TheRPGSite

Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Gagarth on September 12, 2019, 07:42:30 AM

Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Gagarth on September 12, 2019, 07:42:30 AM
I can't wait to unleash this (https://www.montecookgames.com/consent-in-gaming/) on my players.  

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3831[/ATTACH]
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 07:44:42 AM
https://www.montecookgames.com/consent-in-gaming/

Tackle Mature Content with Confidence!

From fending off an attack by bloodthirsty pirates to delving into dank caverns, roleplaying games allow you to explore and experience things you probably don’t want to face in real life—or to approach topics from the perspective of characters who may be very different than your actual self. This shared experience is intended to be fun for all involved, but RPGs can put characters in life-or-death crises, intense emotional situations, or traumatic environments. Whether it’s body horror in a scary game, violence against children or animals in a fantasy world, flirty, romantic, or sexual relationships in any setting—or numerous other challenging scenarios—the line between fun and awkward, difficult, or downright unpleasant can be difficult to identify, and varies dramatically from player to player.

Mature or controversial elements can and should be a part of many RPGs. But how do you know what topics to include or leave out of your games? How do you include potentially difficult elements while ensuring that nobody’s game night is ruined? Consent in Gaming gives you the strategies you need to make sure everyone at the table has a great experience, even when the game goes in a challenging direction.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
It's free, so I'm downloading it now.

Re the cover pic, well they could have gone with a Harvey Weinstein lookalike neckbeard GM describing his rape fantasies to a gaggle of horrified rainbow-haired female/minority/differently-abled & LGBTQI players...
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 07:56:49 AM
Reading it now...

They shouldn't threaten to kick that person
out of the group if they decide not to play
this game.


Yes, but if a player doesn't want to do X and everyone else does want to do X, that player should gracefully step out of the room. They could leave just for a scene, or for a whole campaign. The game should not be dependent on the wishes of the most easily triggered player.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Gagarth on September 12, 2019, 07:59:15 AM
Quote from: S'mon;1103597
Reading it now...

They shouldn't threaten to kick that person
out of the group if they decide not to play
this game.


Yes, but if a player doesn't want to do X and everyone else does want to do X, that player should gracefully step out of the room. They could leave just for a scene, or for a whole campaign. The game should not be dependent on the wishes of the most easily triggered player.

Not if goldfish are involved.  Then the game should be stopped and the traumatised player should be taken to the nearest mental health professional.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 08:08:06 AM
Quote from: Gagarth;1103598
Not if goldfish are involved.  Then the game should be stopped and the traumatised player should be taken to the nearest mental health professional.

:D Yeah I saw that.

It basically starts off ok, then goes off the deep end around page 5.

Page 10:
Your game group needs to make you feel safe. This is a step beyond just being comfortable to play
the game. This is a safe space free of hassle, harassment, negativity, judgment...
-Your Best Game Ever


Uh, no. I'll stick with the Five Geek Social Fallacies. The D&D table is for playing D&D, not a mutual support group.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shasarak on September 12, 2019, 08:14:40 AM
If we use this product then that nicely solves the problem of the Gnomish Kings with one simple use of the X card.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 08:19:12 AM
I'm wondering if the first 4 pages were by Sean K Reynolds and 5-13 by Shanna Germain. There is a pretty strong change of tone. Going by the initial 4 pages I was expecting a reasonable discussion of including mature content from both player & GM perspective; instead it goes off into Safe Space-ism, X-cards and mandatory Consent checklists.

What really bugs me is that there is almost no discussion of reasonable behaviour from the easily-Triggered; it does say 'tell them you're triggered' and 'you have a right to leave', but there is no indication you have a duty to leave if your dislike of X is hurting other people's fun. I guess that ties in with Safe Space culture - a space you might need to leave isn't Safe.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 08:21:42 AM
Quote from: Shasarak;1103600
If we use this product then that nicely solves the problem of the Gnomish Kings with one simple use of the X card.

But what if the Gnay Gnome fetishist X-cards your X-card? :eek:
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 12, 2019, 10:23:22 AM
Quote from: S'mon;1103596
It's free, so I'm downloading it now.

Re the cover pic, well they could have gone with a Harvey Weinstein lookalike neckbeard GM describing his rape fantasies to a gaggle of horrified rainbow-haired female/minority/differently-abled & LGBTQI players...

Not gonna give them my info sorry.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Trond on September 12, 2019, 10:29:35 AM
"thanks for filling out the consent form. Now everyone, calculate your anal circumference"
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: AmazingOnionMan on September 12, 2019, 10:29:35 AM
You hang your X-card on the door and inform the participants whose degree of functionality is uncertain that usage of the X-card will also involve usage of the door, and that said door will only work one way.
Then proceed to enjoy the game.  
I realize that this flies in the face of "they shouldn't threaten to kick that person out of the group if they decide not to play this game", but such is life.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 10:40:35 AM
Quote from: AmazingOnionMan;1103617
I realize that this flies in the face of "they shouldn't threaten to kick that person out of the group if they decide not to play this game"

Seems to me the appropriate approach is:

"OK this is a Goblinslayer based game, we all want to play it, so it is gonna include those things you dislike. You're welcome back when we run something different."
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Graewulf on September 12, 2019, 12:00:31 PM
Another 'woke' joke. Catering to thin-skinned candyasses. That's all this is. What a bunch of bullshit. lol
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 12, 2019, 12:02:13 PM
I do not consent to someone lecturing me about consent in table top RPGing.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Haffrung on September 12, 2019, 12:34:41 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1103595
https://www.montecookgames.com/consent-in-gaming/

Tackle Mature Content with Confidence!

From fending off an attack by bloodthirsty pirates to delving into dank caverns...

Paging Doctor Freud.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 12, 2019, 12:42:34 PM
Is there hair on the walls of the dank cavern? What's that smell?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: RandyB on September 12, 2019, 12:51:28 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103631
Is there hair on the walls of the dank cavern? What's that smell?

Just around the entrance. Don't touch the growths on the walls.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: moonsweeper on September 12, 2019, 01:23:40 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103631
Is there hair on the walls of the dank cavern? What's that smell?

Quote from: RandyB;1103634
Just around the entrance. Don't touch the growths on the walls.

I'm stealing this as inspiration for the next adventure I put together for my players...
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 12, 2019, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1103636
I'm stealing this as inspiration for the next adventure I put together for my players...

Ah yes, the Giger approach to adventure building...
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on September 12, 2019, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Gagarth;1103594
I can't wait to unleash this (https://www.montecookgames.com/consent-in-gaming/) on my players.

Shanna Germain. Ugh.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 12, 2019, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1103656
Shanna Germain. Ugh.

Seems to be Jeff's kinda gal - https://www.amazon.co.uk/As-Kinky-You-Wanna-Be/dp/1627780629

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3832[/ATTACH]
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: jeff37923 on September 12, 2019, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1103657
Seems to be Jeff's kinda gal - https://www.amazon.co.uk/As-Kinky-You-Wanna-Be/dp/1627780629

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3832[/ATTACH]


Quote from: From Shanna Germain's Bio on Amazon

First and foremost, Shanna Germain is a leximaven of the highest order, exploring her love of the written word through a multitude of formats and styles. Shanna (pronounced like 'Shaun' with a sigh of pleasure at the end or like 'fauna' with a shh in the front) also claims the titles of: girl, gamer geek, wanderluster, flower picker, tire kicker, knife licker, she-devil, vorpal blonde and Schrödinger's brat.

