This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system  (Read 11782 times)

Aglondir

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1101
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2019, 01:06:30 AM »
Quote from: Bunch;1103956
Yup.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/numenera-w-t-f-monte.697888/.


Found an interesting bit in that thread (bolding mine):

Quote
On the other hand, the Ninth World isn't today's culture. The creatures of the Ninth World are supposed to be scary monsters who want to take everything we (and our characters) hold dear and crush it. To me, the Nibovian wives epitomize that. They SHOULD scare and freak the fuck out of characters, for a whole variety of reasons. Numenera isn't the kind of game where we make people feel safe and secure. It's the kind of game where horrible monsters do horrible things to people -- that's why they're monsters.

On the other hand, if you find the creatures boring instead of scary, don't use them in the game. Or don't play it. There are a thousand great games out there. And isn't that supposed to be the point of gaming anyway? To have fun? If you're not having fun, maybe it's time to play a game you like better.

All my best,
Shanna
Lead Editor, Numenera
Co-Owner, Monte Cook Games, LLC

That's from August 5, 2013. I haven't read the new product, but the bolded sections sound very different from the values expressed in 2019.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 01:07:59 AM by Aglondir »
And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

Gagarth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2019, 06:13:05 AM »
Quote from: jhkim;1103914
I
If there is an asshole player, the X-card makes it much easier for them to disrupt play. The X-card rules don't even consider about how to handle that case. Simple example -- A gay NPC appears in an adventure, and a player touches the X-card and explains that they don't want gay characters in the game. That's contrary to the intent of the designers, I'm pretty sure - but there's no advice on how to handle such a case.

If a player touches the X-card and explains that they don't want straight characters in the game would that be contrary to the intent of the designers? Similarly if the player in your example had been raped by a gay man  would it be contrary to the designers intent for the player to have to explain his reasons.
'Don't join us. Work hard, get good degrees, join the Establishment and serve our cause from within.' Harry Pollitt - Communist Party GB

 “Don’t worry about the election, Trump’s not gonna win. I made f*cking sure of that!” Eric Coomer -  Dominion Voting Systems Officer of Strategy and Security

GIMME SOME SUGAR

  • BANNED
  • BANNED
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2019, 06:53:43 AM »
Quote from: Trond;1103616
"thanks for filling out the consent form. Now everyone, calculate your anal circumference"


Lol, that would be funny! Or make the players fill out organ donor forms before playing a horror game.

GIMME SOME SUGAR

  • BANNED
  • BANNED
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2019, 07:00:32 AM »
What if you intend to play 7th sea or any other pirate game and one of the players turns out to have a past as a Somali pirate?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3836[/ATTACH]

remial

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • r
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #94 on: September 14, 2019, 07:06:00 AM »
Quote from: Shasarak;1103600
If we use this product then that nicely solves the problem of the Gnomish Kings with one simple use of the X card.


what is the problem  with gnomish kings?

Graytung

  • Newbie
  • *
  • G
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2019, 08:15:04 AM »
Quote from: Antiquation!;1103858
Lol, the thread on this product over at TBP is full of gems and insightful commentary as usual. Fucking toxic cishet white males and their stranglehold on power dynamics, attacking and dogpiling on the disenfranchised PoC and marginalized LGBTQ gamers! BLOCKED!!! Session zero never ends, FACT!!!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monte-cooks-consent-in-gaming-hits-shelves-poop-hits-fans.852440/

It's a sad affair. Just look at the behavior of certain woke individuals in that thread. There's at least one non-offensive, intelligent counterpoint among a sea of conformers, and that person is immediately banned. I doubt they even broke any of the rpg.net rules. Power is obviously what some of them want.

I don't think these group-thinking tribalists realize that the path of censorship leads towards a single direction that is a confining space where diversity will not be allowed to flourish. Veto powers will become so intrusive that gaming will get nowhere as laying out the rules is going to become half of the hobby. Rules will only become harsher as this invasive ideology embeds itself deeper into the hobby, because some of them can't help themselves; there will always be someone who won't stop at this product. One step at a time.

