Quote from: RandallS;444946A single edition (or new "editions" that do not change much besides graphics. layout, and such and such to keep pace with "style" so to attract new gamers) are better for the hobby in the long run. Publishers who can't figure out a way to make money from that aren't really helping the hobby, IMHO.

Congratulations, you just described every company in the industry.  None of them have figured out a way to keep a single edition in print for a long time and still make money.  Not a one.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;444984And so it will come to pass someday that companies will understand that tabletop rpgs are most appreciated by hobbyists who have no desire to become blind consumers and the publishing of rpg material, while possibly providing a sustainable living for a few, will never provide that large pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

You know, I'd jump into the 3PP racket if I could make enough money to keep my hobby self-supporting. It is really becomming a cottage industry.

Quote from: Aos;444953I don't know, there would be no Pathfinder without the OGL. I mean if Piazo is the threat we've all been led to believe, that would seem to be a pretty big deal.

Aos, it's spelled Paizo. Just so you know.

Quote from: Aos;444974So what would happen if Hasbro bought Piazo?

I would wager on it that won't happen. Even if Hasbro made a generous offer... Remember the Paizo gang was with WOTC, some even before Hasbro acquired WOTC, and they saw the effect on their jobs and careers that decision at WOTC made.

Quote from: danbuter;445003Aos, it's spelled Paizo. Just so you know.

You would be astounded at how comfortable I am in in my ignorance. Astounded.

Quote from: GameDaddy;445004I would wager on it that won't happen. Even if Hasbro made a generous offer... Remember the Paizo gang was with WOTC, some even before Hasbro acquired WOTC, and they saw the effect on their jobs and careers that decision at WOTC made.

I don't expect that it would happen; it's just this had tuned into a thread of crazy fantasy, so I figured it was a fair question.

Quote from: Aos;444974So what would happen if Hasbro bought Piazo?

The only reason to do this would be to let Paizo be Paizo creatively while taking advantage of the remaining value of the D&D IP and Hasbro's strengths in marketing, distribution, and manufacturing.

Maybe if they bought Paizo & had them make 4e product (presumably with enough salary & job security to keep their creative staff from picking up and leaving), it could work out. But 4e as-is seems to have more problems than just the availability of adventures. If anything it's the other way around--3rd parties don't want to write for 4e because the market isn't good enough.

Quote from: One Horse Town;444975Isn't that pretty much what the new license promotes over anything else?

I guess so--I'm mainly picking up on what other people are saying here, and extrapolating. Again, the problem is (apparently) 3rd parties don't find it very attractive. Because 4e hasn't created a large enough market for adventures? Because the terms of the license are unfair? A little of both?

Quote from: Exploderwizard;444984And so it will come to pass someday that companies will understand that tabletop rpgs are most appreciated by hobbyists who have no desire to become blind consumers and the publishing of rpg material, while possibly providing a sustainable living for a few, will never provide that large pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

"You, too, can make hundreds of dollars a year as an RPG game author."

Although now even that's debatable.

What's the quickest way to have a million dollar RPG company?  Start out by investing two million dollars in it.

Quote from: Daedalus;444916And Ryan Dancey was shown the door.   How about the other people involved with the OGL/3.X?   Are they still with the company?

Probably not.  You get rid of idiots who make stupid mistakes that cost a company money

You mean that at Wizards they are about to get rid of themselves? Because the whole 4E fiasco (and, in a way, the 3.5E before it) fits your requirement.

Quote from: ggroy;444942This is similar to a monthly magazine or comic book model.

Though such a model can eventually break down if the number of buyers/subscribers falls too low.  One just has to see how many magazines have closed down over the last decade or so.

This is because the Internet has basically replicated all of the kinds of content people buy magazines for.  There's simply no reason to buy a magazine when I have countless internet sites that are more prompt to print, and free to access.

Perhaps a lesson could be learned from this.  As someone who is recently much more caught up to the tech curve than I used to be, and a new iPad owner, I'm starting to see where the technology has finally gotten to a "digital everything" point that is practical.

Sadly, the digital space for RPGs is still in the fucking dark ages.  We have one fucking monopoly that controls a vast majority of the market, and then a scattered bunch of publishers selling their own shit.  And it's all in PDF, which is easier to read now with my iPad, but it still costs a goddamn fortune and it's still just scans of the print book.  

I want to know why the fuck no one is on Kindle or iBooks or Nook, or putting out coffee-table apps for the App Store?  There's like 6 RPGs between the 4 of them that I've been able to find.  I wanna see hyperlinked, screen friendly, searchable, ebooks, not just crude scans of a print work slapped up on DTRPG for $40.

Quote from: Melan;444888Now that is some commentary on the society and economy we have created.

Scary.

Quote from: One Horse Town;444954Really, i think that Dancey and the OGL were good for the hobby in the short term, but less so for WotC.

The D20 license was brilliant.  The OGL was fucking retarded.  A free unlimited license to your core product?  Moronic.

They could have achieved the same success with 3e/D20 if the OGL had a 10 year expiration date.  

Quote from: J Arcane;445054I want to know why the fuck no one is on Kindle or iBooks or Nook, or putting out coffee-table apps for the App Store?

Yeah!  What's up with that?

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;445008I guess so--I'm mainly picking up on what other people are saying here, and extrapolating. Again, the problem is (apparently) 3rd parties don't find it very attractive. Because 4e hasn't created a large enough market for adventures? Because the terms of the license are unfair? A little of both?

Probably a little of both - and also a healthy dose of companies who were bigger 3e 3rd party publishers finding out that they had to do a bit more work to keep hanging onto WotC coat-tails.

I must admit that i was expecting a batch of new 3pp for 4e, but it hasn't really happened.

Quote from: jgants;444993Congratulations, you just described every company in the industry.  None of them have figured out a way to keep a single edition in print for a long time and still make money.  Not a one.

Chaosium and Palladium seem top manage.  They don't make millions, but they consistently show enough profit to keep their owners happy. And their "new editions" are usually completely compatible with old editions and everything else they've published for the game. Said new editions are generally little more than a new layout, some different art, and a few pages of new material.

Ah, so the ideal RPG company success story, in your mind, is to be a tiny, struggling entity barely scraping by. Gotcha.

Quote from: jgants;444993Congratulations, you just described every company in the industry.  None of them have figured out a way to keep a single edition in print for a long time and still make money.  Not a one.

Coincidentally who holds the record for quickest edition change?

Postmortem can claim about 9 months anyone who can top that?