Quote from: HinterWeltI have to say, and I think Mike will back me up on this, it really does not matter to me what system I am playing. We are playing 3.5 DND right now but it does not affect how I play. We tried Hero and that was out and out painful...but I played the same sort of role oriented character I always do.

Mike is just intimidated by Moonbeam and needs comfort.

Bill

Well how could a Half-Orc barbarian not be intimidated by a Druid would wields the Stick of Doom and Darts of Death.

Quote from: the ultimate nullifierOh yeah, Willpax's post reminded me:

Despite running a role-playing heavy game, I LOVE tactical combat and believe environment and motivation are everything in a fight.  I have a ton of minis and use them for nearly every serious combat.

I love tactical combat but to tend to do something like Battletech or WarHammer to get my tactical combat fix instead of using something like a RPG.  I don't mind using minis to help clarify a situation but find they get in the way more often than they help in running a clean RPG battle.

Nothing too fancy.  Just straight up 3.5 D&D, more or less, with a few odd house rules that have been around so long we think they are normal rules at this point.  We use minis to depict combat, as it just makes it easier for everyone to see what is going on.  Core books and the Forgotten Realms setting, with a few other books that have been allowed based on the campaign or player request.

I try to keep it all simplified.  The less I have to remember, the more I can concentrate on play.

Quote from: VarajI love tactical combat but to tend to do something like Battletech or WarHammer to get my tactical combat fix instead of using something like a RPG.  I don't mind using minis to help clarify a situation but find they get in the way more often than they help in running a clean RPG battle.

My problem is the "motivation" part.  That is, straight up mini games do not interest me as much if I do not feel invested in the battle the way you do in an on-going campaign - so really I need both to feel satisfied.

Also, despite my love of tactics ultimately playing your character correctly is more important, which means if you think he'd make a dumb mistake, you make a dumb mistake even if it is not tactically sound.

Quote from: the ultimate nullifierAlso, despite my love of tactics ultimately playing your character correctly is more important, which means if you think he'd make a dumb mistake, you make a dumb mistake even if it is not tactically sound.

I can certainly understand the motivation thing.  I ran a Battletech game for a year or two.  One day was RP the other day was tactical battle.  I've done the same with Warhammer 40k.

Quote from: the ultimate nullifierAlso, despite my love of tactics ultimately playing your character correctly is more important, which means if you think he'd make a dumb mistake, you make a dumb mistake even if it is not tactically sound.

You are a wise man.

Generally our D&D games start out with the best of role playing intentions and then quickly break down into number crunching once combat begins.  Then after that the role playing is normally lessened and the strategic game play element is increased.  

Usually the biggest factor on when this switch happens though is dependant on the DM.  If the DM keeps combat more story based then the role playing tends to stick around a lot longer and keeps the min/maxing at bay.

Quote from: KnightcrawlerOr if their are characters that like to flaunt wealth include stuff you know that they'd rather keep and wear rather than sell.

I think my players are like 99 percent of every other player out there in that they will sell all of it to buy more magic items. Next campaign, I swear to God I am going to make the buying and selling of magic items much more difficult.

Quote from: KnightcrawlerAnother thing you can do is make a lot of the treasure works of art and jewelry.  Perhaps some rugs and tapestries or even a small library of valuable books.  Things perhaps that the PC's might want to keep (especially if theirs wizrads or sorcerers) perhaps to decorate their own abode.  Or if their are characters that like to flaunt wealth include stuff you know that they'd rather keep and wear rather than sell.

That wouldn't work. My players are all about getting the most gear out of their money, and about saving as much money as possible.

Put it like this: They arrive in Sharn with an airship they've "liberated" from the guy who stole it from house Lyrandar. They are greeted by a representative of the house who says "Thanks for returning our ship. Here's the 10,000 gp reward."

What do they do next, during the week or so downtime? Do they party on, spending at least SOME of their money on the time-honored ale & whores? No. They go to work, and roll their craft or profession checks to earn a few measly gold pieces.

So, any tapestries or paintings or the like I introduce as treasure will most likely be ruthlessly treated as just treasure.

Quote from: DackeThat wouldn't work. My players are all about getting the most gear out of their money, and about saving as much money as possible.

Put it like this: They arrive in Sharn with an airship they've "liberated" from the guy who stole it from house Lyrandar. They are greeted by a representative of the house who says "Thanks for returning our ship. Here's the 10,000 gp reward."

What do they do next, during the week or so downtime? Do they party on, spending at least SOME of their money on the time-honored ale & whores? No. They go to work, and roll their craft or profession checks to earn a few measly gold pieces.

