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Author Topic: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders  (Read 2839 times)

RPGPundit

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A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« on: January 10, 2023, 10:49:13 PM »
If you own shares in #Hasbro ( $HAS ) & you haven't heard about the huge mistake it's subsidiary Wizards of the Coast is about to make, check out this video. Their bungle will cost you money!
#dnd #onednd #opendnd #dnd5e #OGL

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JeremyR

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2023, 10:54:23 PM »
I wish you were right, but I have at least a dozen co-workers that play D&D (5e). None of them know about the OGL.

Meanwhile, to boost their stock, Hasbro just needs to go on and on about how the OGL1.1 lets them leverage Web 3 for profit and people will lick it up. Get your Drizzt and Elminster NFTs

Chris24601

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2023, 11:01:52 PM »
Good video that basically sums up the history of D&D.

I'll be honest, it may not have been your idea, but having to leave off your statement about being the "Final Boss of Internet Shitlords" made the whole piece feel so much more professional. I say skip even referencing it and just saying you're "The RPG Pundit" going forward.

Effete

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2023, 07:31:45 AM »
Maybe I should buy on the dip... cause once OneDnD releases and all goldfish-brained morons see the new shiny, their stock will pick up.

Chris24601

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2023, 08:39:28 AM »
Maybe I should buy on the dip... cause once OneDnD releases and all goldfish-brained morons see the new shiny, their stock will pick up.
Just wait until after their D&D movie bombs. Not because of the OneD&D backlash, but because of it’s clearly MCU-lite structure in an era of MCU-fatigue and has the greatly overrated Chris Pine playing the exact same character he plays in every film he’s in as the lead. Nothing is going to smash Habro’s hopes of making D&D a lifestyle brand like their multi-hundred million dollar movie going down in flames.

Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro’s lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with… which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.

Effete

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2023, 09:31:44 AM »
Maybe I should buy on the dip... cause once OneDnD releases and all goldfish-brained morons see the new shiny, their stock will pick up.
Just wait until after their D&D movie bombs. Not because of the OneD&D backlash, but because of it’s clearly MCU-lite structure in an era of MCU-fatigue and has the greatly overrated Chris Pine playing the exact same character he plays in every film he’s in as the lead. Nothing is going to smash Habro’s hopes of making D&D a lifestyle brand like their multi-hundred million dollar movie going down in flames.

Despite my thoughts that the movie may actually be fun, I agree it is likely to bomb. The last couple MCU films fell far short of projections, and the shows were not well-received at all. If anyone is going to correlate the DnD film with the MCU, it will spell disaster. This recent OGL debacle will only expound any disinterest.

Quote
Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro’s lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with… which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.

Yeah, I've shifted my position on this. A few days ago I was hoping Hasbro reverses and leaves the 1.0a untouched, but now I kinda just wanna watch them burn the house down around them. The mass exodus is a comforting thing; the hobby doesn't need DnD to survive. I just wish people would stop freaking out about the potential for lawsuits, backing away from using terms like "Strength" or "Hit Points." This is the time to challenge WotC on the usage of such terms, not relinquish them. Plenty of other games get by just fine using them. WotC may try to make an example of a few offenders (such as the obvious retroclones or even Kobold Press), but they won't after someone for using a generic gaming term. Especially if their hemorrhaging money.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 09:33:22 AM by Effete »

Chris24601

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2023, 10:14:14 AM »
Yeah, I've shifted my position on this. A few days ago I was hoping Hasbro reverses and leaves the 1.0a untouched, but now I kinda just wanna watch them burn the house down around them. The mass exodus is a comforting thing; the hobby doesn't need DnD to survive. I just wish people would stop freaking out about the potential for lawsuits, backing away from using terms like "Strength" or "Hit Points." This is the time to challenge WotC on the usage of such terms, not relinquish them. Plenty of other games get by just fine using them. WotC may try to make an example of a few offenders (such as the obvious retroclones or even Kobold Press), but they won't after someone for using a generic gaming term. Especially if their hemorrhaging money.
Also, ironically, Strength is the safest term to use as TSR already tried suing over it and failed. Thus, there is settled case law that Strength isn’t copyrightable.

