This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: Aces & Eights: Alternate History?  (Read 1868 times)

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« on: May 14, 2009, 04:40:29 PM »
Not wanting to derail the other thread, I was curious as to what exactly constitutes the "alternate history" of the A&8s setting?  What's the point of divergence? what's the setting like at the theoretical campaign starting point?

Is it relatively believable, or is it full of ridiculous premises a la Deadlands (which, even with all the magic and shaman powers and steampunk stripped out, would still make no fucking sense as an AH?).

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

GameDaddy
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 08:15:23 PM »
It's an interesting alternate history setting with some definite possibilities.

The Civil war ended with a stalemate. The North settled for Kentucky, half of Tennessee, and Arkansas, with the South retaining the core of the South and Cuba joined the CSA. The Lone Star Republic of Texas, of course, is an Independent Country which annexed half of Louisiana. Native Americans were resettled into what is present day Oklahoma and formed an Independent country known as Sequoyah with the remainder of the conquered tribes of the East. Mexico has most of the West Coast except the gold country around San Francisco (Which is one of the United States known as the Republic of California), The Mormons have a state in Mexico known as Deseret, They supported the South in the Civil war, and were attacked by the Mexicans, and became, well... militant survivalists mostly hostile to outsiders.

Colorado is divided into three zones, Mexican, U.S. Northwest Territories, and Republic of Texas. I doubt the map boundaries in the book are even remotely accurate as the geography would make the defense of certain mountainous regions a certainty with even a small force. In any event the Northwest Territories are wide open spaces with groups from all factions and the Native Americans roaming in bands through the area, though the United States officially claims the "territories" and sends settlers there.

The games I have been interested in to date, are set earlier, even before Texas went Independent, right after the Spanish first settled New Mexico, before the Railroads (Iron Horses) arrived, and when the Spaniards were still working things out with the locals.

Oh, and the French kept Nouveau Orleans, making it a seedy haven for outlaws, smugglers, deserters from both the North and South, and a friendly port of call for Europeans in general.
Blackmoor grew from a single Castle to include, first, several adjacent Castles (with the forces of Evil lying just off the edge of the world to an entire Northern Province of the Castle and Crusade Society's Great Kingdom.

~ Dave Arneson

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 08:39:54 PM »
Oh, Christ. ANOTHER alternate wild west where the South didn't fall? Let me guess, they got rid of slavery anyways, and you can play a black Confederate officer or something? :rolleyes:

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

SunBoy

  • Intellectual Slapstick
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 08:57:22 PM »
Dude, what's your beef with Deadlands? It's a great game, IMO. Terribly funny.
"Real randomness, I've discovered, is the result of two or more role-players interacting"

Erick Wujcik, 2007

GameDaddy
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 09:42:28 PM »
Hrrrm?!! Uhh... No... The South kept their slaves. Least I didn't read anywhere in the core book history about the Southern emancipation.
I suppose you could play a Black French Officer, or a Black Spanish Officer, or a Black Union Officer, or a Black British Officer. But then again, there were officers like this during the real civil war anyway.

The Civil War in this alternate history actually took place from 1852-1855, and only ended in a truce with the direct Intervention of France on the Southern side (Hence Nouveau Orleans). technically, the war was still on, only being held in check by an indefinite pause until a peace treaty was signed in 1857 when the Democrats came into power.

Looking through this here, I'm not sure how Cuba ended up being Confederate though...

And hey, any Western game that includes head markings and coloration for horses, and leg markings and coloration as well as temperament and vices for horses is an automatic win. I learned how to ride on Wyoming bred Cutting Horses and can personally attest to the willfull disregard for the rider that these half broken horses display with a gusto.

A lot of the mechanics are worked out with a deck of cards, and poker chips. There's basic stats for a wide range of NPC's, You have reputation, fame, awards, profession paths, skills, and nice detailed illustrated examples of cattle drives.

Ranged combat is based on speed, and aiming. The shotgun clock game aid and some illustrations determine what you hit (if anything) when you miss, and of course determines shotgun blast patterns.

Even though I don't personally use it, the setting has possibilities, and the game itself is probably the Best Western RPG ever made.
Blackmoor grew from a single Castle to include, first, several adjacent Castles (with the forces of Evil lying just off the edge of the world to an entire Northern Province of the Castle and Crusade Society's Great Kingdom.

~ Dave Arneson

estar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10065
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2009, 01:00:45 AM »
Yes I remember rolling my eyes at the alternative west of Aces & Eights until I read it was an earlier Civil War that triggered the present situation. Never did read what was the exact Point of Departure.

Mark Plemmons

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 389
    • http://www.kenzerco.com
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2009, 09:58:01 AM »
One of the earliest changes is that Henry Clay (opposed to expansion) won the 1844 election instead of James K Polk (in favor of Manifest Destiny). Then, with the Civil War starting a decade before it did in our history, the North doesn't have as much infrastructure/resources in place as it did in our history 10 yrs later, so the South is able to fight to a stalemate.  

There were also several other factors besides that that affected the South's 'win' (e.g. Texas neutrality, the South getting French aid in exchange for New Orleans, etc.).  Even with a victory, the South is still very battered, poor, etc as it was in our history, though.  The occasional border skirmish still occurs here and there, I believe.  It's also a bit like the US/Russia Cold War with lots of opportunity for spying (as mentioned in our upcoming Trouble on the Sequoyah Star adventure).

