Advice for new (Aztec/Mayan) MU OSR classes.

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2021, 12:30:05 AM

What would you rather see:

Re-skinned spells to adjust them to the flavor of the setting

Totally new spells

A mix and match of both.

Aztec/Mayan priests were nothing like the Christian inspired cleric, they might be priests of one God, doesn't mean they didn't pray to the other gods, just that they only officiated in the temple of "their" God.

Same thing holds true for the MU, call it Shaman, Nahual, Sorcerer.

I'm "working" on a game/setting not even close to historically accurate but would like to give it a flavor that sets it apart from the classic Fantasy RPG.

So, what would you prefer?

Do you have any OGL source for different spells?

Slambo · March 31, 2021, 03:20:16 AM

Persobally i like mixing the two approaches to casting so therrs a few familiar spells, though itd also be pretty cool to have all unique spells. One thing id reccomend is maybe pairing down both the MU and Cleric spell lists and eliminating the regular cleric from the setting.

Premier · March 31, 2021, 07:55:29 AM

The Maztica setting for 2nd ed. AD&D was fantasy Mesoamerica, and IIRC it had two spellcaster classes designed specifically for the purpose. Don't have the time to check right now, but at least one of them placed a great emphasis on creating various amulets/fetishes with magic effects.

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2021, 12:24:13 PM

Quote from: Premier on March 31, 2021, 07:55:29 AM
The Maztica setting for 2nd ed. AD&D was fantasy Mesoamerica, and IIRC it had two spellcaster classes designed specifically for the purpose. Don't have the time to check right now, but at least one of them placed a great emphasis on creating various amulets/fetishes with magic effects.

It was too much fantasy, meaning you can not recognize shit, many of the spells are re-skined, and the amulet ones would need to read again but IIRC were also re-skined spells to include the amulet.

But thanks for the recomendation will read it again to see what I like.

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2021, 12:29:52 PM

Quote from: Slambo on March 31, 2021, 03:20:16 AM
Persobally i like mixing the two approaches to casting so therrs a few familiar spells, though itd also be pretty cool to have all unique spells. One thing id reccomend is maybe pairing down both the MU and Cleric spell lists and eliminating the regular cleric from the setting.

IMHO In this case, the priest is a MU because no civilization (that I know) in México made really a distinction between divine/arcane magic it was all the same for them.

And the Sorcerer (Brujo) was an evil practitioner who used it's "powers" to do evil shit.

Problem is the Priest worked at the temple, why would the temple allow or send priests out in the world? especially since they didn't do proselitism.

But that's for the setting to create an excuse, and I think I have a good one, but maybe not, we'll see.

Thanks for the advice.

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2021, 01:58:28 PM

Re-Skinning and re-imagining the spells for a maya-aztec setting:

Wield the Sun: think of it as every fire/light spell rolled into one, caster chooses form and his power level determines range and damage.

Obsidian Shield: A thin & transparent smoke barrier envelopes the target, any missile/weapon that comes into contact with the barrier explodes in a burst of flames (Magic Armor).

Thoughts?

Snowman0147 · March 31, 2021, 03:55:15 PM

Think you should go for a custom magic system that really fits the setting. Maybe RPGPundit can help you out with that.

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2021, 04:02:44 PM

Quote from: Snowman0147 on March 31, 2021, 03:55:15 PM
Think you should go for a custom magic system that really fits the setting. Maybe RPGPundit can help you out with that.

That's my aim, custom magic, but it also needs some familiarity. After all a death spell (magic missile, power word die, etc) is a death spell and a curse is a curse.

So the main difference will be the name, description, ingredients, rituals and god involved. You don't ask for Quetzalcoatl to help you and offer him human sacrifice (he was very much against it).

Also the curses are very different, some hilarious while others horryfing.

As for recluting Pundies help... I don't have the money to pay him so...

Reckall · March 31, 2021, 04:47:16 PM

I think that GURPS can help you. It has a whole chapter devoted to Magic.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Aztecs/

GURPS Thaumatology looks at magic from "outside". Basically, is a guide to either create your magic system or to enhance an existing one.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/thaumatology/

A thread about "GURPS Mesoamerica" on SJ Games forum suggests both books.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=167635

Last, but not least, D&D BECMI "Hollow World" had strong Mesoamerican influences. The first adventure was "Aztec-centered" and, when I ran it, it was a masterpiece.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17168/Hollow-World-Campaign-Setting-Basic
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17148/HWR1-Sons-of-Azca-Basic?src=also_purchased
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17146/HWA1-Nightwail-Basic?src=also_purchased

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2021, 05:37:49 PM

Quote from: Reckall on March 31, 2021, 04:47:16 PM
I think that GURPS can help you. It has a whole chapter devoted to Magic.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Aztecs/

GURPS Thaumatology looks at magic from "outside". Basically, is a guide to either create your magic system or to enhance an existing one.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/thaumatology/

A thread about "GURPS Mesoamerica" on SJ Games forum suggests both books.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=167635

Last, but not least, D&D BECMI "Hollow World" had strong Mesoamerican influences. The first adventure was "Aztec-centered" and, when I ran it, it was a masterpiece.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17168/Hollow-World-Campaign-Setting-Basic
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17148/HWR1-Sons-of-Azca-Basic?src=also_purchased
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17146/HWA1-Nightwail-Basic?src=also_purchased

THANKS! It will help with the research.

