Quote from: S'mon;1133451I don't think kicking Koebel when the SJWs are kicking Koebel is an anti-SJW move. I'd say consistently opposing SJW tactics (including "kill yourself now" from anonymous trolls, which also comes from 4chan goons) is both morally and practically right.

For that matter, if a guy I like were a creep, I'd condemn them just as I condemn Koebel. High profile non-SJWs are rarely creeps IME, but if say Venger Satanis raped a PC in some game he was streaming (which I doubt he would) I wouldn't let my liking for Venger stop me condemning him. But I wouldn't tell him he should kill himself either.

No one's arguing about condemning. Condemn all you want and accept they can condemn you. But Koebel and company's M.O. is to go after your employer or advertisers and destroy your ability to earn a living and drive you off Twitter and Facebook and Paypal. So you'll be condemning them to audience of zero from your empty studio apartment while they're laughing and going about their business.

As for death threats, EVERYONE talking politics under theit real name gets death threats. EVERYONE gets "go kill yourself" and maybe even "I'll kill you." Shouldn't be allowed. But for Christ's sake those are NOT real threats. It's tool #39 for sjw's to cry and absolve themselves while the death threats -- and literal violence like shooting of Paul Rand -- against the right are ignored or mocked by the media.

My two cents.

I'm not joining in kicking him while he's down, I don't agree he should be cancelled (anyone for that mater), I also wouldn't pee on him if he was on fire. Live by the mob, die by the mob.

Sadly the only way the mob will stop is when enough people stand up to them, and even sadder this will only happen when they themselves have to live under the rules they wish to impose unto others.

Also IMHO " go kill yourself" is the same as "go fuck yourself".

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1133434The man looks like he landed in 12 different countercultures at once, and hasn't taken a bath to wash it off since.

I always chuckle that people like this that try to make themselves look as UGLY as possible in real life want cutesy avatars.

  No shit.  The guy is serious mash up.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1133457Also IMHO " go kill yourself" is the same as "go fuck yourself".

Yup. I heard the term a 'Threatoid'. It's not a threat, but aggressive verbiage.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1133459Yup. I heard the term a 'Threatoid'. It's not a threat, but aggressive verbiage.

Agreed, it's telling someone off.

What galls me is they actually stayed till the end of the game of the live-stream.  So offended and uncomfortable but instead of signing off, they stay to the bitter end as apparently plugging one's stream channel takes precedence.  Weak and pathetic display by all participants involved.

To burn him later under the cover of the mob justice mentality is so Machiavellian and a nice example of passive aggressive behavior.  If it bothered anyone in the session so much, just voice it and/or disconnect from the game, rather than act all hurt after the fact.

Koebel is being an idiot but misinterprets the reactions as none of the players acts like an adult to straight out tell him what they were thinking:  He ends up going on thinking it's just a funny cringe moment for all involved.  The players are as much at fault as they give him enough rope to hang himself.  Dumb move on his part but too bad his compatriots didn't help him avoid digging his own grave as it was live.  Nice friends indeed.

Quote from: DickFeynman;1133450Again, Golden Rule.

If the ideological opponent does NOT try to deplatform others, then I agree not to deplatform them.This was 95% of Democrats prior to 2015. But if they DO engage in deplatforming like Koebel, there's absolutely nothing noble about turning the cheek while they crush everyone on your side. It's just weakness once they've decided THEY are not going to debate.

"I don't believe in retaliation," said the Jew kneeling meekly in front of the trench seconds before the Nazi blew his head off.

I dunno, man. Godwin's Law is long dead, but while I see your point that it's important to stand and fight, I think it's still worth debating the tactics and insisting on doing the best, right thing. I want an end to cancel culture being effective in destroying people's lives. I hope words and ideas will be enough to win. I know that it won't be if we give up now.

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies;1133510What galls me is they actually stayed till the end of the game of the live-stream.  So offended and uncomfortable but instead of signing off, they stay to the bitter end as apparently plugging one's stream channel takes precedence.  Weak and pathetic display by all participants involved.

Yup. I dont find the guy singularly as toxic as the entire environment. Everybody is a potential enemy so nobody is a friend. Your only true friend is the movement, but its also the thing that ruins your life the most.

Quote from: DickFeynman;1133405When the far leftist never offers you a second chance while you offer him one, guess who goes extinct. You'll be muttering 'muh principles' as he leads you to the guillotine.

This is an inconvenient and uncomfortable truth.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1133561This is an inconvenient and uncomfortable truth.

I would disagree. In my opinion instead of compromising your principles, your principles should take into account reality to a certain degree.

I really like Starship Troopers for this for instance. I really acknowledges that you can dance all the fancy dances around the idea of democracy all you like: Reality is still ruled by force, and by participating in democracy, you are still using force.