Everything's based on stuff that could easily have happened in our world, but didn't, usually due to one or more persons in the government or military taking a different course of action (e.g. West Virginia is named Kanawha, and the South purchases Cuba).
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 10:07:22 AM by Mark Plemmons »
Want to play in a Korean War MASH unit? MASHED is now available! Powered by the Apocalypse.
____________________

You can also find my work in: Aces & Eights, Baker Street, Corporia[/URL], D&D comics, HackMaster, Knights of the Dinner Table, and more

estar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10065
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 12:08:10 PM »
Quote from: Mark Plemmons;302498
One of the earliest changes is that Henry Clay (opposed to expansion) won the 1844 election instead of James K Polk (in favor of Manifest Destiny). Then, with the Civil War starting a decade before it did in our history, the North doesn't have as much infrastructure/resources in place as it did in our history 10 yrs later, so the South is able to fight to a stalemate.  

So the Mexican War was butterflied away? I can see how the subsequent events would follow. So compromise of 1850 never happened and the unresolved issues exploded into Civil War two years later?

Did you explain how Texas was able to remain solvent? They were near bankruptcy when they were annexed by the United States. I know it may sound a bit detailed but actually would have large ramifications for how a independent Texas would operate. For example if the British bailed them out and Texas become little more than a British Protectorate then that makes a difference in types of plot and NPCs that would be created for Texans.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 12:10:16 PM by estar »

Idinsinuation

  • Metal
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 12:21:56 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;302391
Oh, Christ. ANOTHER alternate wild west where the South didn't fall? Let me guess, they got rid of slavery anyways, and you can play a black Confederate officer or something? :rolleyes:

RPGPundit


This was covered in the other thread actually.  The alternate history was created to create a Wild West that would remain Wild for a long time to come rather than die out, and slavery still exists.
"A thousand fathers killed, a thousand virgin daughters spread, with swords still wet, with swords still wet, with the blood of their dead." - Protest the Hero

Mark Plemmons

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 389
    • http://www.kenzerco.com
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 12:29:10 PM »
Quote from: estar;302520
So the Mexican War was butterflied away? I can see how the subsequent events would follow. So compromise of 1850 never happened and the unresolved issues exploded into Civil War two years later?

Did you explain how Texas was able to remain solvent? They were near bankruptcy when they were annexed by the United States. I know it may sound a bit detailed but actually would have large ramifications for how a independent Texas would operate. For example if the British bailed them out and Texas become little more than a British Protectorate then that makes a difference in types of plot and NPCs that would be created for Texans.


I didn't write the history section, and I'm not personally familiar with the details of the Mexican War, so I can't answer that question in detail.  There's about eight pages of info on the history of Texas and Mexico if you check out the book.
Want to play in a Korean War MASH unit? MASHED is now available! Powered by the Apocalypse.
____________________

You can also find my work in: Aces & Eights, Baker Street, Corporia[/URL], D&D comics, HackMaster, Knights of the Dinner Table, and more

Akrasia

  • Old One
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3353
    • http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 01:13:16 PM »
The A&8 alternate history actually sounds pretty cool.

I wonder how fares Canada, er, British North America, in this timeline?
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school 'swords & sorcery'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

pspahn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1639
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2009, 02:08:15 PM »
Quote from: Idinsinuation;302523
The alternate history was created to create a Wild West that would remain Wild for a long time to come rather than die out,


How long do you need it to last?  Every decent Old West campaign I've run has been much more day to day than any other campaign except maybe D&D.  It lakes a loooong time to play out a single year so the 1830s to 1890s is a pretty long time, unless you have a lot of downtime, which seems kind of counterproductive in an Old West game (of course, I run my games more movie-esque Old West though, so that might be the difference).  

Pete
Small Niche Games
Also check the WWII: Operation WhiteBox Community on Google+

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 07:18:28 PM »
Quote from: SunBoy;302399
Dude, what's your beef with Deadlands? It's a great game, IMO. Terribly funny.

Deadlands is a FUN game, I don't know if I'd call it "funny".
But it really fails utterly to stand up as alternate history.
At least it has the "supernatural powers did it" excuse for that fact, though. I assume Aces & Eights does not?

Also, Deadlands totally whitewashes southern racism and slavery just because the authors clearly thought that the confederacy was "really cool".


RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 07:24:45 PM »
Quote from: Mark Plemmons;302498
One of the earliest changes is that Henry Clay (opposed to expansion) won the 1844 election instead of James K Polk (in favor of Manifest Destiny). Then, with the Civil War starting a decade before it did in our history, the North doesn't have as much infrastructure/resources in place as it did in our history 10 yrs later, so the South is able to fight to a stalemate.  

There were also several other factors besides that that affected the South's 'win' (e.g. Texas neutrality, the South getting French aid in exchange for New Orleans, etc.).  Even with a victory, the South is still very battered, poor, etc as it was in our history, though.  The occasional border skirmish still occurs here and there, I believe.  It's also a bit like the US/Russia Cold War with lots of opportunity for spying (as mentioned in our upcoming Trouble on the Sequoyah Star adventure).

Everything's based on stuff that could easily have happened in our world, but didn't, usually due to one or more persons in the government or military taking a different course of action (e.g. West Virginia is named Kanawha, and the South purchases Cuba).


Ok, I will say that this is heads and tails more credible that many of the other premises I've seen.
A combination of "slower western expansion" plus "less industrialized north" plus "War starts earlier" would definitely create a much likelier scenario where the war would end in stalemate, at least for a time.

What is the starting date of the campaign? What year is it?

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Aces & Eights: Alternate History?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 07:25:58 PM »
Quote from: Idinsinuation;302523
This was covered in the other thread actually.  The alternate history was created to create a Wild West that would remain Wild for a long time to come rather than die out, and slavery still exists.


Yes, that was said, but I wanted more specific details about HOW.

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.