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Author Topic: [GURPS] Issue with HT rolls  (Read 1125 times)

Claudius

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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« on: September 22, 2007, 03:48:47 PM »
Today we continued with our GURPS Conan game, and we had this problem. The characters were fighting ghouls, and one of the characters, the Nemedian knight, stroke the ghoul with 20 hp to the head. The ghoul was at -17, so he had to roll his HT (12) to check whether he dies, passes out, or whatever. Well, he passed all his rolls, which is not very difficult with his HT 12. This bugged us and broke our suspension of disbelief, such hit should have felled anybody but very powerful monsters (and this was not the case).

So, we thought we should apply some penalty to HT rolls (the -1 per full multiple of HP is not enough). I thought of -1 for every -1 HP, -1 for every -5 HP, or something in between.

What do you think?
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walkerp
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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 05:48:12 PM »
Well he has to make that roll every combat round.  And he is at -whatever to all his attacks.  So in effect, he's basically reeling there. It is true that it is actually quite hard to totally die in GURPS.  I find this quite realistic.  Having a high HT allows you to 'hang on'.  I don't know what your gaming background is like, but it seemed weird to me at first to get past the 0 hp doesn't equal death, which is a legacy I got from D&D.

In my own games, I just take less important baddies out when they reach zero.  Otherwise, it's just too much bookkeeping.

I've also played a PC who was amped up on HT and staying conscious.  He was extremely hard to take down.
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dar

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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 05:49:24 PM »
A major wound to the head is a -10 penalty to the health roll for knockdown and stunning.

Yea, its a special case, but it makes sense.

estar

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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 06:09:04 PM »
The per round check for pass out below 0 HT is important to remember. With a HT of 12 they are out in about 3 rounds anyway. 3 seconds.

Finally in Martial Arts there is a new optional rule for major wounds (hits that do more than HT/2 damage. In real life particular Hit locations have more enduring effects when hit for massive amounts of damages regardless if it is a critical.

There are some new tables one for Neck, Skull, Veins and Arteries (a new MA hit location represents going for the jugular or the femoral arteries), and Vitals

walkerp
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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 08:49:01 PM »
Quote from: estar
There are some new tables one for Neck, Skull, Veins and Arteries (a new MA hit location represents going for the jugular or the femoral arteries), and Vitals


Arteries.  That's awesome.  Gotta love GURPS.
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Kyle Aaron

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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2007, 09:19:05 PM »
We're speaking of GURPS 4e, yes?

Setting aside that Martial Arts silliness, just looking at Characters and Campaigns you see from pB419 onwards, in summary,

When a character receives a Major Wound,
  • first note the hit location effects, that is - leg or foot and they drop straight away, arm or hand and they drop whatever was in it, eye they're blinded.
  • then check to see if they're knocked down and stunned, adding modifier for that location;
  • then if they're below 0HP, to see if they fall unconscious (whether they were knocked down and stunned or not)
  • then if they're at -1xHP or below, check if they die instantly.
In detail,
  • A "Major Wound" is more than HP/2 on limbs, body or head, HP/3 on hands and feet, HP/10 in the eyes.
    • If you get a Major Wound then you have to make a HT check to see if you are knocked down and stunned. When stunned you can't do anything except defend, and even that's at -4.
    • If you get a Major Wound on legs or feet, you automatically are knocked down, but still have to roll HT to see if you're stunned.
    • If you get a Major Wound on arms or hands, you automatically drop whatever you were holding in that hand, but still have to make the HT to see if you're knocked down and stunned.
    • If you get a Major Wound to the face or vitals or groin, it's a HT-5 roll.
    • If you get a Major Wound to the skull or eye it's a HT-10 roll. With the eye, you'll also be automatically blinded.
  • If you pass to 0HP or below, you must make a HT check every combat round to remain conscious; you can remain conscious without rolling if you do nothing. For each 1xHP under 0HP, this roll is at -1. So the average HP10 person at -4 must roll HT, at -10 at HT-1, at -20 at HT-2, etc.
  • If you are at -1xHP, you must roll to see if you drop dead on the spot. At -2xHP, roll again but now at HT-1, and so on; at -5xHP you automatically die.

So, your ghoul was struck in the "head". In GURPS 4e there's no "head" hit location, it's divided into "skull", "eye" and "face." He received a "Major Wound" of 20HP.
  • If struck on the skull, he had to make a HT-10 roll to stay up. With HT12, he had to roll 2 or under on... 3d6? Hmmm. Well, a 3 would be a critical success, otherwise he falls down stunned.
  • If struck in the face, he had to make a HT-5 roll to stay up.
  • If struck in the eye, he was instantly blinded, he had to make a HT-10 roll to stay up. And any damage over HP/5 should have gone through into his "skull" hit location, and all damage to the brain is x4, so....
You didn't tell us what his HP were, so I can't tell you the odds of his falling unconscious, or dying instantly from the big blow. But basically he should have almost certainly fallen over and then only been able to defend himself poorly (at -4). At that point he should be easy to finish off, to leave there to bleed to death or whatever.

GURPS is like any rpg system in that it makes more sense when you actually use the rules before deciding whether they're any good or not. You are using just one or two without modifiers and then wondering why things are wonky.
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Koltar

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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2007, 12:15:29 AM »
Gee, All the GURPS questions happen when I'm at work or the movies. BOTH Dar and Kyle Aaron are correct - Kyle just gave the really well-detailed answer.

 At least thats the way I might run it in my GURPS campaign.....but I wouldn't go into the extreme detail. Id'd probly just say "You did enough damage, that  the damn ghoul isn't a concern for you guys any more."


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dar

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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2007, 12:33:35 AM »
Yea...

Ya know I did forget about the mook rules in 4e. Officially called the Cannon Fodder optional rule, this ghoul would have been mince meat way before he got to this point.

Kyle Aaron

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[GURPS] Issue with HT rolls
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2007, 05:52:00 AM »
Oh, and the other thing I thought of... this is a ghoul, yes? Aren't they supposed to be undead? So... they should fight on as you chop bits off them!

"You swing a mighty blow and squash his head into a bloody pulp. But he fights on, fumbling blindly at you with his vicious talons... dodge or parry?"
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