I’d further argue that it’s not worth worrying about terms that are self-evident. I call my condition that reduces your speed by half “slowed” because that is an obvious term for having your speed reduced. I opted for “halted” instead of D&D’s immobilized though because halted is also a self-evident term for having your movement reduced to zero while in general use the word immobilized is akin to paralyzed and thus not really a self-evident term.

The idea though in my case is to establish a pattern in my work. If I always use self-evident terms for things then even if those things happen to overlap with some D&D terms it doesn’t establish anything other than D&D also used a self-evident term.

Effete

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2023, 10:30:14 AM »
I’d further argue that it’s not worth worrying about terms that are self-evident. I call my condition that reduces your speed by half “slowed” because that is an obvious term for having your speed reduced. I opted for “halted” instead of D&D’s immobilized though because halted is also a self-evident term for having your movement reduced to zero while in general use the word immobilized is akin to paralyzed and thus not really a self-evident term.

The idea though in my case is to establish a pattern in my work. If I always use self-evident terms for things then even if those things happen to overlap with some D&D terms it doesn’t establish anything other than D&D also used a self-evident term.

Precisely!
There's also the optics to consider. If you change every term, it becomes obvious you are intentially trying to be different, rsther than just choosing the best term for the mechanic. Obvious things draw attention, so while you're intention is to safeguard yourself, you may only be inviting closer scrutiny for something that MAY encroach on WotC's IP. What you actually want to do is muddy the waters to make a lawsuit harder to stick.

I remember hearing about a case where someone was sued for slander, but the defendant demonstrated that they had a history of being a habitual liar, so charges were dropped.

Thorn Drumheller

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2023, 10:34:31 AM »
Good vid pundit. I have no place to share it as I hate social media...but excellent non the less. LOL
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Brigman

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2023, 01:03:08 PM »
I shared the video on my Twitter feed, FWIW.  I thought it was excellent.

I'm not enjoying the ups and downs of this.  My inbox has been flooded with 3rd party publishers (that I've bought from before) running big-bundle fire sales via DriveThruRPG.  I feel like I'm taking advantage of them, but buying as much as I can now before it goes away... IF it goes away. 

My group, all younger people, have been playing a Saltmarsh campaign using 5e (that I'm running) for over a year now.  I've just been ignoring the latest "barista" releases and using 3pp stuff to enhance the game.  I'm not gonna burn it down because WOTC sucks, but it does take some of the thrill out of it... no plans to ever buy "OneD&D" or "upgrade" after this debacle.
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Jam The MF

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2023, 01:33:05 PM »
Approaching this target audience directly, is a smart move Pundit.  A little bit bold and brash, perhaps; but if done tastefully, it might garner the attention of someone who owns enough shares of Hasbro to have a voice in that environment.  Just give them a heads up, that Hasbro isn't just a toy company that's out to make a profit.  They are actively harming their industry, and creating a huge list of enemies.
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Jam The MF

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2023, 01:39:51 PM »
I shared the video on my Twitter feed, FWIW.  I thought it was excellent.

I'm not enjoying the ups and downs of this.  My inbox has been flooded with 3rd party publishers (that I've bought from before) running big-bundle fire sales via DriveThruRPG.  I feel like I'm taking advantage of them, but buying as much as I can now before it goes away... IF it goes away. 

My group, all younger people, have been playing a Saltmarsh campaign using 5e (that I'm running) for over a year now.  I've just been ignoring the latest "barista" releases and using 3pp stuff to enhance the game.  I'm not gonna burn it down because WOTC sucks, but it does take some of the thrill out of it... no plans to ever buy "OneD&D" or "upgrade" after this debacle.

