As a DM I'm a bit torn on this. I like detailed stat blocks for the monsters in an adventure, but I hate flipping to the back of the book and scanning through an alphabetical appendix to find them.

On the other hand, I don't much like them in the area description either. They take up a lot of room and don't contribute much to the text. Some adventure writers strive (uselessly IMO) to make a compramise - they'll put just the hit points of the monsters in the area description, and the rest of the stats in the appendix.

I like teh 1st and 2nd ed versions better. Hit points in the description, monster stats at the end IN MONSTER MANUAL FORMAT. It's so easy to view your critter's stats in MM format.

:mad:

I'd like to have them on seperate sheets so I can copy/tear out the pages and put them next to the adventure text, or the initiative list, or what have you.

However, since I often change monster stats (even if a lot of changes are small), and make my own write-ups, I prefer them at the end where i don't get confused by them.

Quote from: TrainzI like teh 1st and 2nd ed versions better. Hit points in the description, monster stats at the end IN MONSTER MANUAL FORMAT. It's so easy to view your critter's stats in MM format.

:mad:

Oh, yeah. That's another reason why I write my own. I can put them into a real stat-block and not some kind of quickie stats.

Quote from: TrainzI like teh 1st and 2nd ed versions better. Hit points in the description, monster stats at the end IN MONSTER MANUAL FORMAT. It's so easy to view your critter's stats in MM format.

:mad:

Monster manual format, how I love thee... Companies are reluctant to publish books with it, though, since one page monster descriptions for every monster in the adventure add a great many pages to the product.

Pagecount isn't so much a problem with electronic products, thankfully.

It seems like the "full stats on a separate sheet" is the best way to go.  I always keep my monsters / NPCs statted on an handy-dandy reference sheet when I GM.  I hate referring to books / PDFs during play.

I do the "Threat Profiles" booklet. That way you have it right there, with the encounter number listed, as well as easily able to change them. :-)

I think one addition many "stats in back" adventures could use is page callouts in the encounter text. "The statistics for these creatures are located on page 45."

I want them with the encounter - or better yet I am really liking the dungeon delve format.

I'd love it if adventures came with a tear-out booklet containing the monster stats, maybe even with multiple HP tracks. Alternately, maybe including a CD with adventures that contained pdfs of monster stat blocks and maybe HP track sheets. At the very least a webpage where monster statblocks and HP tracks could be print/DLed.

Quote from: SigmundI'd love it if adventures came with a tear-out booklet containing the monster stats, maybe even with multiple HP tracks. Alternately, maybe including a CD with adventures that contained pdfs of monster stat blocks and maybe HP track sheets. At the very least a webpage where monster statblocks and HP tracks could be print/DLed.

Ditto. For adventures that don't feature this, I always spend some time beforehand generating stats for the monsters and print them out, in order to have them in a convenient place. I used to use the MM format for these statblocks, but nowadays I use the DMG2 statblock.

Quote from: the ultimate nullifierI want them with the encounter - or better yet I am really liking the dungeon delve format.

That's an interesting format. But I'm at a loss as to how to put the amount of information I'm writing in an encounter description on that page.

(spoilers for my game, if my players are reading, I'd prefer they stop, unless the want the beginning of the next adventure ruined for them)



"Salamanders" are members of a secret organization ("Secret Society of the Blue Salamander") that the party has been harassing for some time, not the fiery monsters.

QuoteThe night is passing quietly, and the sky is clear, revealing a multitude of stars. The only noise is the fire crackling, and the deep breathing of your sleeping companions.
In an instant, that all changes.
You hear the familiar popping sound of people teleporting, followed immediately by a hail of arrows from all directions and the sound of somebody casting a spell.

There is little time to react, though the popping of the teleport spells will prevent any sentries from being caught flat-footed. Initiative should be rolled, with no surprise round. Sleeping PCs will wake up and be able to act next round, though chances are some of them will be caught without armor. You should remind them that their possessions are probably next to their bedrolls, so most of them will probably have to spend an additional round donning their packs or belts so they can have their equipment at hand should they need it. Those who just want to grab a weapon and leap into the fray can “equip” themselves as a move action. Donning armor follows the rules in the Player’s Handbook (page ##).

