This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: Al-Quadim setting return?  (Read 12810 times)

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 17093
Al-Quadim setting return?
« on: March 12, 2020, 02:27:02 PM »
The recent set of D&D 5e playtest material had a sort of theme to them that reminded me alot of TSRs Arabian Knights setting and got me wondering if they are planning a return of Al Quadim.

It is one of the few TSR settings I have never had a chance to look at. Just heard others accounts and the occasional articles on it.

Anyone ever used it and what were their impressions?

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2020, 02:48:20 PM »
I've used all of Al-Qadim - I crashed my PC's onto Al-Qadim (from Spelljammer) and we ended up spending a solid year of real-time gaming there. I also wrote some of the "official" 3e Al-Qadim stuff for Dragon, so yeah, it's near and dear to my grizzled black heart.

My impressions: one of the best versions of D&D in terms of setting and production. I still have all my Al-Qadim stuff. It had flavor - it *really* captured the Sinbad swashbuckling vibe and its presentation of elemental magic and the Genie courts made it stand out without deviating too far.  

None of my players realized there were in Al-Qadim for almost three sessions. None of them ever wanted to play in it... but after doing some adventures there, they loved it. One even "went Native".
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 02:50:44 PM by tenbones »

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2020, 03:40:14 PM »
I never really groked on to Al-Qadim.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2020, 04:34:36 PM »
No way in hell will it be Al-Q. TSR properties (aside from FR and minor traces of others) are dead. OTOH, if there is an Arabian Nights-themed MtG setting, WotC might publish something like that.

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2020, 05:12:43 PM »
Quote from: Shasarak;1124031
I never really groked on to Al-Qadim.

What's to grok? Sinbad! Ali-Baba and the 40 Thieves! Sherezade! all the classic Ray Harryhausen movies! Then toss in some D&D-style Vancian magic and conceits.

No impact?

insubordinate polyhedral

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • i
  • Posts: 352
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2020, 09:50:32 PM »
I used Al-Qadim! I actually ran it converted to 5e before I stopped playing 5e. My players seemed to really enjoy it. Swashbuckling through desert markets was lots of fun, and it's got a lot of fantastic adventure elements that have a different play feel from fantasy Europe.

There's some neat ideas and material about the importance of things like social station and how that affects interactions, and some cool character options that I did some slapdash mechanical bullshittery to make 5e-compatible-enough-whatever.

It's also a very pretty book, nicely done. I don't have that much TSR stuff so I don't know how it compares overall. I'm really happy I bought it though and it's something I definitely wouldn't get rid of lightly, even though I have never played 2e and would only ever use the material with conversion work.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 17093
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2020, 10:55:11 PM »
Quote from: HappyDaze;1124033
No way in hell will it be Al-Q. TSR properties (aside from FR and minor traces of others) are dead. OTOH, if there is an Arabian Nights-themed MtG setting, WotC might publish something like that.

They just did a Greyhawk module last year. Ghosts of Saltmarsh is set in Greyhawk.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 17093
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2020, 11:01:51 PM »
Emirates of Ylaruam is a nice little precursor to Al-Qadim for BECMI D&D. They pack alot of info into that thing!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 05:27:07 AM by Omega »

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14805
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2020, 03:55:22 AM »
I loved Al-Qadim...pre-9/11. We had such great fun, total Sinbad & Arabian Nights fantasy...but post 9/11, I could not get a table to get excited about touching anything from the Middle East. The few tables I ran just turned into political suckfests. But my last attempt was 10 years ago, and I've been yearning for some "Desert Fantasy" again.

Of course, I hope WotC is NOT doing Al-Qadim. As their entire staff is made of concentrated SJW flavored dumb, they can't be trusted to do anything remotely smart, useful or accurate with the setting.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 17093
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2020, 05:34:57 AM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1124066
Of course, I hope WotC is NOT doing Al-Qadim. As their entire staff is made of concentrated SJW flavored dumb, they can't be trusted to do anything remotely smart, useful or accurate with the setting.

Its just a guess really on my part based on the playtest class paths. Warlock patron Noble Genie, Clockwork Sorcerer were what stood out as possible nods to the setting.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2020, 07:23:04 AM »
Quote from: Omega;1124055
They just did a Greyhawk module last year. Ghosts of Saltmarsh is set in Greyhawk.