Next it will be roll20, Fantasy Grounds and Cons adding consent ideology to their terms of servicerules for attendance and then it will only get worse. You'll be running games for strangers and you'll get flagged for stepping over some line you weren't made aware of without any means of recourse, and it'll be three-strikes and you're out. Everyone is going to be tip-toeing in their games that it's going to be a very limiting experience to want to go out and meet new people in the hobby to play with. And anyone who happens to be on this list of thrice-struck hobbyists won't even be able to attend any con or even have access to sites like roll20 or fantasy grounds.

It's sad, because a common argument I've seen is that you're free to have your own rules in your own gaming groups. People who agree with this sort of thing are free to use it, I personally don't care. However, people who express they would rather opt out are immediately vilified, regardless of the reason for opting out. I'll stay out of your gaming if you stay out of mine.

For now, I obviously won't be using it, or introducing it to any of my gaming groups. If someone brings it up I'll say why do we need it now? If they persist, then hopefully they won't sour as we can continue gaming. Sadly, this sort of thing only will create segregation in the long run.

As a final thought. Sure there are assholes out there, and edgy people who want to shock others, but it happens so infrequently and people like that are immediately removed from a group. Not everyone who wants to dissociate themselves with "Consent for Gaming" is that way, but a lot of people think they are... They must have something to hide, right? To be honest, I just want to run games, have fun, and not feel like I have to be careful because how draining will that be? I'm not trying to deceive anyone, or put people in situations they aren't comfortable in, but I want to run a game that speaks towards realism to some degree. I want my monsters to be horrific, I want my horrible NPCs to be prejudiced. Not because I am such a person, but because I want my players to have a reason to be heroes.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 08:23:30 AM by Graytung »

Antiquation!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #96 on: September 14, 2019, 09:20:56 AM »
Quote from: Graytung;1103981
It's a sad affair. Just look at the behavior of certain woke individuals in that thread. There's at least one non-offensive, intelligent counterpoint among a sea of conformers, and that person is immediately banned. I doubt they even broke any of the rpg.net rules. Power is obviously what some of them want.
Power is exactly what they want, and it's worse than just sad. Let me assist by quoting the banned user:
Quote from: kidkaos2;1103981
It's interesting to me that multiple individuals in this thread have felt the need to point out the race and gender of folks objecting to this consent form. Why exactly does the color of someone's skin or their reproductive organs matter as to their opinion on this topic? What does pointing it out add to the conversation? Should not an opinion stand on its own, regardless of the identity of the person who expresses it? Isn't that part of what equality is all about?
Quote from: Mod;1103981
We've seen this song and dance before, and it's not welcome.