Each of the ambushers has prepared for the fight by casting Greater Invisibility (from scrolls using Use Magic Device) on himself and drinking a potion of Barkskin. Then they Teleported directly from the Teleportation Room (Area ##) to the PC’s camp. At the time of the ambush, the Invisibility spells have 5 rounds remaining, and the Barkskin potions will last 30 minutes. The statistics given include the Barkskin potions.

The Salamanders are not fools, and will take full advantage of their invisibility to make constant sneak attacks against the party (remember that PCs are denied their dexterity bonus against invisible opponents). They appear in a semicircle around the camp, and move after each standard action to prevent being easily located. They will fire at prone and unarmored PCs first, then concentrate on obvious spellcasters – particularly clerics. After the invisibility wears off, the Salamanders will make do with the concealment offered by remaining between 30’ and 60’ away from the fire – in the area of shadowy illumination (20% miss chance). They will attempt to hide, since the shadowy illumination provides concealment, and then sneak attack the following round (remember that characters with low-light vision can see perfectly well in shadowy illumination, and the Salamanders will not be hidden from them). The rogues will engage in melee only reluctantly (they have no illusions about their ability to soak up damage), and will be constantly on the lookout for ways to retreat back to missile range. They will hide and drink their potions of cure moderate wounds if brought to below 15 hit points.

The lead Salamander is a cleric/sorcerer, and starts the encounter by casting Prayer (this is the spell the PCs hear being cast as the ambush begins). The spells he casts subsequently will depend on the ebb and flow of the battle, but he will favor damage-dealing attack spells (see stat block for detailed spell list). He will use his wand of pyrotechnics on the campfire if he deems it strategically appropriate. He was once a good cleric (DM should choose appropriate chaotic good deity) and was tricked by the Salamanders into donning the helm of opposite alignment he currently wears. He currently owes devotion to no god. He is high enough rank to have a necklace of adaptation, which allows him to breathe the environment at the Complex without penalty. When one of his allies falls, he will, if possible, cast Animate Dead on the body (statistics for such a skeleton are provided below). (For purposes of making this fight a bit tougher, this skeleton is given as a 7 hit die undead. By the rules, it should only be 2 hit dice. Chances are, the players won’t notice or care.)

The Salamanders are Dominated, and this will show up with a Detect Magic spell (along with the auras for Greater Invisibility, Barkskin, Prayer, and any other spell that happens to be cast on them). Clever PCs will consider this a clue. Since they are under mental control, they will not surrender and will attempt to fight to the death. If somehow captured and the domination removed, they can reveal information about the Outer Complex only, and detailed information about the West Wing, where they spent most of their time. They simply refuse to believe any attempt to convince them that they were being controlled, and have no idea that their organization is actually run by Mind Flayers. Convincing them to reveal information about the complex requires a diplomacy check (DC 35) or an intimidate or bluff check (DC 30). Modifiers up to +5 can be given to these checks for convincing arguments or good role playing.

Then, in the back, are stat blocks for "Blue Salamander Rogue," "Blue Salamander cleric/sorcerer," and "Blue Salamander Rogue Skeleton."

This clearly could use a bit of rewriting and organization, since combat tactics for the opponents are mixed haphazardly together with their histories and generic information. But my point is the sheer quantity of information I'm trying to present. I don't see any way to put this in the Dungeon Delve format, which seems optimized for the "kick in the door, kill the monster, loot the room" style of play.

As an aside I like that Dungeon Delve format (at least for conventions and dungeon crawls) but I noticed on Room 7 it mentions the Red Slaad tactics.

As "....use their stunning croak until one or none of the PCs are left. Then use coup de grace on stunned PCs or melee active PCs as you see fit."

You can't use coup de grace on stunned PCs can you? They are only stunned (no Dex bonus) not helpless (Dex treated as 0)?