The "value" of the TPB OP's idea was that he got to start a thread.

If I valued that kind of attention, I could likewise find many things "problematic".

Everyone can relax, I just Ouija Boarded Gary and he says you need a DM.

Whew. Now that's settled.

Quote from: Koltar;675577WTF??

Without a GM (or DM) its not a roleplaying game.

That's why.


- Ed C.

If you define roleplaying game as requiring a gm you are correct.

I think the roleplay part is more important though.

I would not call an rpg without roleplay an rpg; I would call it a wargame.

Quote from: tenbones;675644Everyone can relax, I just Ouija Boarded Gary and he says you need a DM.

Whew. Now that's settled.

:rotfl:

Quote from: Bill;675658I would not call an rpg without roleplay an rpg; I would call it a wargame.

Though a lack of roleplaying is definitely key, you can roleplay in any games. I have seen people roleplay in wargames, board games and card games. As such, it's difficult to hang much off of it without further investigation.

The unusual thing about RPGs IMO is that they can't operate without roleplaying. I think the use of a single person with the powers of a GM is an essential element in creating a game where something as complex as roleplaying is required. As such, the lack of a GM is a strong (but not the only) indicator that a game is no longer an RPG.

Quote from: estar;674388Mike Mearl is correct and accurate to point out the necessity of a human referee.

Most of the MMORPGs and console gaming folks just don't get it. Having a live in-game ref to adjudicate player disputes, as well as to adjust plot points, and pacing could help out an online game tremendously. I wouldn't be surprised to see this in one of the newer MMO's. I also wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be very popular.

Quote from: GameDaddy;675780Most of the MMORPGs and console gaming folks just don't get it. Having a live in-game ref to adjudicate player disputes, as well as to adjust plot points, and pacing could help out an online game tremendously. I wouldn't be surprised to see this in one of the newer MMO's. I also wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be very popular.

It was actually very common in earlier MMOs. The manpower requirement and logistics however rather preclude it from being practical for most anything bigger than a very large MUD.  Ryzom basically bombed because it depended on GM events.

Quote from: GameDaddy;675780Most of the MMORPGs and console gaming folks just don't get it. Having a live in-game ref to adjudicate player disputes, as well as to adjust plot points, and pacing could help out an online game tremendously. I wouldn't be surprised to see this in one of the newer MMO's. I also wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be very popular.

I doubt it. The strength of the MMO is the anytime availability. Got 30 minutes to kill before something interesting is happening IRL?  Log in and do a few dailies or a couple simple quests.

A live person being available 24/7 would be too expensive to maintain.

Quote from: J Arcane;675845It was actually very common in earlier MMOs. The manpower requirement and logistics however rather preclude it from being practical for most anything bigger than a very large MUD.  Ryzom basically bombed because it depended on GM events.

Yeah, that. Major selling point for NWN was the DM Client, which is awesome...and we can see how the game went .

Quote from: Rincewind1;675865Yeah, that. Major selling point for NWN was the DM Client, which is awesome...and we can see how the game went .

NWN wasn't an MMO.  And as for how it went, it was so successful it propped up Atari for a number of years on its own revenues, and despite the matchmaking server finally shutting down last year there's still an active community of DM-ed games and PWs being run by direct IP. The difference is that the players were able to create and DM their own stuff.

Most other MMOs with DMed events only gave that level of power to staff members, which creates the problem of scheduling, because it consumes a lot of budget to have people on staff to work on that stuff instead of independent content, and so you wind up with a game where there's nothing to do except when the DMs are on hosting an event.  This was what killed Ryzom at launch; unless you logged on at the scheduled times for the DM run events, there was fuck all to do on your own.

Quote from: Rincewind1;675865Yeah, that. Major selling point for NWN was the DM Client, which is awesome...and we can see how the game went .

It went farther than you think.

A local university used to host a summer programming class for high school students, and one of the platforms they used was NWN.  I found out about it when I was at our local branch library and found a high school student/volunteer with laptop open, working on the toolset while she manned the summer reading program area.  Curious, I asked her about it while one of my kids was picking out a prize, and she told me it was for an enrichment class she signed up for.

A friend of mine in LA was griping at me over his "game" he was playing this past weekend: a 4e session that consisted of a single combat encounter lasting over 8-hours(!) with no roleplaying at all. He said they literally could have played the entire session without the GM. He's thinking of quitting the group.

I immediately thought of this thread. LOL

Quote from: J Arcane;675875NWN wasn't an MMO.  And as for how it went, it was so successful it propped up Atari for a number of years on its own revenues, and despite the matchmaking server finally shutting down last year there's still an active community of DM-ed games and PWs being run by direct IP. The difference is that the players were able to create and DM their own stuff.

Most other MMOs with DMed events only gave that level of power to staff members, which creates the problem of scheduling, because it consumes a lot of budget to have people on staff to work on that stuff instead of independent content, and so you wind up with a game where there's nothing to do except when the DMs are on hosting an event.  This was what killed Ryzom at launch; unless you logged on at the scheduled times for the DM run events, there was fuck all to do on your own.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;676128It went farther than you think.

A local university used to host a summer programming class for high school students, and one of the platforms they used was NWN.  I found out about it when I was at our local branch library and found a high school student/volunteer with laptop open, working on the toolset while she manned the summer reading program area.  Curious, I asked her about it while one of my kids was picking out a prize, and she told me it was for an enrichment class she signed up for.

I know, I know, I'm still playing that game after all . But it did fade away as compared to even say, Ultima. That said, they are different things indeed.

I ponder myself if any of gents & ladies around here'd not be willing to give old NWN a spin . NWConnections are dead and I'd not mind DMing a game, though I'd probably need to build a module from a scratch - I don't think even my usual One Shot is available as NWVault is down, but I think I may still have the files for it somewhere...

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 That is my take on rpg.net

Quote from: dungeon crawler;676236Here at RPG.net we manufacture high grade Butt Hurt. If you are looking for Butt Hurt by the bulk come see us at RPG.net.  please inquire about our special 4 E Butt Hurt. Remember we don't just know Butt Hurt we are Butt Hurt.
 That is my take on rpg.net

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