Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1125520Actually, according to Reddit (whose trustworthiness depends on the particular sub), he posted no such apology and claimed no safety tools were even in place.

But I guess prefacing your statement with 'allegedly' excuses you from being held accountable for spreading bullshit.

LOL comments turned off on the youtube link. I guess no dissension allowed.

So finally got to watch Pundit's vid on this. Totally disagree with the silly assessment of Dungeon World, other the "Story telling game" part. I've been playing D&D since 1977, and DW in many ways simulates the way I have been running games all my life. Improv, fast and loose in a heroic fashion. During middle school and high school, this is exactly how we ran games during the school day, sans dice, or we used coins (shades  of Phil & Dixie).

It's just that in DW, the game facilitates and encourages that kind of play whereas with D&D or RW, I have to ignore a bunch of rules to run games successfully that way. Some of my favorite sessions of all time have been utilizing Dungeon World to run loose versions of U1, B3, and some OSR adventures.

Not all of us Grogs played/play RAW, with minis, grids, megadungeons, counting torches and the like. Where I grew up, that was actually pretty rare to see a game like that in the late 1970s. Into the Boom and Mentzer era, you saw some of that locally with the increase of Gaming stores,  but before that- it was all ToTM seat of the pants.

And fwiw, I'm definitely way right of people like Koebel.  :shrug:

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1125520Actually, according to Reddit (whose trustworthiness depends on the particular sub), he posted no such apology and claimed no safety tools were even in place.

But I guess prefacing your statement with 'allegedly' excuses you from being held accountable for spreading bullshit.

You're literally going to link a video from the dude himself that doesn't allow comments? Fake news. Also, looked this guy up, literal LOL. What the fuck, he looks like a caricature of an SJW. Pundit wasn't kidding.

Anyway, not surprised one bit some jackass like this is literally sexually harassing women, yet would call a normal dude hitting on a girl in a bar "sexual harassment". It's an embarrassment to normal men to claim he's a man.

My basic feeling about Dungeon World is summed up like this:

Ninjas & Superspies: A game where you pretend to be characters getting up to crazy martial arts adventure & gunplay.
Hong Kong Action Theater: A game where you pretend to be characters who are actors pretending to be characters getting up to crazy martial arts adventure & gunplay.

Dungeons & Dragons: A game where you pretend to be characters getting into all kinds of fantasy adventure hijinks.
Dungeon World: A game where you pretend to be playing Dungeons & Dragons pretending to be characters getting into all kinds of fantasy adventure hijinks.

In both the HKAT & DW scenarios, I don't see what the intermediating bit does to improve things. It just seems like a less vital thing where you evoke some tropes and chuckle because they bring back a faded memory of how cool it was to experience or do the thing more directly.

Everytime I see someone put DW I have to stop and correct myself because I'm seeing Dragon Warriors and not Dungeon World. I have the same issue with PF, where I think Palladium Fantasy and not Pathfinder.

I did try to watch the offending Adam Koebel video but honestly I find it very hard to engage with actual play videos even supposedly famous ones like Crucial Roll.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1125520Actually, according to Reddit (whose trustworthiness depends on the particular sub), he posted no such apology and claimed no safety tools were even in place.

But I guess prefacing your statement with 'allegedly' excuses you from being held accountable for spreading bullshit.

Spreading bullshit??? Here is the Reddit link.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/comments/ftvdp5/adam_koebel_dungeon_worlds_far_verona_stream/

And just in case the post vanishes, here's the Reddit post (my bold)

Adam Koebel's Far Verona livestream AP has been canceled after all of his players quit, in response to a scene last week where one of their characters was sexually assaulted in a scene Koebel laughed the entire time he ran it. He's since posted an "apology" video where he assigns the blame not to him for running it, but for the group as a whole for not utilizing safety tools. He's also said nothing on Twitter, his largest platform, where folks are understandably animated about it.
1.1k points 877 comments

And I don't trust ANY sub on Reddit. Their Noise to Signal ratio is shit overall. That's why I said "ALLEGEDLY" because I cannot vouch for what any Redditor posts.

Quote from: Melan;1125521I am entirely surprised by this development.

...Are you surprised, too?

........



Every. Single. Time. Like clockwork.

