Quote from: TJS on December 04, 2020, 05:14:59 PM
I find myself contemplating Pathfinder 1 for my next game (and I haven't play 3.5 for 15 years).

I just want some real choices.  I'm starting to feel that 5E is played out, already in the current game some of the players struggled not to repeat themselves and to find something new to play and this is only the 3rd set of characters they've played.

Plus Pathfinder has the slow progression XP track to keep the PCs from rushing into high levels and enough variant classes to avoid some of the disparities in classes - And I can just tell insist that primary casters need to take a level or two of expert at certain points in order to slow down their progression.

Playing 5E, however, has reminded me of how good some of those early 3.0 games were that I ran (and how much more tools I had to work with).  I mostly burnt out on it as a player in other people's games.

For fantasy, I find myself looking at WFRP 4e. It's got the slow, broad character growth down, I prefer the overall power level of WFRP over D&D 5e, and I like the setting better than any published D&D 5e setting.

I didn't approach D&D 5E until 2016, after it was 2 years into its run.  I watched tons of videos, by many different creators.  I also watched a plethora of videos about all editions of D&D, and much of the OSR.  5E seemed very approachable, via the Core 3 books.

In a short amount of time, I became frustrated by the lack of a MM2.  Then Volo's was released, and it was only Half a MM2.  So, I turned to buying a bunch of the awesome Bestiaries for Pathfinder 1st Edition.  This in turn, led to me buying many other books for PF 1E.  Might as well have enough to run it, as an option?  However, I stuck with 5E because it was easier to grasp and keep up with. 

Then Xanathar's was out, and it offered some cool options; such as an improved Ranger Class.  Probably one of my favorite 5E books.  I just consider it to be on the table, period.

Then I realized I didn't like the concept of feats, period.  It seems like super heroes, not heroic fantasy.  Then OD&D, via White Box FMAG was a breath of fresh air.  It reminded me of playing AD&D, but with one small simple rules book.

I return to D&D 5E now, and it's starting to look a little like 3.0 / 3.5 / PF, if you allow anything and everything.  I see so many things going on now.  So many possibilities.  A DM can't just be casual about running a game.  They have to approach it like a job.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
For fantasy, I find myself looking at WFRP 4e. It's got the slow, broad character growth down, I prefer the overall power level of WFRP over D&D 5e, and I like the setting better than any published D&D 5e setting.

What's the setting like?

Quote from: Aglondir on December 04, 2020, 10:17:50 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
For fantasy, I find myself looking at WFRP 4e. It's got the slow, broad character growth down, I prefer the overall power level of WFRP over D&D 5e, and I like the setting better than any published D&D 5e setting.

What's the setting like?

You're really not familiar with Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay's "Old World" setting? Ok, where to start...

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page should get you everything you need to know, but it will take a good while to dig through.

The good stuff in the 4e DMG is actually verbatim from the book "3e Dungeons & Dragons for Dummies"...

Quote from: Razor 007 on December 04, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
I didn't approach D&D 5E until 2016, after it was 2 years into its run.  I watched tons of videos, by many different creators.  I also watched a plethora of videos about all editions of D&D, and much of the OSR.  5E seemed very approachable, via the Core 3 books.

In a short amount of time, I became frustrated by the lack of a MM2.  Then Volo's was released, and it was only Half a MM2.  So, I turned to buying a bunch of the awesome Bestiaries for Pathfinder 1st Edition.  This in turn, led to me buying many other books for PF 1E.  Might as well have enough to run it, as an option?  However, I stuck with 5E because it was easier to grasp and keep up with. 

Then Xanathar's was out, and it offered some cool options; such as an improved Ranger Class.  Probably one of my favorite 5E books.  I just consider it to be on the table, period.

Then I realized I didn't like the concept of feats, period.  It seems like super heroes, not heroic fantasy.  Then OD&D, via White Box FMAG was a breath of fresh air.  It reminded me of playing AD&D, but with one small simple rules book.

I return to D&D 5E now, and it's starting to look a little like 3.0 / 3.5 / PF, if you allow anything and everything.  I see so many things going on now.  So many possibilities.  A DM can't just be casual about running a game.  They have to approach it like a job.

I assume that you have the Kobold monster books? Some consider them the best monster books for 5E, and there are now three of them. Plus, the digest-size is very handy.

