I think you Co-GM, as this friend wants to drive the 5e chassis while you co-pilot the guided tour, is the best way to handle this. It take advantage of your knowledge of the area while letting someone worry about managing the tour bus, if you will. You are fortunate, you seem to be sitting in a space that is the best of both worlds.

Now, this GM is going to have to alter 5e driving to taste because, well, as RAW 5e can be a bit of a tank compared to the Tekumel grittier setting aesthetics. The prolific widgets and resource regeneration rate could end up "trampling the flower beds," as it were. Mercifully, all this is none of your concern!

You've already got great advice on trimming down material. Very much keep an eye to Hollywood sales pitch aesthetics because yeah, as much as the young are curious about the past and profess patience, one is part and parcel of one's times -- and there is a lot competing for their attention in these times. So wear your tour bus hat and imagine giving a guided tour, it will keep you closer in frame of mind of what can be digestible in layman terms. Don't worry about a loving elaboration or two, that's where you bring the magic and passion -- and that's what they profess they want! -- but realize there is so much you can crash course in a personal-enrichment survey tour.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1005152The problem, for me, is that I've been by and large the public face of Tekumel for forty years, and it's biggest booster. I'm expected to run Tekumel by everybody I meet in gaming, without the people with the expectations having any real idea of what I do or how I do it. I do love running other things, like Barsoom or the Lord Meren mysteries, but I very rarely get asked about them; it's always Tekumel, and always RPGs.

I think if the point to run Tekumel then run it how you want to run it with the rules the way you want. The point here is the setting not the rules. Just explain that to your co-referee and if he doesn't seem to like the idea then don't run the game.

The local game store that I run session at from time to time are chock full of Pathfinder, 5th edition, and every other current RPGs except for the ones I run like GURPS, Harnmaster, and OD&D. So what I "sell" them on is my refereeing experience, the spectacle of playing with the miniatures and Dwarven Forge, and the work I put into my Majestic Wilderlands. And these are gamers who will not play any of the three RPG I mentioned unless it me as the referee.

From everything I have seen you post, you do everything I do in regards with Tekumel. So just offer them the Tekumel experience. What I would do to get over the rule hurdle (for the players) is emphasize pretending that they there as the characters. You will handle any rules questions that come up. You may have to throw some softballs at first to get them used to thing but once they seem to have a grip on things it should be smooth afterwards.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1005158I think you Co-GM, as this friend wants to drive the 5e chassis while you co-pilot the guided tour, is the best way to handle this. It take advantage of your knowledge of the area while letting someone worry about managing the tour bus, if you will. You are fortunate, you seem to be sitting in a space that is the best of both worlds.

Now, this GM is going to have to alter 5e driving to taste because, well, as RAW 5e can be a bit of a tank compared to the Tekumel grittier setting aesthetics. The prolific widgets and resource regeneration rate could end up "trampling the flower beds," as it were. Mercifully, all this is none of your concern!

You've already got great advice on trimming down material. Very much keep an eye to Hollywood sales pitch aesthetics because yeah, as much as the young are curious about the past and profess patience, one is part and parcel of one's times -- and there is a lot competing for their attention in these times. So wear your tour bus hat and imagine giving a guided tour, it will keep you closer in frame of mind of what can be digestible in layman terms. Don't worry about a loving elaboration or two, that's where you bring the magic and passion -- and that's what they profess they want! -- but realize there is so much you can crash course in a personal-enrichment survey tour.

Thank you! I think you're right, and this is what the GM and his players have in mind. I think, after considering everyone's comments, that I'll just run the game the way I normally do, and hope for the best. I strongly doubt that this will turn into the kind of game that I enjoy running, but 'Montrose's Toast' and all that.

Quote from: estar;1005167I think if the point to run Tekumel then run it how you want to run it with the rules the way you want. The point here is the setting not the rules. Just explain that to your co-referee and if he doesn't seem to like the idea then don't run the game.