With a whole lot of writing years under her belt (or her collar, depending on the day), Shanna's poems, essays, short stories, novellas, articles and more have found homes in hundreds of magazines, newspapers, books and websites.

An Associate Fellow at the Attic Institute in Portland, OR, she has taught classes in writing, publishing, media and photography at a wide variety of places. She's even garnered an award here and there, including a Pushcart nomination, the Rauxa Prize for Erotic Poetry and the C. Hamilton Bailey Poetry Fellowship. She keeps her ego in a tiny glass jar and feeds it drops of sea water and baby crickets so that it will never outgrow its cage.


Ahh, no. I'll pass.

(Honestly, any advice on consent needs to stop at 'does it follow the thumbrule of Safe, Sane, and Consensual'. Any tips, tricks, or elaboration beyond that is just mental masturbation be it Role-Playing Games or BDSM Play.)
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brad on September 12, 2019, 03:59:09 PM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3833[/ATTACH]
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Mankcam on September 12, 2019, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1103600
If we use this product then that nicely solves the problem of the Gnomish Kings with one simple use of the X card.
My thoughts exactly !!!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 12, 2019, 04:29:56 PM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1103636
I'm stealing this as inspiration for the next adventure I put together for my players...


The mountain dungeon they thought they were entering was secretly the rear-entrance of the sleeping Tarrasque!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Mankcam on September 12, 2019, 04:31:55 PM
Honestly, why does this book exist?

Its like they expect that people can no longer think for themselves and work shit out amongst themselves

Oh hang on, the amount of dipshits I see on a daily basis walking across the roads whilst reading their smartphones, I guess its for them
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 12, 2019, 04:32:04 PM
That lady's bio is the most unintentionally hilarious copy I've read in some time. It reads to me like her ego, in its salt-encrusted cricket-head laden prison vial wrote it as a plea to end its miserable life.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on September 12, 2019, 05:12:25 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1103615
Not gonna give them my info sorry.


Don't dox me, Bro!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 12, 2019, 06:00:32 PM
Quote from: Mankcam;1103674
[...] Its like they expect that people can no longer think for themselves [...] Oh hang on, the amount of dipshits I see on a daily basis walking across the roads whilst reading their smartphones, I guess its for them
:p Nailed it!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brendan on September 12, 2019, 07:12:53 PM
I remember debating the X card nonsense on the CoC FB page.  Now someone just posted a link to this bullshit on the Earthdawn FB group.  Buckle up.  

As an aside, GrimJim made a pretty good critique:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYFVNduyLMc
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: jhkim on September 12, 2019, 09:13:51 PM
OK, I've played in a bunch of games with the X-card and haven't had any problems, but there are a bunch of things that bug me in this. I'm generally skeptical but agnostic about most of psychology. If it helps people live their lives, good for them - but I often don't buy into it for myself. If people want to play with an X-card, that's they're business. If they have fun using it, then more power to them. However, like with everything else in gaming, it's just a particular style -- not the One True Way of role-playing.

Some particular issues I have with this document:

1) This document purports to be general advice about consent in gaming, rather than an optional tool.

2) The text pretty regularly changes between consent, comfort, and safety. They are pretty regularly interchanged, but they are very different things. For example, the first bolded point is "You decide what's safe for you." That's clearly wrong. You decide what you consent to, and you decide what you're comfortable with, but safety is about objective harm. Further, you can consent to things that are uncomfortable for you - or even harmful.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: cenmarik on September 12, 2019, 09:52:23 PM
Crunchy consent. Perfect for storygamers not wanting systems to limit their creativity.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Bradford C. Walker on September 12, 2019, 10:46:42 PM
I'll take my gaming without Struggle Sessions. All this Little Red Book does is tell me who needs to be shut out and who to let pass.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Razor 007 on September 12, 2019, 11:38:56 PM
There is no X card at my table.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Snowman0147 on September 12, 2019, 11:58:15 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103673
The mountain dungeon they thought they were entering was secretly the rear-entrance of the sleeping Tarrasque!


[ATTACH=CONFIG]3835[/ATTACH]

When you know you entered the wrong dungeon.  The very wrong dungeon.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 13, 2019, 12:04:26 AM
Quote from: Razor 007;1103735
There is no X card at my table.

I only accept Grim Jim's M-Card at my table.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Graytung on September 13, 2019, 03:50:51 AM
Within 5 years, d&d games will last 2 hours, but you'll only get 30 minutes worth of gaming.

The rest of the time people will be saying stuff like:

Point of privilege... Please stop celebrating when you score a critical hit, instead can we just wave our hands around like normal people?

Point of privilege... You called that naked ogre with his slong hanging out a he; STOP USING GENDERED LANGUAGE YOU FREAK!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 13, 2019, 05:36:09 AM
I think that understanding this product treats RPGing as a form of BDSM interaction, with GM as the Dom and players as the subs, explains a lot of where they're coming from.

Of course normal RPGing is not a lot like BDSM, and so most of the advice here is highly inappropriate.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: jeff37923 on September 13, 2019, 06:29:05 AM
Quote from: S'mon;1103764
I think that understanding this product treats RPGing as a form of BDSM interaction, with GM as the Dom and players as the subs, explains a lot of where they're coming from.

Of course normal RPGing is not a lot like BDSM, and so most of the advice here is highly inappropriate.

Conversely, most BDSM play is not like RPGing.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 13, 2019, 07:07:52 AM
Quote from: Razor 007;1103735
There is no X card at my table.


Mine neither not as long as the flawed implementation of the X-card requires the person using it to not mention what bothers them. Sorry but my session is not coming to a full stop because something bothers player XYZ and they refuse to talk about it.

Quote from: Graytung;1103752
Within 5 years, d&d games will last 2 hours, but you'll only get 30 minutes worth of gaming.

The rest of the time people will be saying stuff like:

Point of privilege... Please stop celebrating when you score a critical hit, instead can we just wave our hands around like normal people?

Point of privilege... You called that naked ogre with his slong hanging out a he; STOP USING GENDERED LANGUAGE YOU FREAK!


Sad part is I can see that happen. Fortunately it will never happen at any tables I run or play. As such players will be asked to leave and never return. Or I leave the table as fast as I can.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: BrokenCounsel on September 13, 2019, 09:13:01 AM
Is it possible to virtue signal any harder? It's so hip, woke and on fucking trend, it hurts.

Watch this fucking thing scoop up every Ennie going at GenCon next year.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brendan on September 13, 2019, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: Graytung;1103752
Within 5 years, d&d games will last 2 hours, but you'll only get 30 minutes worth of gaming.

The rest of the time people will be saying stuff like:

Point of privilege... Please stop celebrating when you score a critical hit, instead can we just wave our hands around like normal people?