So, any tapestries or paintings or the like I introduce as treasure will most likely be ruthlessly treated as just treasure.

Well, to be honest they are doing that because the system is rewarding them for doing that.  They have no incentive to spend money on partying, or decorating their homes, or anything else except to say "I did it".  If you want them to spend money elsewhere you need to give them a reason to.

Maybe spending on Ale and Whores will turn gold into XP.  Or partying it up makes him really self assured, getting a +2 to Will saves for a month or so.

This problem exists in other games, but is made worse in D&D because treasure is expected and assumed, it correlates directly to combat power, and there's not really anything else to spend your money on.  In 1e magic items generally weren't for sale, but gold was needed for training (and gave XP directly).  2e was even weirder, as there were no training except as an optional rule that was IME seldom used, and nothing to spend it on.  So you'd have characters with fortunes and nothing to do with them.  In 3e your characters have something to spend that hard-earned gold on, but don't be suprised if they spend it all on that.  What else are they supposed to do with it?

Quote from: MaddmanIn 3e your characters have something to spend that hard-earned gold on, but don't be suprised if they spend it all on that.  What else are they supposed to do with it?

Speaking mostly for myself, I see it more as a matter of scale. IIRC, they got about 4-5 grand each for the adventure they were on. Sure, I expect them to spend a lot of that on getting new gear and upgrading what they have - it's a big part of what the system is about, after all. It's the "Oh, and I spend a week in the smithy so I can earn fifteen gp more."

If it were me, after getting that much money I'd blow at least a hundred or so on living it up for a month until the next adventure, and not bother with making a dozen gp more with work. When I have 5 grand in cash, I'm not going to feel the loss of a hundred gp, after all.

Quote from: DackeSpeaking mostly for myself, I see it more as a matter of scale. IIRC, they got about 4-5 grand each for the adventure they were on. Sure, I expect them to spend a lot of that on getting new gear and upgrading what they have - it's a big part of what the system is about, after all. It's the "Oh, and I spend a week in the smithy so I can earn fifteen gp more."

If it were me, after getting that much money I'd blow at least a hundred or so on living it up for a month until the next adventure, and not bother with making a dozen gp more with work. When I have 5 grand in cash, I'm not going to feel the loss of a hundred gp, after all.

Sounds like they've got the MMORPG-Grind thought process sneaking in.

Have a group of flamboyant NPC's start claiming credit for thier works. Bards start naming the NPC's instead of the PC's for thier adventures, giving them credit. When the PC claims that THEY are the ones who did it, have the person look at him and say: "You? The smith's apprentice? BWAH-HA-HA!"

Have them arrive in a city to find out that the local baron has donated a mansion to the "Great Heroes" and that someone has moved in. Nobody will believe the PC's because they don't "look like that sort of people."

Start requiring libraries to demand a donation of goods or money in order to look at the more rare tomes. Noble families asking to meet them for a job opportunity, then see the PC's, or hear they were working in a smithy and saying: "We're sorry, while I'm sure you have the skills, it would not look right for us to be involved with people of such low station."

Don't transfer ale & whores/parties & dinners into XP, but make it so they can either go look for trouble, or they don't get anything beyond: "Please stop this guy from stealing my business" from beggars and shit.

If they want to be merchants, they can be merchants.

Adventurer's are flamboyant, bombastic and live life on the edge and for the moment.

In my Arcana Evolved game, I use battle maps and minis for the big, important battles.  With all the spells flying around & with the number of players I have, it's extremely convenient.

For smaller battles, or ones I intend to keep fast-paced and free-wheeling, we ditch the map and just scribble relative positions on a piece of paper or whatnot.  Sometimes I use the battlemat because it's convenient but kludge the distances & ignore squares.

Since AE is a pretty small line, my players just use the core book and the Transcended supplement.  I use whatever monster supplements I can get my hands on as a DM.  We have enough spells thankyouverymuch so don't use any spell expansions.

I would sooner end the campaign than use a tactical battle map in my CoC d20 game, but fortunately we're talking D&Dish games here.

-O

I'm still working on simplifying D&D 3.5 to make it play faster for use in a Warhammer Quest type set-up.  My group simply doesn't have time to get together beyond once every other month or so, so it's been all about something we can at least get the taste of D&D without having to remember all sorts of stuff for a true campaign.

That said, we tend to play with some added bells and whistles.  New races, new classes, the occasional new rules drawn from a lot of different D20 sources.