The local game store that I run session at from time to time are chock full of Pathfinder, 5th edition, and every other current RPGs except for the ones I run like GURPS, Harnmaster, and OD&D. So what I "sell" them on is my refereeing experience, the spectacle of playing with the miniatures and Dwarven Forge, and the work I put into my Majestic Wilderlands. And these are gamers who will not play any of the three RPG I mentioned unless it me as the referee.

From everything I have seen you post, you do everything I do in regards with Tekumel. So just offer them the Tekumel experience. What I would do to get over the rule hurdle (for the players) is emphasize pretending that they there as the characters. You will handle any rules questions that come up. You may have to throw some softballs at first to get them used to thing but once they seem to have a grip on things it should be smooth afterwards.

Agreed. I'll run this one - "Who dares, wins" - as if it was one of my usual 'public appearance' games and leave it at that. We'll see how it goes.

I agree with a lot of what others have said.

1. Do people like the PCs know all that stuff about what happened before the universe (or their pocket section of it) changed? If not than cut out most of those paragraphs since their PCs won't know any of it anyway. For example, I'd say it's more important for a player to know what a warrior or a wizard in the world thinks an Eye or a tube car is than for the player to know what technological devices from the time long, long ago really are.

2. Replace missing paragraphs with a short info dump (bullet points would work) that tells the player stuff like "What clan am I? Who is in charge of my clan? Who do I look to for guidance or instruction or orders? What is my clan known for? What is my role in that clan? Which clans are friendly to us and which are hostile?" Then run a similar info dump for "What god(s) do I particularly revere? Who do I look to for religious guidance or instruction? Which gods/cults are my god's/cult's friends and which are our enemies?" Also letting people know that "Hey there are no horses or horse like things to ride here. And people use this stuff called chlen-hide to make most armor and weapons. There's a treatment process and details and stuff, but your character considers this stuff to be the usual material that spoons and knives and swords and armor and stuff is usually made out of."

3. If it were me, I'd hate to try to run a setting without knowing (and liking) the system. I've known GMs who were cool with that, but I would not be one of them. I'd far rather use one of the various systems you are already familiar and/or like. If it were me, I'd most likely use the old EPT rules because they are simple, I own them, and I know that other people have used them in the setting or I'd use RQ-Tekumel because I like the RuneQuest system and I have those rules. Those are also the only two systems I've ever seen used as a player in Tekumel. I have Swords & Glory but it has far too many words for me to want to even attempt to run it and I vaguely recall disliking something about the system, but for the life of me I can't remember what.

Quote from: Bren;1005272I agree with a lot of what others have said.

1. Do people like the PCs know all that stuff about what happened before the universe (or their pocket section of it) changed? If not than cut out most of those paragraphs since their PCs won't know any of it anyway. For example, I'd say it's more important for a player to know what a warrior or a wizard in the world thinks an Eye or a tube car is than for the player to know what technological devices from the time long, long ago really are.

2. Replace missing paragraphs with a short info dump (bullet points would work) that tells the player stuff like "What clan am I? Who is in charge of my clan? Who do I look to for guidance or instruction or orders? What is my clan known for? What is my role in that clan? Which clans are friendly to us and which are hostile?" Then run a similar info dump for "What god(s) do I particularly revere? Who do I look to for religious guidance or instruction? Which gods/cults are my god's/cult's friends and which are our enemies?" Also letting people know that "Hey there are no horses or horse like things to ride here. And people use this stuff called chlen-hide to make most armor and weapons. There's a treatment process and details and stuff, but your character considers this stuff to be the usual material that spoons and knives and swords and armor and stuff is usually made out of."

3. If it were me, I'd hate to try to run a setting without knowing (and liking) the system. I've known GMs who were cool with that, but I would not be one of them. I'd far rather use one of the various systems you are already familiar and/or like. If it were me, I'd most likely use the old EPT rules because they are simple, I own them, and I know that other people have used them in the setting or I'd use RQ-Tekumel because I like the RuneQuest system and I have those rules. Those are also the only two systems I've ever seen used as a player in Tekumel. I have Swords & Glory but it has far too many words for me to want to even attempt to run it and I vaguely recall disliking something about the system, but for the life of me I can't remember what.