Point of privilege... You called that naked ogre with his slong hanging out a he; STOP USING GENDERED LANGUAGE YOU FREAK!


Accurate, if they win.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brendan on September 13, 2019, 12:26:49 PM
I suspect the groups who "use the X-card" and have had "no problems" aren't REALLY using it.  I think instead they are using it as a kind of magic feather for people to clutch and not actually use, or it is being used as something akin to a "raised hand".    

DM: "As you enter the room you see a naked corpse covered in rats..."

[Player throws the X-card.  Everyone stops and looks at her.]

Player: "I...uh... I have a thing about rats.  Can we just not describe them in great detail, please?"

DM: "Okay, sure, no problem.  They scurry away when the light from your torches hits them anyway.  Along the wall you see..."

The problem with this is that it means the X-card is nothing more than a substitute for normal human social interaction.  Its basically meaningless.  The player still has to interrupt the flow of the game.  They still have to explain what it is that they have a problem with, and they still have to negotiate with the group to find a suitable resolution.  All of this can be easily accomplished without anything as awkward and strange as throwing a card down on the table.

But the X-card isn't meant to just be a non-verbal "pause button".  It's supposed to be contract that allows player veto, WITHOUT negotiation or justification. These stupid "consent lists" are exactly the same thing, only specifying in advance rather than in situ.

I also don't see how this will solve any actual problems at the table.  Take the recent issue with convention game where the characters were drugged and "came to" without pants on, covered in poo and having "sore bottoms".  They were so triggered by this that they complained to the convention and the DM was banned for life.  Apparently he intended this scenario to convey that the characters had explosive diarrhea due to the drug that knocked them out.  Now, this is stupid, sophomoric and gross, IMO.  But the players were triggered because they thought their characters had been the victims of rape, not of severe indigestion.  Therefore a "consent form" with a check in the "rape" box would not have solved the problem.  The DM still would have done the stupid scene and the players still would have been "triggered" due to the, somewhat understandable, misinterpretation.  Moreover, no one paused the game or walked away from the table. An X-Card wouldn't have "saved them" from the social pressure of interrupting the game flow.  Someone still would have had to summon up the courage to stop the game and call attention to the issue.  

At some point you have to trust that your players have enough personal agency to speak up if something bothers them, and players have to trust that the DM isn't trying to psychically attack them.  I don't see how an X-Card of a consent list or any other such mechanism removes the need for basic social skills.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 12:55:20 PM
LOL X-card?

Seriously that's some funny infantile shit. These people need to back away from the gaming table - and maybe all tables. They need to turn off their TV's, get off of the internet, go play Outside(tm) the biggest MMO ever. And get some therapy to teach them how "Adulting" works.

Now all unreality aside - this is why in my campaigns when I advertise for spots in my game I do not allow minors or spectators. If I'm GMing for kids, I set my games accordingly. Why is this rocket-science to these infantilized imbeciles?

Or... its just power-dynamics meta-roleplaying. The real game is when to play the X-card and be offended for Virtue-al XP.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brendan on September 13, 2019, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103822
Or... its just power-dynamics meta-roleplaying. The real game is when to play the X-card and be offended for Virtue-al XP.

Bingo.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: crkrueger on September 13, 2019, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103822
LOL X-card?

Seriously that's some funny infantile shit. These people need to back away from the gaming table - and maybe all tables. They need to turn off their TV's, get off of the internet, go play Outside(tm) the biggest MMO ever. And get some therapy to teach them how "Adulting" works.

Now all unreality aside - this is why in my campaigns when I advertise for spots in my game I do not allow minors or spectators. If I'm GMing for kids, I set my games accordingly. Why is this rocket-science to these infantilized imbeciles?

Or... its just power-dynamics meta-roleplaying. The real game is when to play the X-card and be offended for Virtue-al XP.

DING! Winnah!

It's all about social power, control and narcissism.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 13, 2019, 02:18:31 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;1103835
DING! Winnah!

It's all about social power, control and narcissism.

Yes, which is why the suggestion of a need for an X-Card is a marker that the player isn't a fit for any group I'm in.  Or if bad enough situation, a sign that I'm not a fit for the group.  Either way, I'm not playing with player X.  

So the only thing the X-Card is actually good for is filtering out incompatible players before the group starts.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: crkrueger on September 13, 2019, 02:28:35 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1103840
Yes, which is why the suggestion of a need for an X-Card is a marker that the player isn't a fit for any group I'm in.  Or if bad enough situation, a sign that I'm not a fit for the group.  Either way, I'm not playing with player X.  

So the only thing the X-Card is actually good for is filtering out incompatible players before the group starts.

Yeah.  It's like going to an FLGS and asking a table if this is a Safe Space.  If they say Yes, keep walking.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: jhkim on September 13, 2019, 02:33:15 PM
Quote from: Brendan;1103820
I suspect the groups who "use the X-card" and have had "no problems" aren't REALLY using it.  I think instead they are using it as a kind of magic feather for people to clutch and not actually use, or it is being used as something akin to a "raised hand".    

DM: "As you enter the room you see a naked corpse covered in rats..."

[Player throws the X-card.  Everyone stops and looks at her.]

Player: "I...uh... I have a thing about rats.  Can we just not describe them in great detail, please?"

DM: "Okay, sure, no problem.  They scurry away when the light from your torches hits them anyway.  Along the wall you see..."

The problem with this is that it means the X-card is nothing more than a substitute for normal human social interaction.  Its basically meaningless.
I've played in probably two dozen games that were played with an X-card, mostly at local convention games, where a bunch of area GMs use it. During that time, I can recall only one time when it was used - and the use was pretty much just like you describe. It didn't take a lot of time, and I feel it's mostly extraneous, but also not the horrendous problem that some people have characterized it as.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 13, 2019, 02:43:57 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;1103835
DING! Winnah!

It's all about social power, control and narcissism.

  Wait, I thought objecting to this kind of stuff was about social power, control and privilege? ;)

  (I haven't read the product, so I can't speak to it one way or another. My instinct is to go with "discuss things that might be a problem beforehand if you're aware of them, speak up if something comes up in play, and act with charity, sensitivity, and the assumption of good faith whether you're player, DM, complainant, or recipient of complaints." Unfortunately, sensitivity and the assumption of good faith are hard to come by in our Age of Solipsism and Unreason.)
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brad on September 13, 2019, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1103848
I've played in probably two dozen games that were played with an X-card, mostly at local convention games, where a bunch of area GMs use it. During that time, I can recall only one time when it was used - and the use was pretty much just like you describe. It didn't take a lot of time, and I feel it's mostly extraneous, but also not the horrendous problem that some people have characterized it as.

Then what's the point? Some sort of focus for social inept people?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 02:45:20 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1103848
I've played in probably two dozen games that were played with an X-card, mostly at local convention games, where a bunch of area GMs use it. During that time, I can recall only one time when it was used - and the use was pretty much just like you describe. It didn't take a lot of time, and I feel it's mostly extraneous, but also not the horrendous problem that some people have characterized it as.