Sure, it was an ankle-deep Greyhawk insertion. It was intentionally made to be separable from Greyhawk and playable in other settings, and it's hardly the same as imagining that they would put out a Greyhawk setting book.

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2020, 01:54:03 PM »
Quote from: HappyDaze;1124082
Sure, it was an ankle-deep Greyhawk insertion. It was intentionally made to be separable from Greyhawk and playable in other settings, and it's hardly the same as imagining that they would put out a Greyhawk setting book.


"Ankle-deep" is a very good description of how I viewed most 5e fare. ALL of these settings - especially Greyhawk, and Al-Qadim deserve better.

Gagarth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 635
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2020, 02:18:06 PM »
If WoTC do bring it back I am sure they will run it past Hamas and Hezbollah sensitivity readers.  If not outright hire them to write it.
'Don't join us. Work hard, get good degrees, join the Establishment and serve our cause from within.' Harry Pollitt - Communist Party GB

 “Don’t worry about the election, Trump’s not gonna win. I made f*cking sure of that!” Eric Coomer -  Dominion Voting Systems Officer of Strategy and Security

BoxCrayonTales

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • B
  • Posts: 3313
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2020, 02:52:29 PM »
Quote from: Gagarth;1124105
If WoTC do bring it back I am sure they will run it past Hamas and Hezbollah sensitivity readers.  If not outright hire them to write it.

In an abstract sense, the "foreign" settings were written by people who weren't actually very familiar with the real world settings that inspired the genres and thus ended up relying on exotic stereotypes. A person raised in Arabic culture is going to have a very different concept of an "Arabian Adventures" setting than someone who wasn't raised in Arabic culture.

You don't need to hire sensitivity readers. Just hire consultants from the pool of people with degrees in Arabic studies. An "Arabic Adventures" setting isn't going to have Muslims running around in it anymore than the standard generic pseudo-medieval European-inspired fantasy setting is going to have Jews and Christians running around in it.

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
Al-Quadim setting return?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2020, 03:12:09 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124106
In an abstract sense, the "foreign" settings were written by people who weren't actually very familiar with the real world settings that inspired the genres and thus ended up relying on exotic stereotypes. A person raised in Arabic culture is going to have a very different concept of an "Arabian Adventures" setting than someone who wasn't raised in Arabic culture.

Then they should write that book/boxset and sell it to me. Otherwise... Al-Qadim works fine for my fantasy game of makebelieve. I don't care about authenticity for another person's feelings about a game *they* are not playing with *me*. I care about perceiving something as "good" to use in *my* presentation to my players at a level *I* am fine with.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Whether someone "feels bad" about a specific stereotype - is not my problem. No one is being forced to consume anything they choose not to consume. Win/win.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124106
You don't need to hire sensitivity readers. Just hire consultants from the pool of people with degrees in Arabic studies. An "Arabic Adventures" setting isn't going to have Muslims running around in it anymore than the standard generic pseudo-medieval European-inspired fantasy setting is going to have Jews and Christians running around in it.

Or you know... you can just watch a bunch of Harryhausen movies and copy that, if that's what you want to play. I'm Asian, and I'm a Herculean-level fan of Oriental Adventures and the Kara-tur Boxset. I'm pretty confident that no one at TSR or Mike Pondsmith has a degree in "Asian studies" when they wrote those books. Did they get things "historically" wrong? Sure. Point me to an RPG book that gets any analog culture 100% accurate for a *fantasy elf-game*. That's the whole point - it doesn't need to be. If it's an issue - and you're the GM and you perceive it as an issue, fix it at your table. I do it all the time.

What is the point of being offended that a stereotype is being used? What *ISN'T* a stereotype by the standards of someone looking for something to be outraged at?

Make it good and interesting. Play the game how you want. RPG's aren't making people racists and they're not supposed to be historical textbooks you're going to be tested on. "Cultural appropriation" is a stupid idea. It seems to me that RPG's as a hobby is collecting passive-aggressive racists in the form of "Progressives" that are bringing their own inherent bigotries to the hobby and placing those bigotries over the engagement of the hobby itself in order to control things.

Eh, I got dice to roll and fun to be had. I.e. "Better things to do".


Edit: And why wouldn't/couldn't an "Arabic Adventures" setting have Muslims running around in it? Or Jews and Christians in a European game??? I'm confused? Are those elements magically verboten?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 03:18:33 PM by tenbones »