GeekyBugle · April 01, 2021, 01:50:11 AM

#HotTake, #OSR #TTRPG Sons of Azca, Hollow World & Maztica are badly re-skinned D&D stuff, GURPS Aztecs, d20 Aztecs aren't much better, although GURPS has a lot of accurate stuff, but the magic is the same exact shit.

Guess it was fate that I decided to undertake this challenge.

jhkim · April 01, 2021, 07:38:43 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 01, 2021, 01:50:11 AM
#HotTake, #OSR #TTRPG Sons of Azca, Hollow World & Maztica are badly re-skinned D&D stuff, GURPS Aztecs, d20 Aztecs aren't much better, although GURPS has a lot of accurate stuff, but the magic is the same exact shit.

Guess it was fate that I decided to undertake this challenge.

I thought Maztica suffered because it wasn't really clear what it was doing. It used mostly existing D&D rules - which was intended to make things more familiar, but there was also a ton of details about the setting that made it hard to get into - so the familiarity of the rules wasn't very helpful. I thought GURPS Aztecs punted some on the magic by not having a completely new magic system, but the parts they wrote in seemed good. The main problem was that they didn't want to use up much new page count.

The big question for me is if you're doing a game that isn't re-skinned D&D, how can it be accessible for players who don't know much about Mesoamerican myth and culture?

GeekyBugle · April 02, 2021, 12:07:14 AM

Quote from: jhkim on April 01, 2021, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 01, 2021, 01:50:11 AM
#HotTake, #OSR #TTRPG Sons of Azca, Hollow World & Maztica are badly re-skinned D&D stuff, GURPS Aztecs, d20 Aztecs aren't much better, although GURPS has a lot of accurate stuff, but the magic is the same exact shit.

Guess it was fate that I decided to undertake this challenge.

I thought Maztica suffered because it wasn't really clear what it was doing. It used mostly existing D&D rules - which was intended to make things more familiar, but there was also a ton of details about the setting that made it hard to get into - so the familiarity of the rules wasn't very helpful. I thought GURPS Aztecs punted some on the magic by not having a completely new magic system, but the parts they wrote in seemed good. The main problem was that they didn't want to use up much new page count.

The big question for me is if you're doing a game that isn't re-skinned D&D, how can it be accessible for players who don't know much about Mesoamerican myth and culture?

Who said it's not based upon D&D?

Agreed on the Maztica and other D&D products, too generic, same magic spells and magic system.

Agreed again on GURPS Aztecs, the historical/mythological part they got down to a T, fumbled the ball horribly by not making a unique magic system.

Take a gander to this:

You're very familiar with this spell, modified enough to add the flavor of the setting. And the magic system isn't the same as D&D either.

Jaeger · April 02, 2021, 08:12:38 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 12:30:05 AM
What would you rather see:
...

Aztec/Mayan priests were nothing like the Christian inspired cleric, they might be priests of one God, doesn't mean they didn't pray to the other gods, just that they only officiated in the temple of "their" God.

Same thing holds true for the MU, call it Shaman, Nahual, Sorcerer.

...

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 12:24:13 PM

The Maztica setting for 2nd ed.....

It was too much fantasy, meaning you can not recognize shit, many of the spells are re-skined, and the amulet ones would need to read again but IIRC were also re-skined spells to include the amulet.

But thanks for the recommendation will read it again to see what I like.

The issue I see with an Aztec/Mayan RPG is that if you are not going to reskin the lore and leave it largely still recognizable as Aztec/Mayan, How do you get around the fact that these cultures religions were Horrifically Evil?

And if their religion is literally mass human sacrifice is ok straight-up evil - their cultural mores and values are not too far behind.

Being 'True' to the Aztec/Mayan cultures makes it very hard for it to be anything but 'Evil' campaign play by default.

GeekyBugle · April 02, 2021, 09:15:43 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on April 02, 2021, 08:12:38 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 12:30:05 AM
What would you rather see:
...

Aztec/Mayan priests were nothing like the Christian inspired cleric, they might be priests of one God, doesn't mean they didn't pray to the other gods, just that they only officiated in the temple of "their" God.

Same thing holds true for the MU, call it Shaman, Nahual, Sorcerer.

...

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 12:24:13 PM

The Maztica setting for 2nd ed.....

It was too much fantasy, meaning you can not recognize shit, many of the spells are re-skined, and the amulet ones would need to read again but IIRC were also re-skined spells to include the amulet.

But thanks for the recommendation will read it again to see what I like.

The issue I see with an Aztec/Mayan RPG is that if you are not going to reskin the lore and leave it largely still recognizable as Aztec/Mayan, How do you get around the fact that these cultures religions were Horrifically Evil?

And if their religion is literally mass human sacrifice is ok straight-up evil - their cultural mores and values are not too far behind.

Being 'True' to the Aztec/Mayan cultures makes it very hard for it to be anything but 'Evil' campaign play by default.

Thst's the crux of the issue, how to have good PCs in such an environment, think I came up with a solution for the conundrum, it might not work tho, but I believe it will.

And without turning the historical cultures into saints too.