Taken as a convention-specific example, I still find it unnecessary, but whatever.

But that's not how it works in real life when its promoted *as* an element of play. That is the point of formalizing this as a PDF for dissemination to the populace at large. Otherwise what is the point of it if not to make it a conditional requirement - if only passively.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 03:25:21 PM
Lol, the thread on this product over at TBP is full of gems and insightful commentary as usual. Fucking toxic cishet white males and their stranglehold on power dynamics, attacking and dogpiling on the disenfranchised PoC and marginalized LGBTQ gamers! BLOCKED!!! Session zero never ends, FACT!!!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monte-cooks-consent-in-gaming-hits-shelves-poop-hits-fans.852440/
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
Why? WHY? WHHHHY did I look at that thread?

It's like peering into a pre-K classroom where the teacher has passed out drunk, and all the kids have started chugging from her magic Kool-Aid thermos... and are running wild.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: MostlyReadRarelyPlay on September 13, 2019, 03:33:53 PM
Yall need the words of Dr. Chuck Tingle. (https://twitter.com/ChuckTingle/status/1172570602428723200) Are you this unpleasant around your spouses as well or are you just playing e-toughguy?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 03:34:14 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103859
It's like peering into a pre-K classroom where the teacher has passed out drunk, and all the kids have started chugging from her magic Kool-Aid thermos... and are running wild.

Mostly; primary difference being a bunch of drunk pre-K schoolkids are likely still not so paranoid/loony as to believe all the other schoolchildren are trying to traumatize, imprison and/or murder them...
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: VengerSatanis on September 13, 2019, 03:36:26 PM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1103858
Lol, the thread on this product over at TBP is full of gems and insightful commentary as usual. Fucking toxic cishet white males and their stranglehold on power dynamics, attacking and dogpiling on the disenfranchised PoC and marginalized LGBTQ gamers! BLOCKED!!! Session zero never ends, FACT!!!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monte-cooks-consent-in-gaming-hits-shelves-poop-hits-fans.852440/

What a bunch of assholes.

VS
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 13, 2019, 03:36:43 PM
Quote from: MostlyReadRarelyPlay;1103860
Yall need the words of Dr. Chuck Tingle. (https://twitter.com/ChuckTingle/status/1172570602428723200) Are you this unpleasant around your spouses as well or are you just playing e-toughguy?

Don't know but when did you stopped molesting children?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 03:45:03 PM
Quote from: MostlyReadRarelyPlay;1103860
Yall need the words of Dr. Chuck Tingle. (https://twitter.com/ChuckTingle/status/1172570602428723200) Are you this unpleasant around your spouses as well or are you just playing e-toughguy?
Huh? Who's playing tough guy? :confused:
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Clearly somebody is RPing in their minds... they made an account to challenge the headmates bullying them with their virtual presence online.

Rent-free baby! Rent-free!

Hey! the room-service here sucks.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103867
Clearly somebody is RPing in their minds... they made an account to challenge the headmates bullying them with their virtual presence online.

Rent-free baby! Rent-free!

Hey! the room-service here sucks.

Well, it's confusing and I think you must be right about the mental RPing, because I don't see any 'tough guy' behavior; just a bunch of people laughing at the absurdity...
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: jhkim on September 13, 2019, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: jhkim
I've played in probably two dozen games that were played with an X-card, mostly at local convention games, where a bunch of area GMs use it. During that time, I can recall only one time when it was used - and the use was pretty much just like you describe. It didn't take a lot of time, and I feel it's mostly extraneous, but also not the horrendous problem that some people have characterized it as.
Quote from: Brad;1103850
Then what's the point? Some sort of focus for social inept people?
I think the intent is that people see it as a sort of safety net, and reassurance that player problems will be handled with care. Which I suppose could be called a focus.

I'm not particularly trying to defend it - just describe my experience with it. I disliked the "Consent in Games" booklet that was described in the OP. I don't use the X-card in games that I GM -- unless it's written into the system's rules (namely Bluebeard's Bride), in which case I use it for convention games since players expect it.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brad on September 13, 2019, 04:07:59 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1103869
I think the intent is that people see it as a sort of safety net, and reassurance that player problems will be handled with care. Which I suppose could be called a focus.

The way you describe it sounds literally like Dumbo's magic feather...I get it, some people just suck at social interaction, BUT, even Dumbo eventually learned he could fly by himself. I don't think these X card advocates have any desire to gain a semblance personal growth and become normal people.

Also, these are games we're talking about, right? When I was a kid, if some other kid was an asshole we just didn't play with them anymore. How hard is that?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
Yep.

You know... it occurred to me. And I'd offer it as proof against the obvious bullshit virtue-signalling this so-called "product" tries to represent and DIRECTLY at the pathetic excuses those people in that thread claim the following:  

"it's more likely abuser rage; they react with overwhelming anger at anything that might disrupt their toxic relationships and ability to control their tables, because naturally, anyone who sees it is likely to break free of the toxicity and ruin their power fantasies. I've become rather suspicious of anyone who starts screaming when told to care about their players."

"It's for the same reason that white people freak out when we get told we can't say the n-word: part of our privilege is that unlike everyone else, we are used to being able to say whatever we want with no consequences."

To put it bluntly, cishet abled white men have often been able to ignore other people's comfort level at the table and sit securely in the reality that their own is unlikely to be challenged. Introducing consent tools forces us to consider other people in a way we have historically been privileged to ignore. It spotlights our own privilege and the ways in which power dynamics tend to favor us, and we don't like that.

The *very* act of running your game without using this document is under the pretense of these asshats immediately impugning *anyone* that doesn't pass this litmus test with these assumptions. This is before a word has been spoken, a die tossed, or a pencil lifted.

So it struck me... how vile and disingenuous this is... because I simply have to ask: If the intent is for everyone to get along, but they're *already* thinking these things of *EVERYONE*  - as the default if you don't jump through the hoop for them - why limit it to just gaming? Why not have consent forms for *everything*? Writing on forums? Texting? etc.

Which is rhetorical - because we already know none of this matters: because they already think this of you. And if you try to point out the disingenuous and insane implications of these views, they've already got their menu of retorts - like if I point out to them, I'm not White, but I disagree with this practice because it's not about making people comfortable - it's about control. I'd be labeled a token-Asian or some dumb shit. They already feel this way about anyone that believes other than they do.

They clearly *don't* really want to get along with anyone that may believe other than they do. They already have their spears and bows pointed at you: abuser, racist, ableist, phobe. Take our test or else.

Power and Control.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 04:15:40 PM
The hilarious thing missing from this is simple:

At no point do they take any responsibility for their own participation in the act - or the possibility they're incorrect in the application of their ideas.