Quote from: Mercurius on December 07, 2020, 12:23:06 PM

Quote from: Razor 007 on December 04, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
I didn't approach D&D 5E until 2016, after it was 2 years into its run.  I watched tons of videos, by many different creators.  I also watched a plethora of videos about all editions of D&D, and much of the OSR.  5E seemed very approachable, via the Core 3 books.

In a short amount of time, I became frustrated by the lack of a MM2.  Then Volo's was released, and it was only Half a MM2.  So, I turned to buying a bunch of the awesome Bestiaries for Pathfinder 1st Edition.  This in turn, led to me buying many other books for PF 1E.  Might as well have enough to run it, as an option?  However, I stuck with 5E because it was easier to grasp and keep up with. 

Then Xanathar's was out, and it offered some cool options; such as an improved Ranger Class.  Probably one of my favorite 5E books.  I just consider it to be on the table, period.

Then I realized I didn't like the concept of feats, period.  It seems like super heroes, not heroic fantasy.  Then OD&D, via White Box FMAG was a breath of fresh air.  It reminded me of playing AD&D, but with one small simple rules book.

I return to D&D 5E now, and it's starting to look a little like 3.0 / 3.5 / PF, if you allow anything and everything.  I see so many things going on now.  So many possibilities.  A DM can't just be casual about running a game.  They have to approach it like a job.

I assume that you have the Kobold monster books? Some consider them the best monster books for 5E, and there are now three of them. Plus, the digest-size is very handy.

I have the first Tome of Beasts, for D&D 5E.  I agree, it is a very good Monster Manual.  That makes 4 total, that I have for D&D 5E; plus 5 total for Pathfinder 1E; plus 4 Total for D&D 4E; plus the original AD&D Monster Manual.  I have slowed down a bit, on acquiring Monster Manuals.

Quote from: Razor 007 on December 07, 2020, 01:04:43 PM

Quote from: Mercurius on December 07, 2020, 12:23:06 PM

I assume that you have the Kobold monster books? Some consider them the best monster books for 5E, and there are now three of them. Plus, the digest-size is very handy.

I have the first Tome of Beasts, for D&D 5E.  I agree, it is a very good Monster Manual.  That makes 4 total, that I have for D&D 5E; plus 5 total for Pathfinder 1E; plus 4 Total for D&D 4E; plus the original AD&D Monster Manual.  I have slowed down a bit, on acquiring Monster Manuals.

Yeah, these are good if you're looking for Monster Manuals. The Creature Codex is a good one if like ToB.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/252157/Creature-Codex-for-5th-Edition

I have my own Monster book for OSR/5e, but it aimed at creating your own monsters, and PDF only.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/317448/Teratogenicon?src=hottest_filtered

Quote from: Eric Diaz on December 07, 2020, 01:42:29 PM
I have my own Monster book for OSR/5e, but it aimed at creating your own monsters, and PDF only.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/317448/Teratogenicon?src=hottest_filtered

Oooo that does look neat.

Quote from: Aglondir on December 04, 2020, 10:17:50 PM
What's the setting like?

Faux-medieval/Renaissance Europe, but with elves and dwarves and halflings, all distrusted minorities in the human empire.  Sure do seem to be lots of stories of murderous homicidal halflings too.   

Kind of game where you start off as a ratcatcher (it's what it sounds like) or a guy who covers a branch with tar and seed in hopes of luring birds to perch and get stuck (which you then rip off the branch, since sparrow legs don't have much meet anyway).  Then you work your way up to a lowly guard or apprentice scribe.  Maybe someday, with a lot of luck or work, you might actually become a spellcaster or nobleman, but you'll probably also develop some insanity or corruption (or syphilis) along the way. 

Gods are real, but don't do much.  Except the Ruinous Powers, who do a lot.  And it's all bad.

Undead, beastmen, Chaos dwarves, greenskins (orcs and goblins), and other critters are out there, but they're like extremist terrorists: sure they're out there, but they're waaay out there, and you'll never see them.  Unless they come attack your home.  Which happens.  A lot more than anyone wants to admit.  And of course, your GM is liable to make adventures dealing with them.  It's so uncertain and frightening, that some people say there's even an entire underground nation of hidden ratmen that are hiding everywhere.  But any sane and respectable person will be quick to calm your nerves at such lies. 

