Quote from: Trinculoisdead on December 08, 2020, 01:07:10 AM

Quote from: Aglondir on December 07, 2020, 11:47:02 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 07, 2020, 07:49:14 PM
Just reading that makes me want to play WH again (though my group will never go for it).  Nothing combines ridiculous with grimdark like WHFRP!

It does sound fun. Much more so than 5E. Would it be fair to say WHFRP is Game of Thrones + some old school D&D stuff?

And German, lots of German.

Well, German through British eyes perhaps, but it's safe to more generally call it European. Compared to D&D's take, it's noticeably different.

Quote from: Trinculoisdead on December 08, 2020, 01:07:10 AM

Quote from: Aglondir on December 07, 2020, 11:47:02 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 07, 2020, 07:49:14 PM
Just reading that makes me want to play WH again (though my group will never go for it).  Nothing combines ridiculous with grimdark like WHFRP!

It does sound fun. Much more so than 5E. Would it be fair to say WHFRP is Game of Thrones + some old school D&D stuff?

And German, lots of German.

Its more Holy Roman Empire than modern Germany

Yeah not modern Germany of course. I'm no expert here. I played a little with friends recently and couldn't help but notice all the German-sounding place and people names.

I don't believe the Artificer class presented in 5E, fits in very well with the more traditional classes?

I've watched a few reviews on Y tube; and the descriptions of the mechanics of the class and its bag of tricks, causes me to lose focus on the traditional D&D fantasy tropes that I enjoy in gaming.  Whereas the presence of an Alchemist wouldn't?   I believe I'd prefer Alchemist, over Artificer.

QuoteIt does sound fun. Much more so than 5E. Would it be fair to say WHFRP is Game of Thrones + some old school D&D stuff?

No. Not really. Like totally not.
Imagine world which is faux Reneissance Earth (mostly Europe though various other cultures have other equivalents) - like Chaos Dwarves are high-tech ancient Babylon, or Tomb Kings are necromantic Egypt - which exists sort of in two itterations grimdark over the top dark heroic wargame, and more down to Earth semi-heroic very grottesque, and humorous in English style (that's why there is no real fake England) let's say Pratchett, or Allo Allo or Monthy Python.

Skill based, no levels, professions decides what skills and talents you can advance.
Skill-base basically exclude it from OSR connection.

Way to over-the-top and humorous and high-magic (even though very dangerous magic) for Game of Thrones, though paradoxically it probably emulates Reneissance better than GoT emulated real european medieval period.

QuoteI've watched a few reviews on Y tube; and the descriptions of the mechanics of the class and its bag of tricks, causes me to lose focus on the traditional D&D fantasy tropes that I enjoy in gaming.  Whereas the presence of an Alchemist wouldn't?   I believe I'd prefer Alchemist, over Artificer.

Well if we compare core classes - Pathfinder 2 lacks warlocks, but have alchemists over artificers. But then artificer in 5e can be alchemist so dunno.

Quote from: Mercurius on November 28, 2020, 03:40:54 PM
One more thing. I don't know how old you are, but the cold, hard truth is that a lot of folks who are getting the feeling of "This game isn't being marketed to me anymore" tend to be Gen Xers (40s-50s), with the stray Boomer (60+) still holding onto his tattered copy of the Efreet DMG, grunting "From my cold, dead hands!" Meaning, if that's how you feel, well, you're justified, because it is true. WotC still wants you to buy their books, but you're not their primary market.

The bulk of 5E players are now Millenials or Z, and WotC is adjusting to that. They don't really need to cater to us anymore. Sure, a best-case scenario for them is that everyone is happily playing D&D, but the player base has gotten so much larger--and younger--over the last six years, that they no longer have to appease grognards to profit, because Gen Xers and Boomers make up a much smaller fraction of the market than they did even a decade ago.

And more to the point: WotC's biggest concern is growth. While you might get the occasional Gen Xer running across an article about D&D in Salon, thinking, "Hey, I used to play that in college!" and dusting off their old polyhedrals, the number of older players remains relatively stable and isn't where potential growth is, which is younger folks. And, well, Millenials are simply more woke, so WotC is taking that demographic seriously (aside from their personal socio-political views). Gen Zers...well, it remains to be seen as the oldest cohort are only now in high school.