Because that's not really what the intent is for.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 04:21:52 PM
tenbones nailed it, way better than I could have articulated. Only thing I would add is that even if you *do* drink the kool aid or fake your way through the litmus test, you're still not safe: it's like putting on an explosive collar. Make one false step and you're summarily and mercilessly "excommunicated," regardless of how far you try to run. In some ways it's almost more dangerous than being one of "The Enemy."
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brad on September 13, 2019, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103871
"it's more likely abuser rage; they react with overwhelming anger at anything that might disrupt their toxic relationships and ability to control their tables, because naturally, anyone who sees it is likely to break free of the toxicity and ruin their power fantasies. I've become rather suspicious of anyone who starts screaming when told to care about their players."

"It's for the same reason that white people freak out when we get told we can't say the n-word: part of our privilege is that unlike everyone else, we are used to being able to say whatever we want with no consequences."

To put it bluntly, cishet abled white men have often been able to ignore other people's comfort level at the table and sit securely in the reality that their own is unlikely to be challenged. Introducing consent tools forces us to consider other people in a way we have historically been privileged to ignore. It spotlights our own privilege and the ways in which power dynamics tend to favor us, and we don't like that.

Not really sure what I'm reading here...break free of what? Are they being forced to play the WHITE MAN'S D&D campaign at gunpoint or something? Any normal person reading this might come to the conclusion they were all forced to roll dice in Dachau, and any dissenters were shipped off to the gas chambers.

Seriously, wtf...this is the most delusional bullshit I've ever read. It's the babbling of a schizophrenic who believes everyone is out to get them or something.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 04:29:22 PM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1103877
tenbones nailed it, way better than I could have articulated. Only thing I would add is that even if you *do* drink the kool aid or fake your way through the litmus test, you're still not safe: it's like putting on an explosive collar. Make one false step and you're summarily and mercilessly "excommunicated," regardless of how far you try to run. In some ways it's almost more dangerous than being one of "The Enemy."

Oh for sure! If you play their meta-game then you're now part of their paranoid fantasy and don't you dare step out of line. Apostasy = Cancellation+
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 04:29:39 PM
Quote from: Brad;1103882
It's the babbling of a schizophrenic who believes everyone is out to get them or something.
It's worth considering that TBP likely has a higher-than-typical ratio of of users on... exotic... medications. So it's not entirely improbable.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 13, 2019, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103871
"it's more likely abuser rage; they react with overwhelming anger at anything that might disrupt their toxic relationships and ability to control their tables, because naturally, anyone who sees it is likely to break free of the toxicity and ruin their power fantasies. "

Yeah, those poor girls who come to my table every week to be toxically abused. Every time my green dragon breathes on their PC for 42 hp (save for half) and takes her to 0 hp again, it's an act of toxic poison rape.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: Brad;1103882
Not really sure what I'm reading here...break free of what? Are they being forced to play the WHITE MAN'S D&D campaign at gunpoint or something? Any normal person reading this might come to the conclusion they were all forced to roll dice in Dachau, and any dissenters were shipped off to the gas chambers.

Seriously, wtf...this is the most delusional bullshit I've ever read. It's the babbling of a schizophrenic who believes everyone is out to get them or something.

That's the whole religious aspect of this perspective. They're so tightly bound into their dogma - they perceive everyone else as "trapped" in their CIS-WHITE-EVIL-Male-Abuser mentality...

Even when many of us are not all of those things - they boiled down the criteria into their straw-boogeyman that exists like Satan does to other religious fundamentalists in the west.

But have no fear - they're the Chosen People. Always gotta have the Chosen People. Such is the Grace of Wokeness.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brad on September 13, 2019, 04:33:53 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103886
That's the whole religious aspect of this perspective. They're so tightly bound into their dogma - they perceive everyone else as "trapped" in their CIS-WHITE-EVIL-Male-Abuser mentality...

Even when many of us are not all of those things - they boiled down the criteria into their straw-boogeyman that exists like Satan does to other religious fundamentalists in the west.

But have no fear - they're the Chosen People. Always gotta have the Chosen People. Such is the Grace of Wokeness.

So basically, they're not personally responsible for any of their problems (of which there are many). Got it.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1103885
Yeah, those poor girls who come to my table every week to be toxically abused. Every time my green dragon breathes on their PC for 42 hp (save for half) and takes her to 0 hp again, it's an act of toxic poison rape.

LOL right. This is exactly why I say, with all seriousness... if they *truly* believe this, they should walk away from the Internet, Social Media in general, most forms of entertainment. DEFINITELY roleplaying games. And get some therapy. LOTS of it.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 04:36:32 PM
Quote from: Brad;1103887
So basically, they're not personally responsible for any of their problems (of which there are many). Got it.

Are the Chosen People ever responsible for the sins of being CIS-Able? And if you have the great Sin of being White too - then you have only one recourse... to earn the Ally Achievement.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103886
That's the whole religious aspect of this perspective. They're so tightly bound into their dogma - they perceive everyone else as "trapped" in their CIS-WHITE-EVIL-Male-Abuser mentality...
Reminds me of all those videos of white college people freaking out about random stuff they project onto others, like some white guy wearing ("appropriating") a sombrero and fake moustache on Halloween, then a bunch of actual Mexicans seeing it and just going "actually it's pretty funny, he looks good, wait what? I'm confused, why is it offensive?"

Imagine thinking your hobby is so "infested" that all you can do is scream and yell online about it under the illusion you're progressing the hobby somehow, while everyone else just chuckles to themselves and keeps playing their games...
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 13, 2019, 04:51:18 PM
But as you've already seen...

in their minds we're being "internet tough-guys" simply by dint of laughing at the absurdity of it all.

I am curious how much of them are on prescription-Meth? It's gotta be a pretty high ratio.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 13, 2019, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1103888
LOL right. This is exactly why I say, with all seriousness... if they *truly* believe this, they should walk away from the Internet, Social Media in general, most forms of entertainment. DEFINITELY roleplaying games. And get some therapy. LOTS of it.


Right.  So the book is the X-Card on steroids:  Completely unnecessary for any even minimally well-adjusted person, and completely inadequate for anyone that can't clear that low bar.  

Sooner or later, one of these projecting flakes is going to have a true psychotic in their games.  They are going to try to treat with RPG, which almost as stupid as the infamous "self-medicate my problem with cocaine" strategy.  The damn fools ought to be charged with life malpractice.  This is going to go badly, and we'll be lucky to get out alive.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Melan on September 13, 2019, 05:28:32 PM
Well, you know. While the easiest (and perhaps most healthy) reaction would be to laugh at this foolish nonsense, I believe it needs to be taken seriously enough to refute it, because there are many - too many - people who take it seriously. My take, which I originally formulated way back around 2008-2009, when this thing first cropped up seriously (yup, mostly on RPGNet and various indie games - what a surprise, right?), in four points:

1) The tendency to construct a terrible negative stereotype of gamers as unwashed basement dwellers waiting to rape, traumatise and trigger their fellow players is a projection, mostly based on cherry-picked extreme examples, Internet tall tales, and deliberate attacks on out-groups (note it is always "those people" who need to be reined in or driven out of the hobby outright, not "us"). It tries to pretend the outliers are the norm, that our hobby is a terrible hellscape swarming with perverts and nazis, and proposes to fix the problem by targeting the average gamer instead of the few genuine bad apples.

