Quote from: Skarg;10056271.3-meter hexes, 5-second turns, facing rules, terrain, counters for fallen bodies, dropped weapons, fire, etc.

Quote from: Ravenswing;1005637There's another consideration.  My wife just has no abstract sense of relations: she has to have a visual reference or she just can't picture things.  I doubt she's the only gamer out there who has trouble imagining everything the GM has in his head, gamers not being any better mindreaders than the genpop.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1005665What I find fascinating about this (and similar) discussions is what feels like the lack of a middle ground on the subject.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1005715I prefer a system that can go be used easily on a grid, on a map with a few markers, or done in the mind.  Because I want to be able to switch between methods fight by fight, or even within the fight.  Some things work better in the head, and some better on a board.

Quote from: Dumarest;1005734I keep reading this thread title as "Abstract Poisoning" for some reason...

I seldom use miniatures or hex grids unless a situarion calls for knowing exactly where everyone is in relation to each other.

Sometimes they can help prevent the "No, my character is over here so that goblin couldn't have speared him" situation that can arise with a certain type of player...these days I don't have any of them in my games, luckily.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1005722Agreed! Figures, maps, whiteboards; they're all GM tools to keep the adventure rolling.

Quote from: Dumarest;1005734Sometimes they can help prevent the "No, my character is over here so that goblin couldn't have speared him" situation that can arise with a certain type of player...these days I don't have any of them in my games, luckily.

Quote from: Bren;1005694... I can work with airy fairy, arsty farsty TotM, but it seems like typing with one hand tied to your foot to  try and get any coherent view of the situation via description when plunking a few minis down to show relative positions gets everybody on the same page in 3 seconds.

Quote from: Cave Bear;1005622How abstract is too abstract where tactical positioning in combat is concerned?
How detailed is too detailed?

A lot of you guys seem to dislike the use of battlemats and miniatures. These components do take time to set up, and they add layers of complexity that can slow down play.

Some want the miniature, wargame experience. Some think this is to board-gamey.

What is your position on the matter?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1005654I love miniatures wargames but I've come to hate grid and miniatures combat in RPGs.  My imagination is far more evocative, and statements like "I'm going to fade left and try to get into a flanking position" work just fine.  It does require knowing what you want to do and a fair amount of trust, admittedly.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1005659Im right with you Gronan. The chaotic and yet intricate swirl of combat is impossible to reproduce directly with markers or miniatures and I find they only serve to hamstring my imagination instead of supporting it. I can imagine a blur of movement as combatants maneuver about one another and the environment to best advantage and from the press of opponents but stick a figure down there on the table and thats pretty much I see... my guy, standing there, waiting his turn. Maybe its just me but its always been an issue.

I get it that tactically a representation of some kind is helpful to make sure everyone is on the same page on just where everybody is, but its a scene killer as far as Im concerned. Besides, since when is everyone so clear on where everybody else actually is at any given moment?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1005681I work hard to train players to ask not "What is in the room," but "is there something in the room I can hide behind?" or whatever.  Leading questions work wonderfully.

Quote from: Psikerlord;1005692I agree. I've used minis, grids, sketch maps, or just imagination. I greatly prefer Totm. For me, it's quicker and makes improv much easier. Yes, players will ask more questions as a combat unfolds, but I still find it quicker and more immersive. As soon as the grid and minis come out, we slip into a more boardgamey mode (which is fun enough, did it for years with 4e).

edit: I do use the occasional sketch map

Quote from: Ravenswing;1005750Oh aye.  I like minis, I've hundreds of them, I'm used to them ... but if what someone prefers are slashes from a dry-erase market on a whiteboard, it does the same thing, pretty much.

Err ... howzat?  Seems to me that "the goblin's over there and I'm over here" is a perfectly legit defense against being speared, the same way that "I wasn't caught by the papier-mache pit because I'm in the back of the party" or "Well of course the runaway chariot didn't clip me, I'm not in the street at all, I'm in the tavern" are valid.

Quote from: Cave Bear;1005851Was confused about 'ToM' for a moment.

Theatre of the Mind?

Quote from: flyingmice;1005789How many times has this question been asked and answered, with all the same people saying the same things? AFAIC, it's a matter of taste, and there is no disputing matters of taste. There is nothing objective.Some people prefer one, and some people prefer the other - usually strongly.