Magic is real, and unpredictable, and simultaneously as impressive as it is in an average D&D game yet not as common.  Your characters may -never- get a magic item more impressive than a potion of healing.  Wizards have impressive spells, but not very many. 

Put another way: it's the kind of game where your characters explore a sewer, fight a bunch of crazy Chaos cultists, find a magical amulet on the cultists' leader, and then mutate into an insane gibbering abomination due to the corruption radiating from the amulet over the span of the next three or four adventures.  Oh yeah, and everyone gets typhoid from being in those sewers and has to roll to see how much permanent health they lose, because WFRP loves them random rolls that give or take from your character (it's a feature for the game, not a flaw).

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on December 07, 2020, 04:40:23 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on December 04, 2020, 10:17:50 PM
What's the setting like?

Faux-medieval/Renaissance Europe, but with elves and dwarves and halflings, all distrusted minorities in the human empire.  Sure do seem to be lots of stories of murderous homicidal halflings too.   

Kind of game where you start off as a ratcatcher (it's what it sounds like) or a guy who covers a branch with tar and seed in hopes of luring birds to perch and get stuck (which you then rip off the branch, since sparrow legs don't have much meet anyway).  Then you work your way up to a lowly guard or apprentice scribe.  Maybe someday, with a lot of luck or work, you might actually become a spellcaster or nobleman, but you'll probably also develop some insanity or corruption (or syphilis) along the way. 

Gods are real, but don't do much.  Except the Ruinous Powers, who do a lot.  And it's all bad.

Undead, beastmen, Chaos dwarves, greenskins (orcs and goblins), and other critters are out there, but they're like extremist terrorists: sure they're out there, but they're waaay out there, and you'll never see them.  Unless they come attack your home.  Which happens.  A lot more than anyone wants to admit.  And of course, your GM is liable to make adventures dealing with them.  It's so uncertain and frightening, that some people say there's even an entire underground nation of hidden ratmen that are hiding everywhere.  But any sane and respectable person will be quick to calm your nerves at such lies. 

Magic is real, and unpredictable, and simultaneously as impressive as it is in an average D&D game yet not as common.  Your characters may -never- get a magic item more impressive than a potion of healing.  Wizards have impressive spells, but not very many. 

Put another way: it's the kind of game where your characters explore a sewer, fight a bunch of crazy Chaos cultists, find a magical amulet on the cultists' leader, and then mutate into an insane gibbering abomination due to the corruption radiating from the amulet over the span of the next three or four adventures.  Oh yeah, and everyone gets typhoid from being in those sewers and has to roll to see how much permanent health they lose, because WFRP loves them random rolls that give or take from your character (it's a feature for the game, not a flaw).

Just reading that makes me want to play WH again (though my group will never go for it).  Nothing combines ridiculous with grimdark like WHFRP!

Quote from: Thondor on December 07, 2020, 03:39:12 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on December 07, 2020, 01:42:29 PM
I have my own Monster book for OSR/5e, but it aimed at creating your own monsters, and PDF only.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/317448/Teratogenicon?src=hottest_filtered

Oooo that does look neat.

Thank you!

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2020, 11:13:48 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on December 04, 2020, 10:17:50 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
For fantasy, I find myself looking at WFRP 4e. It's got the slow, broad character growth down, I prefer the overall power level of WFRP over D&D 5e, and I like the setting better than any published D&D 5e setting.

What's the setting like?

You're really not familiar with Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay's "Old World" setting? Ok, where to start...

I missed it somehow. Same with HackMaster.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 07, 2020, 07:49:14 PM
Just reading that makes me want to play WH again (though my group will never go for it).  Nothing combines ridiculous with grimdark like WHFRP!

It does sound fun. Much more so than 5E. Would it be fair to say WHFRP is Game of Thrones + some old school D&D stuff?

Quote from: Aglondir on December 07, 2020, 11:47:02 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 07, 2020, 07:49:14 PM
Just reading that makes me want to play WH again (though my group will never go for it).  Nothing combines ridiculous with grimdark like WHFRP!

It does sound fun. Much more so than 5E. Would it be fair to say WHFRP is Game of Thrones + some old school D&D stuff?

And German, lots of German.