2) Documents (and arguments) like this one reek of low trust and really uncharitable assumptions about your fellow gamers. If this is how you perceive the people you play with, then you are probably better off not playing with them at all. I sure wouldn't. If there was no trust, this attitude does not contribute to building it; and if there is trust, it is sure to introduce mutual distrust into the mix.

3) Rules don't genuinely fix people problems. Only people can fix people problems (this sometimes involves hard/uncomfortable choices, yeah). This requires communication. Communication takes effort, and it can be messy, but it is the only method that can promise genuine results. In the end, people are either reasonable, and "don't be a dick" or "let's avoid this issue" will work, or they are not, in which case X-cards and checklists are just a piece of paper. Worse, they allow control freaks and pedants to take control of the argument (which I am sure is why RPGNet loves this shit).

4) In a more general sense: role-playing games are a social hobby. Uncommonly social in our age! It is based on sitting down with people, inviting people into your home (or at least sharing a common space), communication, interaction and all that. We are perhaps not used to this anymore, but in any case, playing a tabletop RPG does involve a degree of sharing that's not usual in our super-isolated digital age. I think this feature, even if it comes with some inevitable personal friction, is worth preserving. And this is better accomplished by techniques that rely on mutual trust, generosity, and good-faith arguments
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 05:41:17 PM
Quote from: Melan;1103903
Well, you know. While the easiest (and perhaps most healthy) reaction would be to laugh at this foolish nonsense, I believe it needs to be taken seriously enough to refute it, because there are many - too many - people who take it seriously. My take, [...]

Hm, these are really solid points. #1 particularly I hadn't really considered; could the mere existence and supposition of these tools actually scare people away from the hobby that these very tools are intended to draw in to the hobby and support? "What the hell, there's a chance my DM could virtual-rape my character and there's even a designated card so I can keep that from happening?! And roleplaying games are dangerous and require ongoing pseudoscientific armchair psychology to play 'safely'? Erm, maybe I'll just go back to the roleplay servers on Gmod..."
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: jeff37923 on September 13, 2019, 05:42:17 PM
A bit of an aside, but wasn't Monte Cook declared persona non grata by the safe space bunch over some monster in Numenera a little while ago? Why is this booklet getting any traction?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Melan on September 13, 2019, 05:44:53 PM
What do you know, here is a thread (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?23244-Gaming-is-actually-pretty-okay&highlight=hospitality) I made on the subject back in 2012 (and it refers back to another made in 2006 (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?3441-Gamer-horror-stories-and-general-disgust-I%92ve-got-nothing)! :D). I think it is worth restating here. For the TL;DR crowd, I bolded the key points.

Quote from: Melan;553470
I have written this post (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=3441) before, but it was a long time ago and sometimes you have to repeat things so people don't forget.

Roleplaying games are a form of entertainment based on a specific set of virtues (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=499424&postcount=69), among them shared creativity, and being venues for face-to-face socialisation and hospitality. They bring people together (in a partly moderated social environment), and at the bottom of it, the whole thing is about getting together in groups and having some kind of fun. It is actually a pretty wholesome activity. What's more, the majority of people engaged in this hobby are pretty okay.

There has been a lot of hate levelled at this hobby and hobbyists; hostile generalisations, slippery slope arguments and false equivalencies dragging down online communities into a vicious circle of hatred and self-loathing (these always go together). But I don't really want to focus on that, because I think it is a counter-productive way of looking at things, and it only serves to make things worse. What I'd like to speak about is gaming as a positive hobby and a positive influence.

Right now, I am directly involved in two game groups; one a circle of friends I have been playing with since 2007 (and with one player, since 1995), and the other where I am the new guy. These are pretty different; one is old school as interpreted by people Who Were Never Actually There and the other is more of a general gaming style with some stylistic and structural influences from TV series; one is rules-light and the other is more rules-intensive; one is sandboxish and very hands-off and the other is episodic with loose but preset storylines. But both are a group made up of good people, including married couples, a freelance journalist, students, a small entrepreneur guy with three kids who is more petite bourgeois than I can ever hope to be, a guy who used to work as a bike courier and now works at another logistic position, and so on and so forth. That's people from different walks of life with different politics, interests and secondary hobbies; tending towards young, lower middle-class and male, but only in the general sense. The common element is that they are people committed to playing games together, being entertaining and contributing to each other's fun; they are people who are enjoyable company, gracious hosts and grateful guests. They are, in rather different ways, good people, individuals I trust and like.

I am not saying there have not been conflicts of various kinds in these groups. They have mostly occurred because different people wanted different things in the same game, and sometimes because of conflicting personalities. It has not always been easy, but we have solved these conflicts by discussing our issues and trying to find good compromises. At one early point of my current campaign, I was pretty bummed by seemingly irreconcilable differences of opinion, but in the end, we seem to have weathered it. Had it been impossible to do, I think I would have had to either ask people to leave the group (hard, because I enjoy playing with all of them, they just didn't work well together in that specific context) or call it quits and come up with something new. That happens; it has happened to previous campaigns that fell apart because our common ground was lost or something like that. I think I still have to watch for this thing re-emerging, and for latent passive-aggressive behaviour (which is the clear signal you are dealing with some kind of trouble), but maybe that's just GM anxiety.

What matters, I think, is that the people in these groups have largely positive attitudes towards gaming. They play with the intent to make other people enjoy gaming as well. They share spotlight. They work with each other and the GM to make the session enjoyable. (Okay, one particular individual is a compulsive in-character thief - whether that's an amusing running joke or a source of conflict is an interesting question, and a question of degrees. We also don't mind a little in-character conflict.) There is sufficient trust in these groups to work from an assumption of goodwill - both the GM and the other players are there for a good experience, and both GM and character decisions come from that assumption. Generosity and good faith are indispensable in gaming, like all group-based activities.

How to have good groups? My social criteria for games are fairly simple: I play games with people I would enjoy to sit down and drink a beer with (or substitute something similar). These are not particularly strict standards. These are not exceedingly loose standards either. If they are impossible to meet, it is better to do something else. Interestingly, the only time I have really been burned in the last few years has been a one-off when I disregarded my own rule - the GM brought along a guy I knew from a gaming forum without consulting me, and I did not want to look like an asshole by turning him away from the door. I knew he was a narcisstic, malicious douchebag, and surprise of surprises, he played a narcisstic, malicious douchebag in the game, and he was narcisstic and malicious about the game afterwards. It was just a breach of hospitality, and an erroneous judgement on my part.

Nevertheless, my experiences with the broader game community I interact with have also been positive. In the recent two years or something, I have been frequenting an old-school mini-convention organised by a friend (and party member). This has exposed me to significantly more people than the usual home games as both player and GM, and again, it has been a pleasant run - there was one game I did not enjoy and one player I found to be kind of a jerk, but the rest was actually very good - people getting together and giving their best. Of course, I do not want to play down the role of organisation and scale: these events were organised to have a point (actual gaming followed by an evening of chat at a friendly pub), they were focused on a specific subset of games (old school and small print games), and they were lightly screened (we knew the majority of the people online, and obvious assholes would have been turned down). They were on a human scale. But with these caveats, once again -- the gaming was enjoyable, and the participants were perfectly normal, likeable people.