Goodbye.
Hmmmmmmm. Permaban. Strange...
Quote from: Graytung;1103981
I don't think these group-thinking tribalists realize that the path of censorship leads towards a single direction that is a confining space where diversity will not be allowed to flourish. Veto powers will become so intrusive that gaming will get nowhere as laying out the rules is going to become half of the hobby. Rules will only become harsher as this invasive ideology embeds itself deeper into the hobby, because some of them can't help themselves; there will always be someone who won't stop at this product. One step at a time.
Diversity is anathema to their ideology. Cultural and ideological homogenization is their goal despite their cries of inclusivity.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981
Next it will be roll20, Fantasy Grounds and Cons adding consent ideology to their terms of servicerules for attendance and then it will only get worse. You'll be running games for strangers and you'll get flagged for stepping over some line you weren't made aware of without any means of recourse, and it'll be three-strikes and you're out. Everyone is going to be tip-toeing in their games that it's going to be a very limiting experience to want to go out and meet new people in the hobby to play with. And anyone who happens to be on this list of thrice-struck hobbyists won't even be able to attend any con or even have access to sites like roll20 or fantasy grounds.
Eventually yes. Next? No. It will be RPGs themselves. See PF 2e and the X-card sidebar as a nice example of what we have to look forward to.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981
For now, I obviously won't be using it, or introducing it to any of my gaming groups. If someone brings it up I'll say why do we need it now? If they persist, then hopefully they won't sour as we can continue gaming. Sadly, this sort of thing only will create segregation in the long run.
Segregation is their goal. You are a part of the collective or you aren't.
Quote from: Graytung;1103981
As a final thought. Sure there are assholes out there, and edgy people who want to shock others, but it happens so infrequently and people like that are immediately removed from a group. Not everyone who wants to dissociate themselves with "Consent for Gaming" is that way, but a lot of people think they are... They must have something to hide, right? To be honest, I just want to run games, have fun, and not feel like I have to be careful because how draining will that be? I'm not trying to deceive anyone, or put people in situations they aren't comfortable in, but I want to run a game that speaks towards realism to some degree. I want my monsters to be horrific, I want my horrible NPCs to be prejudiced. Not because I am such a person, but because I want my players to have a reason to be heroes.
Entirely realistic, rational and with a good sense of perspective. Sorry but the future is not for you.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 09:25:36 AM by Antiquation! »
If you feel like you might be forming an opinion you are already a danger to yourself and others.

sureshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2107
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #97 on: September 14, 2019, 10:20:12 AM »
Typically of the thought police over at TBP someone who pointed out that those who objected to the form were being called out for objecting to it because of their race and gender was banned. Post # 59. Poor Vincent though he is next as he is being entirely reasonable in pointing out that the so called "consent" form includes  sex , gore and homophobia yet no entry for gender identity or LGBT issues. Apparently those who have issues with gay, lgbt and gender identity issues have no say or should I say consent for those topics allowed into the campaign.

RandyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • R
  • Posts: 958
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #98 on: September 14, 2019, 10:23:30 AM »
Quote from: Aglondir;1103957
Found an interesting bit in that thread (bolding mine):



That's from August 5, 2013. I haven't read the new product, but the bolded sections sound very different from the values expressed in 2019.

"It's Current Day! History is BadWrongThink! Stop shaming people!"

Blergh. I can't keep that up....

Armchair Gamer

  • Enemy of Love and Gaming
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • A
  • Posts: 2282
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #99 on: September 14, 2019, 10:33:39 AM »
Quote from: sureshot;1103990
Typically of the thought police over at TBP someone who pointed out that those who objected to the form were being called out for objecting to it because of their race and gender was banned. Post # 59. Poor Vincent though he is next as he is being entirely reasonable in pointing out that the so called "consent" form includes  sex , gore and homophobia yet no entry for gender identity or LGBT issues. Apparently those who have issues with gay, lgbt and gender identity issues have no say or should I say consent for those topics allowed into the campaign.

   I'm tempted to call for bets on how long Vincent's ban is going to wind up being. :) But his post does highlight that this product probably (again, haven't read it) does contain certain assumptions about what are and aren't 'acceptable' things to be uncomfortable with. Are there any checkboxes for 'active polytheistic gods' or 'realistic occultism', for example? :)

  EDIT: I've looked at the product now, and it seems to be a mix of 'good, common-sense advice,' 'oversensitivity,' and 'you will be made to care,' all against the backdrop of 21st-century [strike]Apostate Western[/strike] progressive assumptions.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 10:51:32 AM by Armchair Gamer »

sureshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2107
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2019, 10:51:55 AM »
Quote from: Graytung;1103981

It's a sad affair. Just look at the behavior of certain woke individuals in that thread. There's at least one non-offensive, intelligent counterpoint among a sea of conformers, and that person is immediately banned. I doubt they even broke any of the rpg.net rules. Power is obviously what some of them want.