Yeah, every time anything like this happens a bunch of randos pop up with "Hur-dur I knew it the whole time". It's like an inconstant mother flip-flopping on a child's ex with a "I never liked them anyway!"

Quote from: Trinculoisdead;1125563Yeah, every time anything like this happens a bunch of randos pop up with "Hur-dur I knew it the whole time". It's like an inconstant mother flip-flopping on a child's ex with a "I never liked them anyway!"

Yeah, we all actually loved & admired Koebel until this SHOCKING REVELATION!!!!!

I don't like a lot of his views about gender and race and such in ttrpgs, but he's put out a ton of quality content up on his Youtube that has been invaluable to me in learning new systems.

I'm not surprised to hear that he's not popular on here, because of his views, but what I'm talking about are the angry mob over on Reddit. A little bit of their vitriol has spilled over into here as well it would seem.

I believe in separating CREATION from CREATOR. I'm happy to discuss the pros/cons of DungeonWorld without any concern about Kno-balls actions, beliefs or opinions on anything.

As for SJWs turning out to be freaks like clockwork, its both odd and yet its to be expected. It's another 80s throwback. Remember when TV evangelists were getting caught being perverts, cokeheads and/or embezzlers? That's the nature of the Loud Virtue Signaler. Those who preach their perfection the loudest often turn out to be those with most ego driven creepiness.

Quote from: Trinculoisdead;1125565I don't like a lot of his views about gender and race and such in ttrpgs, but he's put out a ton of quality content up on his Youtube that has been invaluable to me in learning new systems.

I'm not surprised to hear that he's not popular on here, because of his views, but what I'm talking about are the angry mob over on Reddit. A little bit of their vitriol has spilled over into here as well it would seem.

Eh. I've played Dungeon World. It was fine; derivative, but what isn't? I've seen Koebel on twitter (he gets retweeted by some of my follows) and he seems like a pretty boiler plate left-leaning game designer. He never struck me as a creep.

Honestly, even after watching the video on which all this hubbub is centered: he still doesn't. He strikes me as tone-deaf and vain. Which is pretty consistent with what little I know of the man.

I don't feel that this blunder reveals some deep darkness about him. Nor would it invalidate anything insightful or useful he's ever said or done (the nefarious Zack Smith has great advice for building and running games, although he's at least a terrible asshole and at most a serial rapist).

But, as far as the reaction: the usual suspects are having the expected reaction. What else? I don't anticipate deep responses from those who respond to all news through the powerful filters of their political leanings and emotional reaction.

He's pretty good.

Just to summarize what happened:
* He has a group of players. Koebel's style is to try and delve into player emotions and psychological states. If you have some phobia or whatever he wants to explore your feelings. So I'm not surprised this happened eventually.
* One player was sexually assaulted once, and through her character wanted to "learn how to say no to her friends and others" more.
* She got put in a situation where her character got raped by an NPC friend.

I have no idea what made him think "this is a good idea" except that maybe somehow he thought he was presenting her a situation with which she could "say no" and have a character development moment, or something. But instead it just creeped everyone out.

Generally though I love his stuff. DW is one of my favorite games and his videos are all nice to watch, especially the analysis ones. He's very big on game design in the vein of the game being nothing more than what its rules encourage you to do. So it gives you an eye for designing rules to make sure they actually follow through on the fluff you want.

Quote from: Trinculoisdead;1125563Yeah, every time anything like this happens a bunch of randos pop up with "Hur-dur I knew it the whole time". It's like an inconstant mother flip-flopping on a child's ex with a "I never liked them anyway!"

Nah. There is  clear pattern: people who do a lot of moral grandstanding commonly prove to be massive phonies with skeletons in their closet (if not a full cemetery in the basement). The "family values" politico discovered with a small harem; the fire-and-brimstones preacher caught with a suspiciously young boy; the beloved philanthropist who steals from the community and treats his staff like dirt - it is a story for the ages. These are just the same hypocrites as the religious right, except with pink hair, and slightly less drugs and sodomy.

He may or may not have written great games/gaming advice - that's an art/artist thing.

You have to be a special kind of stupid to think Rape is a funny/fun thing to Roleplay through.

In-fact, why would you do a blow-by-blow RP of any sexual scene in an RPG session? Like that is not what anyone is there for.