It is increasingly hard for me to reconcile some of the online perceptions of the gaming hobby and the actual one I participate in. They seem to be worlds apart. I am finding a lot of the second online, actually; I could give you a long list of people I'd happily invite to play if it was possible, and publications such as Fight On! and Knockspell, along with some blogs seem to embody the things I find enjoyable. And of course, I were more sensible and it wasn't for a morbid curiosity, I would just disengage from the parts that didn't give me that. Well, that is hard. I make mistakes. But I also try to get better.

I suppose this is getting a bit long and it is getting too late here, so the essence is this: gaming is a socially productive and benevolent hobby when approached well. It lets you meet people who are charming, generous and fun. It can be a force for good in your life, and maybe on a social level as well. It is a wholesome thing to dedicate your free time to.

Thank you.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 13, 2019, 06:13:59 PM
Quote from: Melan;1103909
What do you know, here is a thread (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?23244-Gaming-is-actually-pretty-okay&highlight=hospitality) I made on the subject back in 2012 [...]

Very nice post, thoughtful and reasonable. Strange to think people feel tools are required beyond the techniques and attitudes you've highlighted in order to enjoy gaming 'safely', but here we are.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: jhkim on September 13, 2019, 06:15:09 PM
Quote from: Brad;1103870
I don't think these X card advocates have any desire to gain a semblance personal growth and become normal people.

Also, these are games we're talking about, right? When I was a kid, if some other kid was an asshole we just didn't play with them anymore. How hard is that?
Quote from: Melan;1103903
Documents (and arguments) like this one reek of low trust and really uncharitable assumptions about your fellow gamers. If this is how you perceive the people you play with, then you are probably better off not playing with them at all. I sure wouldn't. If there was no trust, this attitude does not contribute to building it; and if there is trust, it is sure to introduce mutual distrust into the mix.
I don't think these accurately reflect the mindset being X-card advocates. From my experience, X-card users actually presume that everyone at the table is well-intentioned and sensitive. It's not a tool against asshole players at all, nor was it intended as such. It's there more to help sensitive players be even more sensitive.

If there is an asshole player, the X-card makes it much easier for them to disrupt play. The X-card rules don't even consider about how to handle that case. Simple example -- A gay NPC appears in an adventure, and a player touches the X-card and explains that they don't want gay characters in the game. That's contrary to the intent of the designers, I'm pretty sure - but there's no advice on how to handle such a case.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 13, 2019, 06:22:31 PM
There are relatively normal assholes, and then there are passive-aggressive assholes that don't want to be called out as being assholes when they are being assholes.  It's the latter type that is the problem here.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: cranebump on September 13, 2019, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1103916
There are relatively normal assholes, and then there are passive-aggressive assholes that don't want to be called out as being assholes when they are being assholes.  It's the latter type that is the problem here.

Agreed, with the addition of people who feel they have a god-given right to be an asshole without paying any consequences. But that seems more like an online thing.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: camazotz on September 13, 2019, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1103600
If we use this product then that nicely solves the problem of the Gnomish Kings with one simple use of the X card.


First good LOL of the day!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: camazotz on September 13, 2019, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: cranebump;1103926
Agreed, with the addition of people who feel they have a god-given right to be an asshole without paying any consequences. But that seems more like an online thing.

Yeah I wonder how often this happens in RL. I bet it happens more in...say...Seattle then it does in my corner of the woods where people still seem to recognize mental affliction and special needs for what it is.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Almost_Useless on September 14, 2019, 12:28:08 AM
I think I'm actually sad this exists.  How many people are stuck in crap game groups or have a circle of friends that are so incapable of basic polite interaction that a need for this evolved?  We've got a whole generation of people that had empathy and tolerance and respect drilled into them daily in school and can't seem to implement any of it.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Bunch on September 14, 2019, 12:38:21 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;1103908
A bit of an aside, but wasn't Monte Cook declared persona non grata by the safe space bunch over some monster in Numenera a little while ago?
Yup.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/numenera-w-t-f-monte.697888/

Nibovian wife.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Aglondir on September 14, 2019, 01:06:30 AM
Quote from: Bunch;1103956
Yup.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/numenera-w-t-f-monte.697888/.


Found an interesting bit in that thread (bolding mine):

Quote
On the other hand, the Ninth World isn't today's culture. The creatures of the Ninth World are supposed to be scary monsters who want to take everything we (and our characters) hold dear and crush it. To me, the Nibovian wives epitomize that. They SHOULD scare and freak the fuck out of characters, for a whole variety of reasons. Numenera isn't the kind of game where we make people feel safe and secure. It's the kind of game where horrible monsters do horrible things to people -- that's why they're monsters.

On the other hand, if you find the creatures boring instead of scary, don't use them in the game. Or don't play it. There are a thousand great games out there. And isn't that supposed to be the point of gaming anyway? To have fun? If you're not having fun, maybe it's time to play a game you like better.

All my best,
Shanna
Lead Editor, Numenera
Co-Owner, Monte Cook Games, LLC

That's from August 5, 2013. I haven't read the new product, but the bolded sections sound very different from the values expressed in 2019.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Gagarth on September 14, 2019, 06:13:05 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1103914
I
If there is an asshole player, the X-card makes it much easier for them to disrupt play. The X-card rules don't even consider about how to handle that case. Simple example -- A gay NPC appears in an adventure, and a player touches the X-card and explains that they don't want gay characters in the game. That's contrary to the intent of the designers, I'm pretty sure - but there's no advice on how to handle such a case.

If a player touches the X-card and explains that they don't want straight characters in the game would that be contrary to the intent of the designers? Similarly if the player in your example had been raped by a gay man  would it be contrary to the designers intent for the player to have to explain his reasons.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GIMME SOME SUGAR on September 14, 2019, 06:53:43 AM
Quote from: Trond;1103616
"thanks for filling out the consent form. Now everyone, calculate your anal circumference"


Lol, that would be funny! Or make the players fill out organ donor forms before playing a horror game.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GIMME SOME SUGAR on September 14, 2019, 07:00:32 AM
What if you intend to play 7th sea or any other pirate game and one of the players turns out to have a past as a Somali pirate?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3836[/ATTACH]
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: remial on September 14, 2019, 07:06:00 AM
Quote from: Shasarak;1103600
If we use this product then that nicely solves the problem of the Gnomish Kings with one simple use of the X card.


what is the problem  with gnomish kings?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Graytung on September 14, 2019, 08:15:04 AM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1103858
Lol, the thread on this product over at TBP is full of gems and insightful commentary as usual. Fucking toxic cishet white males and their stranglehold on power dynamics, attacking and dogpiling on the disenfranchised PoC and marginalized LGBTQ gamers! BLOCKED!!! Session zero never ends, FACT!!!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monte-cooks-consent-in-gaming-hits-shelves-poop-hits-fans.852440/

It's a sad affair. Just look at the behavior of certain woke individuals in that thread. There's at least one non-offensive, intelligent counterpoint among a sea of conformers, and that person is immediately banned. I doubt they even broke any of the rpg.net rules. Power is obviously what some of them want.

