacklisted and must not be named within an rpg context.

IDK, maybe this isn't really super newsworthy, or should be in the political subforum. That said, I figure that this could be argued in a sense emblematic of prior corporate and anti-free-speech  trends within rpgs, TTRPGs, and the hobby more broadly.

If you cared to read the post that you linked you should have found this at line 6 (yes, 6 full lines of text to read, what a shame):

Quote
Furthermore, the mod team here has seen evidence of vote manipulation and collusion from the ACKS discord channel to promote ACKS here beyond what is permitted by reddit.

That's the reason for banning discussions on Macris' works, not because r/rpg is "anti-free-speech" or "woke": there was direct evidence of violation of reddit's rules, and in these cases a mod team must act or reddit will act for them (usually by closing the sub). Same thing for r/osr: they were brigaded.

And we know this is true how? Oh, right the mods said so...

Fuck off you feckless cunt.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 30, 2023, 06:08:33 PM
What is the leftards issue with ACKS?

Their issue is with the game's creator, and not the game.

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 01, 2023, 06:03:30 PM
Their issue is with the game's creator, and not the game.

And the lies they repeat about him.

I think claiming something on Reddit did NOT occur because of brigading might have the heavier burden of proof.

Quote from: pawsplay on December 01, 2023, 06:53:47 PM
I think claiming something on Reddit did NOT occur because of brigading might have the heavier burden of proof.

I think those making a positive claim have a burden of proof and not the ones saying "I don't believe you".

So, do you have ANY proof of such claim?

I didn't engage in or organize any brigading.

If the mods had actual evidence I engaged or organized brigading, I am pretty certain they'd have published it and banned *me*. But they didn't. Even today I'm not banned on those channels, because I didn't do anything wrong.

In actuality, I did the *opposite* of brigading: I told people on my Discord "I don't go where I'm not wanted" and "I don't need you to defend my life choices." I believe the mods simply didn't want to have to enforce their rules on no politics, and it was easier to ban discussion of me. I get it; I have been in similar situations in the past and made the same choice they did.

But "brigading"? No, that was a pretext for wanting to curtail troublesome discussions.

Those who don't want to support me because I worked for Milo, supported Trump, or sided with gamers during Gamergate -- I have no real issue with them. They are entitled to spend their money on whomever they prefer, and I'm an adult who takes responsibility for my life choices, good, bad, and mediocre as they  might be. Those who attempt to harm me by lying about what I actually believe, in order to paint me as some reincarnation of Hitler, them I take issue with. I extend to them the contempt and disgust worthy of such immoral and dishonest dastards.

This kind of proves my point. The man has integrity, regardless of if your political coordinates align. And he treats you with integrity even if you don't agree with him. Likewise, the brigading claims and general justifications for blacklisting seem to have been bullshit.

I'd actually say we should maybe consider looking into his games if we haven't yet already. As a way to counter overt censorship within the hobby. I for one love Ascendant, and will be not only continuing to purchase there, but also consider looking into ACKS as a result of this incident. So hopefully there may be a silver lining of sorts to all this mess, in that we know what's being done, and we can choose to make at least a small difference to the contrary should we wish to.

Quote from: amacris on December 01, 2023, 07:51:37 PM
I didn't engage in or organize any brigading.

That's certainly plausible. And as you note, it's not you personally that was sanctioned.

Quote from: Kiero on December 01, 2023, 06:28:45 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 01, 2023, 06:03:30 PM
Their issue is with the game's creator, and not the game.

And the lies they repeat about him.

If his game is good, without crappy agendas in it; then I am all for ACKS.  I don't need to know all the details about his personal life.  I just like good products.

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 02, 2023, 02:17:46 AM
If his game is good, without crappy agendas in it; then I am all for ACKS.  I don't need to know all the details about his personal life.  I just like good products.

I don't know, do you consider having a semi-assumed setting based on antiquity rather than the Medieval era and a detailed system for building plausible economies an "agenda"? Because if he is trying to push any message, I didn't get it from the books.

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 01, 2023, 06:03:30 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 30, 2023, 06:08:33 PM
What is the leftards issue with ACKS?

Their issue is with the game's creator, and not the game.

Of course, because they don't actually play anything.

Quote from: rytrasmi on November 30, 2023, 04:22:57 PM
Yeah I dropped both RPG and OSR subs after that.

After you strip away all the fluff, the mods' core argument is "We don't want to moderate the mess that discussion of these creators causes here."

Ok, so you can't be arsed to mod when you're a mod, so resign. Nah! Let's just ban stuff.

This is what allways bugs the absolute hell out of me. People create and moderate these places and then cant be fucked to actually police them and either do nothing and just let the harassment go on, or appoint moderators who they then say "Not my problem" when the mods abuse their position, or just ban stuff so they do not have to deal with it. Or worse case scenario is they support the troublemakers.

Quote from: Kiero on December 02, 2023, 06:20:23 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 02, 2023, 02:17:46 AM
If his game is good, without crappy agendas in it; then I am all for ACKS.  I don't need to know all the details about his personal life.  I just like good products.

I don't know, do you consider having a semi-assumed setting based on antiquity rather than the Medieval era and a detailed system for building plausible economies an "agenda"? Because if he is trying to push any message, I didn't get it from the books.

That doesn't sound like an agenda, to me?  I'm not an ACKS hater.  Everything I hear about the game, is positive.  All the hate, seems to just be personal attacks on the creator.  It's a shame.