The sad part is if you look at the thread at TBP linked in Aglondir post# 91 it was not that bad of place. Now if you don't agree immediately one gets permabanned. The inmates are running the asylum and the guards no only handed them the keys they joined the riot. I expect something like that from the mods. Seeing so many posters who to be part of the cool kids group threw away and and all self-respect to do so is sad. They are so afraid of being permabanned that they rather spout the rhetoric that if you spoke to them privately most don't believe or even agree with most of it.

Of course though out of the two forums somehow we are the worst of course.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981

It's sad, because a common argument I've seen is that you're free to have your own rules in your own gaming groups. People who agree with this sort of thing are free to use it, I personally don't care. However, people who express they would rather opt out are immediately vilified, regardless of the reason for opting out. I'll stay out of your gaming if you stay out of mine.


Having a difference of opinion is becoming a bad thing. Just follow whatever the human SJW herd requires and be happy doing so. I am close to leaving a current gaming group. Tired of traveling to the game as it is at least one hour commute and as soon as I say something they don't like "your an incel, misogynistic, social conservative. The sad part none of the members up until recently gave a crap about social issues. Suddenly it was cool and hip to be an SJW and they jumped on the bandwagon spouting the same poisoned rhetoric. The thing is unlike forum the reality is different. The same gamers think they can and will get the same echo chamber group mind think everywhere they go. More often than not they will be shown the door. Awhile back I saw an Ad on facebook for a 1E D&D game and one of the requirements to join was "if your easily offeneded you won't be a good fit".

Quote from: Graytung;1103981

For now, I obviously won't be using it, or introducing it to any of my gaming groups. If someone brings it up I'll say why do we need it now? If they persist, then hopefully they won't sour as we can continue gaming. Sadly, this sort of thing only will create segregation in the long run.


Neither will I. I treat everyone over the age of 21 as a mature adult. Any issues need to be said and included during session zero. Saying nothing or refusing to say anything means they can either find another table or accept what is in the campaign. I hate the document not for subject. For the fact that it removes any and all personal responsibility for players poor personal decisions. Dislike slavery then why the hell join a campaign where the premise is to rescue npcs out of slavery.  It just screams entitlement. Everyone should have say at the table. Instead it seems "you will accommodate the bothered player and you will bend over backwards and you will do it with a damn smile on your face" . If not you are a terrible group of people.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981

As a final thought. Sure there are assholes out there, and edgy people who want to shock others, but it happens so infrequently and people like that are immediately removed from a group. Not everyone who wants to dissociate themselves with "Consent for Gaming" is that way, but a lot of people think they are... They must have something to hide, right? To be honest, I just want to run games, have fun, and not feel like I have to be careful because how draining will that be? I'm not trying to deceive anyone, or put people in situations they aren't comfortable in, but I want to run a game that speaks towards realism to some degree. I want my monsters to be horrific, I want my horrible NPCs to be prejudiced. Not because I am such a person, but because I want my players to have a reason to be heroes.


Apparently their seems to be huge amount of edgy assholes as it seems every second player over at TBP seeems to have an rpg horror story of some kind. If one does not cater exactly 10000% to such people one is considered racist, homophobic, misogynistic, etc. One cannot win with such people.  If one goes by how entitled most of the posters are over at TBP they think they will simply show up out of the blue to any open game and immediately expect everyone else at the table bend over backwards to accommodate them. The reality is complete opposite.

PWA short for player with unreasonable expectations " I know you told me at session zero this would be a campaign that included Spiders and fighting an avatar of Lolth at the end game.  I don't like Spiders can we change the entire premise of the campaign halfway through the course of it"

DM and everyone else "no you knew coming in what to expect either accept it or find another game"

PWA ( runs off to a gaming forum usually TBP to scream and rant out an rpg horror story)

sureshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2107
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2019, 10:57:18 AM »
For all their so called presenting themselves as being tolerant over at TBP they sure as hell give social conservatives a run for their money. Vincent tried to point out that the list is not very objective and that it should include LGBT and Gender issues as topics that require consent from the group and almost immediately the finger pointing came out along with "what are you a bigot?" style posts. So the consent list is acceptable only as long as it has what they want on it. Otherwise "but my reasons and feelz". Anything they firmly agree and believe has to be left out. "Well too bad we don't care what you think".