The used market, will be the preferred route for any 5E purchases from here on out.  That way, Hasbro makes zero additional money off of it.  I'll never criticize someone, for running a game they already own and like.  Just try not to fund WOTC's future, in any way.

Enjoy that Saltmarsh campaign.  You already own it.  Run the hell out of it.
I was Banned from RPG.net a long time ago, for Having Common Sense.

migo

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2023, 03:05:09 PM »
I’d further argue that it’s not worth worrying about terms that are self-evident. I call my condition that reduces your speed by half “slowed” because that is an obvious term for having your speed reduced. I opted for “halted” instead of D&D’s immobilized though because halted is also a self-evident term for having your movement reduced to zero while in general use the word immobilized is akin to paralyzed and thus not really a self-evident term.

The idea though in my case is to establish a pattern in my work. If I always use self-evident terms for things then even if those things happen to overlap with some D&D terms it doesn’t establish anything other than D&D also used a self-evident term.

Precisely!
There's also the optics to consider. If you change every term, it becomes obvious you are intentially trying to be different, rsther than just choosing the best term for the mechanic. Obvious things draw attention, so while you're intention is to safeguard yourself, you may only be inviting closer scrutiny for something that MAY encroach on WotC's IP. What you actually want to do is muddy the waters to make a lawsuit harder to stick.

I remember hearing about a case where someone was sued for slander, but the defendant demonstrated that they had a history of being a habitual liar, so charges were dropped.

Yeah, I would go with change the terms that actually need to be changed. Like Intelligence - what is normally being tested for when you make an Intelligence check? It's to see if you know something. The higher your Intelligence score, the more likely you are to already know random information. What is a better term to describe that? Knowledge. Then we've got Wisdom, which is in natural language what you learn from experience - old people have more of it, young less. What is being tested for when you make a Wisdom check? Either perception or willpower. Does Willpower need to be an ability score, or can it comfortably be just a save? Charisma is a little bit less clear cut, since its use changes from one edition to the next, so while in D&D generically it's just the 6th stat, if you're making a system it's not a bad idea to be clear what you mean with it, and to pick a word that correctly describes it.

So you could end up with Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Knowledge, Perception, Likeability. Perception could even apply to stuff like saving throws vs Illusions (contrasting with how it is put on Intelligence in 2nd Edition), and even stuff like Charm magic (you're more likely to notice something is off about your best friend). Knowledge would clearly influence how many languages you know and/or how many skill points you get, just the way Intelligence did before, but the term is more transparent, and you also don't have the problem of figuring out how to play a genius when you're not, or correctly roleplay an idiot. You could be a smart player with a low Knowledge character - they can still act smartly, but they don't have as many skills, can't speak as many languages, and are just more ignorant of the world around them and its history.

Corolinth

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2023, 07:41:59 PM »
Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro’s lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with… which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.

Yeah, I've shifted my position on this. A few days ago I was hoping Hasbro reverses and leaves the 1.0a untouched, but now I kinda just wanna watch them burn the house down around them. The mass exodus is a comforting thing; the hobby doesn't need DnD to survive. I just wish people would stop freaking out about the potential for lawsuits, backing away from using terms like "Strength" or "Hit Points." This is the time to challenge WotC on the usage of such terms, not relinquish them. Plenty of other games get by just fine using them. WotC may try to make an example of a few offenders (such as the obvious retroclones or even Kobold Press), but they won't after someone for using a generic gaming term. Especially if their hemorrhaging money.
If Hasbro wants to get salty about the usage of "hit points", they're going to have to explain to a judge why they never tried to sue SquareEnix, or several other large video game companies.

Howard

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Re: A Warning for Hasbro Shareholders
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2023, 10:57:35 PM »
Even the hardware hacking crowd is weighing in (these are the folks that will repair a device that they can't get parts for any longer by cobbling their own replacement widget, I can't recall them ever weighing in on RPGs):

https://hackaday.com/2023/01/11/wizards-slay-the-dragon-that-lays-the-golden-egg/

Some of the comments are of interest as well.