Thats not to say democracy is bad, or selective speech enforcement is good. Its that while principles of pacifism can be....somewhat amicable, I don't think they are good for the world.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1133594I would disagree. In my opinion instead of compromising your principles, your principles should take into account reality to a certain degree.

I really like Starship Troopers for this for instance. I really acknowledges that you can dance all the fancy dances around the idea of democracy all you like: Reality is still ruled by force, and by participating in democracy, you are still using force.

Thats not to say democracy is bad, or selective speech enforcement is good. Its that while principles of pacifism can be....somewhat amicable, I don't think they are good for the world.

Starship Troopers - the novel - is a damn good story and one of my all time favorites. It is also piss-poor philosophy, as is any fiction whatever the quality of the story or its telling.

Quote from: RandyB;1133601Starship Troopers - the novel - is a damn good story and one of my all time favorites. It is also piss-poor philosophy, as is any fiction whatever the quality of the story or its telling.

It's "piss-poor" because WE as a species have piss-poor people that create the necessity for such a philosophy to emerge.

The quote from G. Michael Hopf that gets tossed around a lot lately "Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." is a granular examination of "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it".

And civilization doesn't exist in a vaccum, it's a continuity. The structures that allow for civilization to exist at ALL are not magical. It requires work from people that essentially are increasingly selfless as a *profession* vs. those that armchair the "shoulds" and "oughts" from the comfort of their immediate surroundings with no perceived commitment to the system.

Having principles is one thing. Acting on them is another. Sacrificing yourself for them is even more refined and rare. Pretending to have them and not understanding what they mean - painfully commonplace

Quote from: tenbones;1133609It's "piss-poor" because WE as a species have piss-poor people that create the necessity for such a philosophy to emerge.

The quote from G. Michael Hopf that gets tossed around a lot lately "Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." is a granular examination of "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it".

And civilization doesn't exist in a vaccum, it's a continuity. The structures that allow for civilization to exist at ALL are not magical. It requires work from people that essentially are increasingly selfless as a *profession* vs. those that armchair the "shoulds" and "oughts" from the comfort of their immediate surroundings with no perceived commitment to the system.

Having principles is one thing. Acting on them is another. Sacrificing yourself for them is even more refined and rare. Pretending to have them and not understanding what they mean - painfully commonplace

That's the necessity for good philosophy, and I agree with your argument. Looking to fiction for that philosophy is a major category error akin to looking to a philosopher for cultural anthropology, or to a journalist for anything other than propaganda.

Quote from: RandyB;1133613That's the necessity for good philosophy, and I agree with your argument. Looking to fiction for that philosophy is a major category error akin to looking to a philosopher for cultural anthropology, or to a journalist for anything other than propaganda.

Greetings!

I agree, my friend. Look how pathetically stupid and dumbed down our whole society has become. There was a time in this country where we revered the Bible; great philosophers of the enlightenment; the classical philosophers of Greece and Rome.

Now we get our inspiration from celebrities, criminals, rebels, and CNN.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: RandyB;1133613That's the necessity for good philosophy, and I agree with your argument. Looking to fiction for that philosophy is a major category error akin to looking to a philosopher for cultural anthropology, or to a journalist for anything other than propaganda.

Good fiction *should* provoke discussion in the presentation of an idea or philosophy. It's fine to look at fiction to give a consumer a nudge towards digging into the formal study of that idea. I think Heinlein is *superb* for that. But yes, you shouldn't take fiction as the sole-authority on the topic. Anymore than you should take Ayn Rand's Objectivism only from Atlas Shrugged or Fountainhead... rather than getting deep into the real discussion about it which to no surprise are better served in other works by philosophers who took her ideas and ran with it (whether you agree/disagree with it is irrelevant - it's the idea of philosophy as the verbal/mental iterative process as tech-nerds call it, as the key.).

So yep. Fiction can serve as a start.

I think philosophy has a stronger connection historically to cultural anthropology than journalism does to anything outside of propaganda. Most major philosophers (and therefore philosophies) have threads of continuity that are absolutely the product of cultural anthropological interests. You don't have the rise of Post-Socratic Hellenic ideas traversing the globe without the Greek conquests, and the same from the East with Buddhists making it to Rome itself, or travelling from India to China and eventually to Japan, where each culture tweaked it in its own way, yet maintained its philosophical precepts largely intact. The largest differences being directly attributable to the cultures they passed through themselves.

Here in America? We've completely deracinated ourselves by warping our history by poisoning our systems (zero civics teaching in k-12 worth a damn) to fit this fucked up narrative that is really a neo-Marxist retread designed to undermine our culture. And lo and behold, the weak leaders and weak people bending the knee to this ideology make themselves boldly known. People like Adam Koebel is representative of that. He doesn't realize cognitively he is the shitty-person he pretends to be performatively *against* all while performatively apologizing for actions that he probably doesn't understand isn't really a big deal, to normal people, but it is in the pool of shit he helped create.

Welcome to Hard Times everyone. Better get yourselves ready.