SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Default Dungeon Assumptions

Started by crkrueger, June 24, 2017, 03:24:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Just Another Snake Cult

Quote from: Skarg;973884The version on page 22 of this: http://www.grey-elf.com/philotomy.pdf or another version?

There was a longer and better draft in Knockspell magazine #2. But that one will give you the basic idea.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Skarg


Elfdart

Quote from: estar;972185I will say it again a Dungeon is no different than any other setting except that it is a maze with rooms with possibly multiple levels. There is no default for a forest, island, nor there is a default for a maze with room. Make it mean what you want it to mean and run with it.

Preach it brotha!

My only assumption about dungeons, after many years of playing, is that any time I assumed something about the dungeon, I found myself having to roll up a new character.
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can\'t understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We\'re not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck\'s sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron\'s review of The Phantom Menace

Zevious Zoquis

Quote from: RPGPundit;972613Well, a large number of very significant people in our world's history did so.



They do, but almost never look like a D&D dungeon.



In fantasy you can always say "a crazy wizard did it", but if you ignore that particular reason there's still a lot of illogical elements to the physical structure of how most dungeons look like.


I think it's worth noting that in D&D, a crazy wizard is far from the only "crazy" possibility.  It could also be a crazy god right?  I mean D&D is a world in which the characters can potentially actually interact with gods and demons and all sorts of "extra-planar" entities.  I don't personally have any problem at all with the notion of a dungeon being simply a huge puzzle challenge.  It could be nothing more than some nutty god's plaything.  I envision my mega-dungeon as something close to a living entity.  It's a magical space that doesn't function according to any real logic and the deeper you get the weirder it is.  Questions like "how is this place ventilated?" and "where do the monsters go poop?" don't bother me much in a world where inter-dimensional gates and bags of holding and alternate planes of existence are part of "reality."

DavetheLost

One Tunnels&Trolls megadungeon was built by the dwarf wizard-god Gristlegrim for entertainment. He allows groups of adventurers to go in and slay and monsters and loot treasures while he and his customers watch the goings on. It makes sense in a way.

The question of dungeon "ecology" that always got me wasn't food, drink, or poop (we would actually find piles of manure in dungeons, it's where the DM hid the rot grubs...), it was air. How did fresh air circulate into the depths of the dungeon? Especially with so many creatures breathing it?

Zalman

Quote from: DavetheLost;977513The question of dungeon "ecology" that always got me wasn't food, drink, or poop (we would actually find piles of manure in dungeons, it's where the DM hid the rot grubs...), it was air. How did fresh air circulate into the depths of the dungeon? Especially with so many creatures breathing it?
I've always assumed that the presence of any kind of air elemental refreshes the local atmosphere. A minor summoning here and there, or just some nozzle-like direct gates from the Plane of Air. No real-world physics required.
Old School? Back in my day we just called it "School."

Zevious Zoquis

Somewhere deep deep in the dungeon the players enter a huge cavern which they discover has walls that seem to be made of a weird soft, "fleshy" material.  These walls constantly undergo a slow, rhythmic  expansion and contraction and the players can feel a strong rush of air moving in and out of the cavern around them...

:D  It ain't rocket science.

Chainsaw

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;977509I envision my mega-dungeon as something close to a living entity.  It's a magical space that doesn't function according to any real logic and the deeper you get the weirder it is.  Questions like "how is this place ventilated?" and "where do the monsters go poop?" don't bother me much in a world where inter-dimensional gates and bags of holding and alternate planes of existence are part of "reality."
Same here. I have better things to do with my design time than puzzle over ventilation and bathrooms. Admittedly, some people can't or won't suspend disbelief to my extent, but thankfully those people and I don't have to play at the same table.

Zevious Zoquis

#68
Quote from: Chainsaw;977519Same here. I have better things to do with my design time than puzzle over ventilation and bathrooms. Admittedly, some people can't or won't suspend disbelief to my extent, but thankfully those people and I don't have to play at the same table.


yeah, "I'm OK with magic and Elves and talking Dragons, but I need to know where the Bugbear's poop goes or I just can't buy in!"  lol...

DavetheLost

I actually did design a dungeon with ventilation shafts once. Just once though because mapping them out as well as the water sources, sewers, etc turned out to be more trouble than it was worth.

Most of the time in my dungeon crawling days we didn't worry about any of this sort of thing. There were treasures to loot, monsters to fight and traps to avoid and we were content.  It was after we moved away from dungeon crawling and into other modes of gaming that really started worrying about this sort of thing.

Ratman_tf

#70
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;972622Jason Cone's incredible essay The Dungeon as Mythic Underworld is what really "Sold" the concept of Old School megadungeons to me and allowed me to see that they could be just as sublime as they could be ridiculous.

"Beyond lay the wilderness of Dungortheb, where the sorcery of Sauron and the power of Melian came together, and horror and madness walked. There spiders of the fell race of Ungoliant abode, spinning their unseen webs in which all living things were snared; and monsters wandered there that were born in the long dark before the Sun, hunting silently with many eyes."

I think the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Coloring Album has a lot of that Mythic Underworld vibe. These pages, where the adventurers are aided by a Ki-Rin, for example.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6044/6262094864_da03762def_o.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6097/6259586910_b399d54fb9_o.jpg

I rather like the idea of the "funhouse" dungeon as a battleground where the forces of "good" and the forces of "evil" meet between the overworld and the underworld. Traps and tricks are there to hinder and hurt the adventureres, treasure is there to help them, and the opposing forces try to corrupt each other's influence.

A DM doesn't even have to explicitly make the idea part of the adventure. A bunch of adventurers may go into the dungeon simply out of greed. But the reason is there, and keeping it in the back of the mind, it can influence the placement and design of a funhouse dungeons features and lore.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Gronan of Simmerya

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;977520yeah, "I'm OK with magic and Elves and talking Dragons, but I need to know where the Bugbear's poop goes or I just can't buy in!"  lol...

McDonalds' on the seventh level...
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;977509I think it's worth noting that in D&D, a crazy wizard is far from the only "crazy" possibility.  It could also be a crazy god right?  

Sure, it could be any number of creators, as long as they're insane.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

AsenRG

#73
It was back in the thread, but II'd like to point out that morale rules aren't part of the dungeon, but of the system you're using it with;).

And regarding the current topic of realism, I always try to make any dungeons I write as realistic as I can, but that's because thinking about this helps me find more interesting ideas. Then again, I seldom create actual dungeons, but even the lair of some warriors you need to take out might well contain a serious number of traps and other dungeon-like attributes:D!
What Do You Do In Tekumel? See examples!
"Life is not fair. If the campaign setting is somewhat like life then the setting also is sometimes not fair." - Bren