Great points, thank you!

1. No; but they've asked about it, like in all the games I've run over the years.

2. Agreed; I'm skipping the hand-out idea and just running the game cold-turkey like I normally do. I strongly doubt that it'll ever morph into a long-term campaign, so I want to - in effect, and I'm not trying to belittle your or anyone else's very good suggestions - 'cut my losses' and give the players a fun visit to the palace in the process. If they want to know more, they can ask.

3. Agreed; good advice, but it runs smack-dab into my limitation that I have no familiarity with any other RPG systems, including D & D's various permutations, besides EPT. I'm planning on running this thing like I always do, 'Free Kriegspiel' and hoping for the best.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;10052761. No; but they've asked about it, like in all the games I've run over the years.

You can't go too far wrong with giving the players some of what they asked for.

Quote2. Agreed; I'm skipping the hand-out idea and just running the game cold-turkey like I normally do.

I don't recall much of an introduction being given the first time I played EPT. The things that I recall that most stuck out as odd was no horsies, no metal/chlen hide, and the non-Western European style of armor and clothing. Doesn't take much to cover those bases.

QuoteI strongly doubt that it'll ever morph into a long-term campaign, so I want to - in effect, and I'm not trying to belittle your or anyone else's very good suggestions - 'cut my losses' and give the players a fun visit to the palace in the process.

It's hard to go wrong with a fun visit. Of course what counts as "fun" is pretty subjective. Seeing some of the colorful stuff you've made and painted sounds pretty fun to me. Getting to push around a colorful and weird looking miniature or two amidst colorful terrain and buildings while my PC stabs someone else in the face or zaps them with a spell sounds fun. Also fun (though less fun) for my PC to get stabbed or zapped. The first time I played RQ-Tekumel some creature plucked out my PC's eye. With suitably gruesome gestures and description. It was still fun.

Quote3. Agreed; good advice, but it runs smack-dab into my limitation that I have no familiarity with any other RPG systems, including D & D's various permutations, besides EPT. I'm planning on running this thing like I always do, 'Free Kriegspiel' and hoping for the best.

If what you always do is Free Kriegspiel than that is what you are familiar with. So run that. Also if you aren't familiar with any RPG except EPT then what works for me rules-wise is going to quite a bit different than what works for you...and vice versa. I can't imagine wanting to run something without some rules. Clearly your imagination is better than mine in at least that respect.

Quote from: Bren;1005284You can't go too far wrong with giving the players some of what they asked for.

I don't recall much of an introduction being given the first time I played EPT. The things that I recall that most stuck out as odd was no horsies, no metal/chlen hide, and the non-Western European style of armor and clothing. Doesn't take much to cover those bases.

It's hard to go wrong with a fun visit. Of course what counts as "fun" is pretty subjective. Seeing some of the colorful stuff you've made and painted sounds pretty fun to me. Getting to push around a colorful and weird looking miniature or two amidst colorful terrain and buildings while my PC stabs someone else in the face or zaps them with a spell sounds fun. Also fun (though less fun) for my PC to get stabbed or zapped. The first time I played RQ-Tekumel some creature plucked out my PC's eye. With suitably gruesome gestures and description. It was still fun.

If what you always do is Free Kriegspiel than that is what you are familiar with. So run that. Also if you aren't familiar with any RPG except EPT then what works for me rules-wise is going to quite a bit different than what works for you...and vice versa. I can't imagine wanting to run something without some rules. Clearly your imagination is better than mine in at least that respect.

Agreed. After all this time, it's gotten kinda predictable what players new to a setting will ask for, so I have that handy as a 'pre-canned answer'.

Also agreed.

