For me, DR all the way.

Quote from: enelsonWhat I like about AC (D&D) and AR (Palladium)

I'm sorry, but I don't know Palladium (is it my imagination, or is Palladium way, way more popular in America than in Europe?). Could anybody explain how armor works in Palladium?

QuoteOne variant of DR I prefer is random DR (ala Stormbringer 1st ed). There was something cool about rolling a d10+2 (Plate+Helm) against an opponent's Lormyrian Axe (2d6?). I did not enjoy straight DR (Runequest) quite as much.

I haven't got any problem with fixed DR, but you're right, there's something special in rolling for DR, a la Stormbringer.

Quote from: SosthenesAnother option is the RoleMaster system, where different armor has different table entries for hits and criticals.

Rolemaster, yay! I like the fact that the better the armor, the more often you're hit but the less serious wounds are.

QuoteSadly HARP went another way with armor just adding to the defensive bonus.

I didn't like it either. At first, I consoled myself from the idea that I could plug Arms Law without any effort. Unfortunately, I see problems with using the magical attack tables of Rolemaster with HARP.

And I like the Burning Wheel way too, roll for armor, all or nothing. Not so much as I like DR or Rolemaster armor classes, but it's OK.

Quote from: J ArcaneHonestly, from a realism standpoint, I've always been more happy with a combination of both, like GURPS3's PD/DR

I hated GURPS 3rd's PD/DR. I liked the idea, but the implementation was weak, in my opinion.

Quote from: ClaudiusI'm sorry, but I don't know Palladium (is it my imagination, or is Palladium way, way more popular in America than in Europe?). Could anybody explain how armor works in Palladium?
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The primary thing in Palladium is that Armor is ablative. It's extra Hit Points.  There is a subsystem called 'AR' that is often ignored, in some Palladium games it's all but abscent (Rifts, for example). AR is how likely the armor is to take the hit for you, and is rated on a 1-20 scale.  You use the attack roll to determine if the hit goes to armor or bare skin, essentially.  It puts a lot of weight into that one roll, as the attack roll is also the difficulty of parrying or dodging.

Quote from: ClaudiusRolemaster, yay! I like the fact that the better the armor, the more often you're hit but the less serious wounds are.

The table-driven nature of Rolemaster made this very easy. This nicely creates a distinction between the fighters who avoid getting hit altogether and those who just take it...

I've seen this in other RPGs, too, mostly by armor rules that give some defense penalty but provide DR. Although some of the writers clearly seem to overestimate the encumbring effects of armor. Full plate didn't exactly make you that much slower to react. Still, if you take a  hit with a particularly  strong piece of armor, the borders between parrying and just taking the hit blur a little.

Quote from: ClaudiusI didn't like it either. At first, I consoled myself from the idea that I could plug Arms Law without any effort. Unfortunately, I see problems with using the magical attack tables of Rolemaster with HARP.

Isn't there a more involved combat system for HARP?

Much like J Arcane, I like it both ways.

Hey, quit laugh-- oh, wait, hold on.

Much like J Arcane, I like the idea of armor doing both: making my vitals harder to hit and soaking up the force of the blow.

However, I can totally get behind, say, D&D's AC-makes-me-harder-to-hit idea, if I think of it this way: AC only makes it harder for my foe's hits to actually matter, and he can stand there and hit my plate mail all day long, but he's hitting my platemail.  Not, yu know, my precious, precious spleen.

And the damage is reduced by the very damage roll itself.  He might roll full damage, meaning that he got past my armor and really put the hurt on me...or he might roll, like, a 1, meaning that his strike was an inconvenience at most.  

Ta-daaah!  Logic (of a sort)!

There seems to be a lot of love for DR. May I ask why? Is it because DR seems more realistic?

As to the AR question earlier...In Palladium, you need to roll a 5 or greater on a d20 to hit. If you roll between 5 and the armor's AR, you hit the armor and damage it. If you roll above the armor's AR, you bypassed the armor and hit the defender. AR is basically AC with armor taking damage if you "miss".

Quote from: enelsonThere seems to be a lot of love for DR. May I ask why? Is it because DR seems more realistic?

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I think it comes from the odd dichotomy of 'hit/not hit'. Never mind the fact that if the primary means of getting 'not hit' is heavy armor it makes recreating a samurai showdown in a bath-house problematic. If the guy is fighting off ninja's with his sword in one hand and a bathtowel clutched around his waist in the other in D&D style AC rules he's probably bloody meat...

The main thing about Burning Wheel that I like is there armour. It either defends or it doesn't. You roll d6's equal to your armour value and on even 1 success (a roll of 4,5, or 6) the armour absorbs all the damage. I use it in my Fudge game even.

Quote from: Jason CoplenThe main thing about Burning Wheel that I like is there armour. It either defends or it doesn't. You roll d6's equal to your armour value and on even 1 success (a roll of 4,5, or 6) the armour absorbs all the damage. I use it in my Fudge game even.

Does this make combat's run longer since all damage is soaked by the armor or are combat's speedy affairs?

Quote from: enelsonDoes this make combat's run longer since all damage is soaked by the armor or are combat's speedy affairs?

If you mean "Does combat last longer because of the additional roll?", then yes, there's an additional roll.

If you mean "Does combat last longer because it's difficult to harm people when they're armored?", well, it depends. There are weapons specially designed against armors.

Quote from: ClaudiusIf you mean "Does combat last longer because it's difficult to harm people when they're armored?", well, it depends. There are weapons specially designed against armors.

You're correct. I added versus armour to my Fudge game, too. That way people in plate risk getting injured. Heh.

Artesia has a nice system where armor differentiates between the three damage types and also converts non-penetrating damage to bludgeoning damage. Neat, and not even that complicated in play. Mark Smylie has done a tremendous job with his game.