All that said, I'm not as pessimistic as some in this forum in that I think the pendulum will swing back. A bit, at least. The current woke cancellation trend will eventually simmer down, just like the Satanic Panic of the 80s quieted (or at least became marginalized and not taken seriously). But unlike the Satanic Panic, there is actually a positive element to wokism in that it does ultimately want to make D&D more inclusive, just in an extremist and over-the-top way. But as these woke warriors mature, they might relax a bit and realize that fantasy orcs aren't black people, and killing things and taking their stuff isn't tantamount to distributing small pox blankets to Native Americans.

You are correct, I also think WOTC benefits from the people they are not marketing to (the older gamers) having money and will buy a book to a game they may never play (I have lots of books to games I knew I would never play just to check out the setting, some idea for rules, etc).  I think lots of game systems benefit from the RPG "whales", WOTC might be one of the few that benefits from actual brand new gamers consistently buying their stuff.

Quote from: Mercurius on November 28, 2020, 03:40:54 PMBut as these woke warriors mature, they might relax a bit and realize that fantasy orcs aren't black people

The most racist thing I've ever seen in TTRPGs is the equation of black people with orks.

"Why do you think they're the same?"
"They're not, they're stand-ins."
"Okay, but why are they stand-ins?"
"Because white people kill them."
"Why do white people kill them?"
"Because orks are murderers and rapists!"
"How does that make them stand ins for black people?"
"Because white D&D players fear black people are murderers and rapists!"
"Isn't that kind of racist against D&D players?  That they're white and fear black people?"
"Well maybe if they weren't taught that black people are orks it wouldn't be an issue."
"Okay.  What about Hobgoblins?"
"Fuck those little Hittite bastards."
""

(alternatively)

"Oh yeah, they're analogs for humans too."
"Which ones?"
"Which ones?"
"Yeah.  If orks are black people, who are hobgoblins?"
"Oh, you know, some non-white culture.  It's all the same to white racist D&D players.  Which is why we need to remove violence against them all.  They're all people!"
"Okay.  What about Mind Flayers?  Beholders?"
"What?  Look, I don't actually play D&D.  It's a dumb game.  But WotC better hire me on a racial outreach consultant!"

I just received a copy of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, as a much appreciated gift.  I have it spread out side by side with the PHB and Xanathar's Guide.

The selection of New Spells, is minimal at best; but perhaps D&D 5E has enough spells now?

The rest of the book....... It's maybe not even half the book overall, that Xanathar's was.

Do I consider Tasha's to be my jumping off point, for purchasing D&D 5E books?  Yes, most likely.  But not so much because Tasha's isn't a strong offering; but because I'm confident that D&D 5E offers more than enough options now.  If you can't find a character concept you want to play in 5E now, you probably just don't want to play D&D 5E.

I'm still waiting for a good Equipment Book...  Rapier & Quarterstaff uber alles has been rankling for years now. Also, that's not how darts or blowguns work.

Tasha definitely cements my good sense not to get much beyond Basic 5e D&D. Though the "fixing" of the melee cantrips was nice, if overdue.

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 27, 2020, 09:45:09 AM
Though the "fixing" of the melee cantrips was nice, if overdue.

What is the fixing of the melee can trips?

Quote from: Crusader X on December 27, 2020, 12:39:34 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 27, 2020, 09:45:09 AM
Though the "fixing" of the melee cantrips was nice, if overdue.

What is the fixing of the melee can trips?

Well, I disagree that they needed "fixing."  Basically, the cantrips were set up so that certain magic, feats, etc., allowed booming blade and green flame blade to be used with melee weapons with more than 5' reach.  It was one of the few ways to make a whip worthwhile, and it did open some different polearm builds.  Now these cantrips are range "self," so it invalidates those magic enhancements.  I usually don't like changes that are intended to reduce the number of character options.  Now there is absolutely no reason to ever use a whip...

They also made it so you had to use a weapon with at least 1 silver peice as a cost so no more GFB with Shadow blade

The optional advice in the front of Tasha's, seems to say; "You can ignore the rules of the game, in the name of fun.  Just do whatever you want to do, and call it D&D."

More choice is not always good. At a certain point, the amount of choice overwhelms even dedicated players, pleasing only the most hardcore.

This strategy might sell more books, but rarely enhances the game long term.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 27, 2020, 01:39:35 PMNow these cantrips are range "self," so it invalidates those magic enhancements.

That's more of an errata than a Tasha thing. It applies whether you buy into Tasha's or not.