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1103995
I'm tempted to call for bets on how long Vincent's ban is going to wind up being.

The mods are so corrupt and power hungry they will give him their stupid " Vincent Takeda has accumulated 50000 warning points on September 14, 2019 with a passive aggressive personal attack post added for good measure.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 11:01:49 AM by sureshot »

Antiquation!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2019, 11:06:19 AM »
Quote from: sureshot;1103999
Apparently their seems to be huge amount of edgy assholes as it seems every second player over at TBP seeems to have an rpg horror story of some kind.
While impossible to verify I largely suspect the majority of these to be works of blatant fiction. Reddit is the poster child for such nonsense fairy tales and exaggerations and reading there, it's generally easy to tell fact from fiction.

Edit: How many internet Brownie points do I get for saying my GM had goblins rape my character, a fellow PC drugged mine, and a player at my table hated gays, women and black people (and then assaulted me physically)?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 11:13:35 AM by Antiquation! »
If you feel like you might be forming an opinion you are already a danger to yourself and others.

sureshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2107
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2019, 11:33:37 AM »
It's not to say DMs and or players have never treated other fellow players poorly. It does happen. I came across a very misogynistic player. The type "womens place is in the kitchen" and other such abhorrent nonsense. The DM warned the player that kind of bullshit would not fly in his campaign the player ignored him. The DM rightfully put him in his place. We had entered the castle of a vampire and came across what looked like to be a mind controlled female npc. The feamle vampire had set her to clean the castle. The dumbass player demanded to know where the head vampire was it was along the lines  of "hey slut tell me where your bitch of a mistress is". The npc refused so he decided to teach her a lesson. He was wearing heavy armor and took of his gauntlet so nothing go in the way of him slapping the npc in her face. As soon as he hit the NPC and the DM said "make a save" I knew he was in trouble. The npc was the vampire and the player hit her no once but three times going from level 7 to 1 in the process.

I think those horror stories are the exception not the norm. I care and respect my fellow players I also expect them to take care of themselves with the appropriate level of maturity. If a player is bothered by spiders we take a time out and see if the DM will change the encounter ( most do ). The idea that the entire sessions comes to a full stop usually does not happen in many home campaigns and probably in most. If it were to happen in mine we may take 15-30 minutes to talk it over and console the player. After that it's game on. It is hard enough to game at my age and I'm not going to cancel an entire session worth of gaming. The player will be asked if they can continue if not they will go home. Hence the horror stories. Even then the idea of someone who suffers anixety from say a Spider playing in a campaign where such enemies will be common seems to be wanting to be a victim. I don't like campaigns that include sexual assualt. I don't force myself to play.

I remember reading on a forum not sure which one where a DM had a player have an almost full emotional breakdown over a npc dog having been killed during a fight. Unless it's a real dog I don't suffer from any of that. Same thing over at TBP where someone in the same thread admits to requiring a full day to recover from a virtual book burning. I love books yet I'm not going to suffer PTSD from fake books being burnt. To me that is not normal behavior.

Antiquation!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
    • View Profile
A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2019, 11:52:14 AM »
Quote from: sureshot;1104004
I think those horror stories are the exception not the norm.

In short, yeah, this. Shit happens and there are dickheads walking around. Baby, bathwater, etc.

P.S. Many people have traumas of one sort or another, myself included. GROW THE FUCK UP. BE AN ADULT. Do NOT expect others to change your diaper. Engage with others and some element of risk in your chosen activities, or don't. Your choice. Not the obligation of every person around you.
If you feel like you might be forming an opinion you are already a danger to yourself and others.