In another thread, ciado was able to pull off a rare feat indeed, by making me remember an RPG I haven't thought about in 12 years, Darksword Adventures by Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman.  The reason I forget about it, is instead of placing it with the rest of my RPGs, I place it with the rest of my paperbacks.  It's an outlier to the RPG model in so many ways, yet it's the only RPG book I've read cover to cover multiple times.  I've never played it but the concept and layout have some definite merits.

1.  It's sold with the paperbacks along with the novels.  If you read the books, you're finding the game right there with it.  I wonder how many people bought the book without realizing it was an RPG?
2.  It's the price of a paperback.  Low risk RPG.
3.  A majority of the book is a story exploring and defining the world to the reader.  You explore the setting through the eyes of a character instead of it reading like a history book.  
4.  You can enjoy reading the book on it's own right even without the RPG portion.  
5.  It was widely distributed through a publisher.  It can be found at most bookstores.
6.  None of the social stigma of carrying around RPGs.  Very minor merit to me.

Has there been any other RPG that has been distributed this way?  What are the negatives of this format?  Could it be a model to introduce RPGs to people?

Honest question, if it's so good, why haven't you played it yet?

Maelstrom, will explain tomorrow, somewhat similar concept.

Time Lord recieved similar treatment.

It died on the vine, despite being sold in Britain, and the license being one of the longest running and most popular shows in TV history.  

I don't recall Darksword Adventures doing much better as I understand it.

Bad idea.

If an RPG writer can write good novels, why would they write RPGs? Seems to me you'd get a bad novel with a bad RPG.

-clash

Quote from: BalbinusHonest question, if it's so good, why haven't you played it yet?

I honestly wasn't trying to measure the quality of the RPG, which I don't remember anyway, but the publishing format.  To answer your question, probably for the same reason I haven't played a number of RPGs on my shelves, nobody else wants to play them.  

Quote from: flyingmiceIf an RPG writer can write good novels, why would they write RPGs? Seems to me you'd get a bad novel with a bad RPG.

I don't understand how they're exclusive.  These authors write both.  Do you mean mixing the two makes for a bad novel and RPG?

I would appreciate this format. I'd like my favorite game to come in this format as a reference work for use in play.

Quote from: GunslingerI don't understand how they're exclusive.  These authors write both.  Do you mean mixing the two makes for a bad novel and RPG?

I said good novels. You can make so much more money writing a good novel that wrting the rpg is not worth the bother. You're more likely to scare away novel readers than you are to attract RPGers. In any case, a novel as rpg base is a good recipe for railroading. You only see what the author needs for the plot - there's not even a pretense at an objective overview.

That was my point. Tastes vary.

-clash

I think I'm confusing everybody here that's not familiar with Darksword Adventures.  Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman wrote the Darksword Trilogy (also the creators of Dragonlance and former writers for TSR).  Whether you consider them good novels or not is your own taste.  Darksword Adventures, the RPG, proceeded the trilogy and was sold alongside and looks like those books as a trade paperback.  

There's a short story that leads you through a variety of locales, complete with maps, to acquaint you with the setting.  The remaining portion of the book is the contents of your standard RPG.  At release it cost $4.50 U.S. dollars and was available wherever you found fantasy books.  

...and cover art by Elmore!

I think the format--trade paperback available at chainstores--IS good. Very good. Psychologically speaking. I remember when I picked up Maelstrom. For once it didn't feel like I was pursuing this out-there hobby but something that was part of the mainstream.

Not that I pine to join the mainstream or anything. Au contraire, I don't care. But a trade pb RPG gives people this sense of instant familiarity. And if the rules are prefaced by a story, even better.

Of course, without major name recognition or license cachet it'd be insanely difficult to persuade book distributors to carry a new RPG, or chains to sell it in the scifi/fantasy novel section. That's why all those indie games that actually have that format already are sold via the infraweb or IPR.

There was Dragon Warriors as well

The problem is, while gamers say they'll buy them in this format, they don't appear to in "reality"

Also, I can't see a paperback standing up to the sort of abuse we give our game books

what on earth do you do with your books?

I don't think DSA failed because it was a paperback. I think it failed because it was sold in the paperbacks section. I don't know how universal it is , but when I'm looking for a new game to try, I generally go to the game section.

Also, umm...Darksword Adventures was a pretty bad game, as I recall.

I used to have this book.  I wonder if I still do...?

Quote from: James McMurrayI don't think DSA failed because it was a paperback. I think it failed because it was sold in the paperbacks section. I don't know how universal it is , but when I'm looking for a new game to try, I generally go to the game section.

I don't think - especially nowadays - that a game will fail because its not in the game section.  If anything the game section of most chain book stores is akin to the land of the dead.  If a book gets put there, it'll stay there till doomsday.

Put it this way, a typical, non gamer, sci-fi/fantasy/horror (genres chosen for their ubiquity) fan is more likely to come across a game if it's in their usual section than us hoping that said fan will chance upon a game set in their genre in the game section.

I'd like to see more games in a paperback/trade paperback format.  Cheaper to produce/buy.  Easier to carry.  The only downside I can see is a lack of interest by existing gamers through sheer snobbery.