Sounds good, really!

As Gronan can tell you from his own playing in my games - like the Barsoom one at the recent Free RPG Day - there are rules to the thing. They are fixed and immutable, and I can't deviate from them on a whim to suit my desires as a GM. However, as with some guys I used to game with, the players have to explore the world to find out what the rules might be. I have been told that I am very, very good at what I do and that may be true; you'd have to ask Gronan about it, as I'm simply too close to it...

Yes, I like a bit of nice epic prose but that got a bit wanky towards the end. If you don't mind me saying.

Quote from: Wanderer;1005299Yes, I like a bit of nice epic prose but that got a bit wanky towards the end. If you don't mind me saying.

Not at all. It was a bad idea to post it in the first place, I think; it's a page from my book about our adventures, and I thought that it would be a handy bit to cut-and-paste as an idea for a possible handout for the game. It's part of a much larger work of fiction / memoir, and I think you're right; it really only makes sense when seen in the larger context of that work. For gaming purposes, it's most likely a waste of time, which is why I'm not going to bother with any sort of hand-out at all. I'm just going to have to grit my teeth and get through the game session, that's all.

No no, it was a good idea, I don't want you to regret it. I think earlier posters were right that you neeed more explicit info , a briefer intro to the mood of the setting. I write this kind of stuff for PbP so I know how hard it is.

Quote from: Wanderer;1005310No no, it was a good idea, I don't want you to regret it. I think earlier posters were right that you neeed more explicit info , a briefer intro to the mood of the setting. I write this kind of stuff for PbP so I know how hard it is.

No problem. I agree with all the great comments I've gotten, but I simply don't want to write something that I'm pretty convinced would wind up being a waste of time for everyone. As far as I can tell, this will be a one-off game, with no real campaign possibilities in the future. We'll get through it; we've had worse.

He either fears his fate too much,
Or his reward is small,
Who does not dare to take the chance
To win or lose it all.

You taught me that.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1005152The problem, for me, is that I've been by and large the public face of Tekumel for forty years, and it's biggest booster. I'm expected to run Tekumel by everybody I meet in gaming, without the people with the expectations having any real idea of what I do or how I do it. I do love running other things, like Barsoom or the Lord Meren mysteries, but I very rarely get asked about them; it's always Tekumel, and always RPGs.  

Me saying, "that must really suck, sorry man," probably doesn't help, but it's what I got. At least you are in good company, if the dead eyed glare Harrison Ford gives every time an interviewer brings up Han Solo, or all the 'I just wanted to sing Howling Wolf songs with my buddies' -like quotes attributed to Mick Jagger. At least you actually like Tekumel, even if you'd rather be doing something else.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1005152I should note that I have not played D & D to any real extant. I played something called 'Blackmoor' with Dave, something called 'Greyhawk' with Gary, and something called 'Tekumel' with Phil. I have about three hours of play time with Gronan's 'Rams Horn'. The three 5e game sessions over this past year were the only ones that I have ever played for any edition, and for me it's a completely alien style of play. I frankly didn't like what I was seeing, and the 5e rules lawyer player didn't do anything for me either.

The problem, for me, is that I've been by and large the public face of Tekumel for forty years, and it's biggest booster. I'm expected to run Tekumel by everybody I meet in gaming, without the people with the expectations having any real idea of what I do or how I do it. I do love running other things, like Barsoom or the Lord Meren mysteries, but I very rarely get asked about them; it's always Tekumel, and always RPGs.

That's awesome!         "I Don't really play D&D, I play these other games that were around before D&D..."

Been on an Edgar Rice Burroughs Barsoom kick myself the last few years. Bought some 1/72 U.S. Cavalry last year so I could do up a full Cavalry Troop for use in Barsoom games, and was also working on making Tharks using wire and green stuff, however my miniatures modeling skills are somewhat lacking for the task at hand. Still though, will probably have the troopers painted before the end of the year as my painting bench is getting empty.