I don't think these group-thinking tribalists realize that the path of censorship leads towards a single direction that is a confining space where diversity will not be allowed to flourish. Veto powers will become so intrusive that gaming will get nowhere as laying out the rules is going to become half of the hobby. Rules will only become harsher as this invasive ideology embeds itself deeper into the hobby, because some of them can't help themselves; there will always be someone who won't stop at this product. One step at a time.

Next it will be roll20, Fantasy Grounds and Cons adding consent ideology to their terms of servicerules for attendance and then it will only get worse. You'll be running games for strangers and you'll get flagged for stepping over some line you weren't made aware of without any means of recourse, and it'll be three-strikes and you're out. Everyone is going to be tip-toeing in their games that it's going to be a very limiting experience to want to go out and meet new people in the hobby to play with. And anyone who happens to be on this list of thrice-struck hobbyists won't even be able to attend any con or even have access to sites like roll20 or fantasy grounds.

It's sad, because a common argument I've seen is that you're free to have your own rules in your own gaming groups. People who agree with this sort of thing are free to use it, I personally don't care. However, people who express they would rather opt out are immediately vilified, regardless of the reason for opting out. I'll stay out of your gaming if you stay out of mine.

For now, I obviously won't be using it, or introducing it to any of my gaming groups. If someone brings it up I'll say why do we need it now? If they persist, then hopefully they won't sour as we can continue gaming. Sadly, this sort of thing only will create segregation in the long run.

As a final thought. Sure there are assholes out there, and edgy people who want to shock others, but it happens so infrequently and people like that are immediately removed from a group. Not everyone who wants to dissociate themselves with "Consent for Gaming" is that way, but a lot of people think they are... They must have something to hide, right? To be honest, I just want to run games, have fun, and not feel like I have to be careful because how draining will that be? I'm not trying to deceive anyone, or put people in situations they aren't comfortable in, but I want to run a game that speaks towards realism to some degree. I want my monsters to be horrific, I want my horrible NPCs to be prejudiced. Not because I am such a person, but because I want my players to have a reason to be heroes.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 14, 2019, 09:20:56 AM
Quote from: Graytung;1103981
It's a sad affair. Just look at the behavior of certain woke individuals in that thread. There's at least one non-offensive, intelligent counterpoint among a sea of conformers, and that person is immediately banned. I doubt they even broke any of the rpg.net rules. Power is obviously what some of them want.
Power is exactly what they want, and it's worse than just sad. Let me assist by quoting the banned user:
Quote from: kidkaos2;1103981
It's interesting to me that multiple individuals in this thread have felt the need to point out the race and gender of folks objecting to this consent form. Why exactly does the color of someone's skin or their reproductive organs matter as to their opinion on this topic? What does pointing it out add to the conversation? Should not an opinion stand on its own, regardless of the identity of the person who expresses it? Isn't that part of what equality is all about?
Quote from: Mod;1103981
We've seen this song and dance before, and it's not welcome.

Goodbye.
Hmmmmmmm. Permaban. Strange...
Quote from: Graytung;1103981
I don't think these group-thinking tribalists realize that the path of censorship leads towards a single direction that is a confining space where diversity will not be allowed to flourish. Veto powers will become so intrusive that gaming will get nowhere as laying out the rules is going to become half of the hobby. Rules will only become harsher as this invasive ideology embeds itself deeper into the hobby, because some of them can't help themselves; there will always be someone who won't stop at this product. One step at a time.
Diversity is anathema to their ideology. Cultural and ideological homogenization is their goal despite their cries of inclusivity.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981
Next it will be roll20, Fantasy Grounds and Cons adding consent ideology to their terms of servicerules for attendance and then it will only get worse. You'll be running games for strangers and you'll get flagged for stepping over some line you weren't made aware of without any means of recourse, and it'll be three-strikes and you're out. Everyone is going to be tip-toeing in their games that it's going to be a very limiting experience to want to go out and meet new people in the hobby to play with. And anyone who happens to be on this list of thrice-struck hobbyists won't even be able to attend any con or even have access to sites like roll20 or fantasy grounds.
Eventually yes. Next? No. It will be RPGs themselves. See PF 2e and the X-card sidebar as a nice example of what we have to look forward to.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981
For now, I obviously won't be using it, or introducing it to any of my gaming groups. If someone brings it up I'll say why do we need it now? If they persist, then hopefully they won't sour as we can continue gaming. Sadly, this sort of thing only will create segregation in the long run.
Segregation is their goal. You are a part of the collective or you aren't.
Quote from: Graytung;1103981
As a final thought. Sure there are assholes out there, and edgy people who want to shock others, but it happens so infrequently and people like that are immediately removed from a group. Not everyone who wants to dissociate themselves with "Consent for Gaming" is that way, but a lot of people think they are... They must have something to hide, right? To be honest, I just want to run games, have fun, and not feel like I have to be careful because how draining will that be? I'm not trying to deceive anyone, or put people in situations they aren't comfortable in, but I want to run a game that speaks towards realism to some degree. I want my monsters to be horrific, I want my horrible NPCs to be prejudiced. Not because I am such a person, but because I want my players to have a reason to be heroes.
Entirely realistic, rational and with a good sense of perspective. Sorry but the future is not for you.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 14, 2019, 10:20:12 AM
Typically of the thought police over at TBP someone who pointed out that those who objected to the form were being called out for objecting to it because of their race and gender was banned. Post # 59. Poor Vincent though he is next as he is being entirely reasonable in pointing out that the so called "consent" form includes  sex , gore and homophobia yet no entry for gender identity or LGBT issues. Apparently those who have issues with gay, lgbt and gender identity issues have no say or should I say consent for those topics allowed into the campaign.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: RandyB on September 14, 2019, 10:23:30 AM
Quote from: Aglondir;1103957
Found an interesting bit in that thread (bolding mine):



That's from August 5, 2013. I haven't read the new product, but the bolded sections sound very different from the values expressed in 2019.

"It's Current Day! History is BadWrongThink! Stop shaming people!"

Blergh. I can't keep that up....
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 14, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1103990
Typically of the thought police over at TBP someone who pointed out that those who objected to the form were being called out for objecting to it because of their race and gender was banned. Post # 59. Poor Vincent though he is next as he is being entirely reasonable in pointing out that the so called "consent" form includes  sex , gore and homophobia yet no entry for gender identity or LGBT issues. Apparently those who have issues with gay, lgbt and gender identity issues have no say or should I say consent for those topics allowed into the campaign.

   I'm tempted to call for bets on how long Vincent's ban is going to wind up being. :) But his post does highlight that this product probably (again, haven't read it) does contain certain assumptions about what are and aren't 'acceptable' things to be uncomfortable with. Are there any checkboxes for 'active polytheistic gods' or 'realistic occultism', for example? :)

  EDIT: I've looked at the product now, and it seems to be a mix of 'good, common-sense advice,' 'oversensitivity,' and 'you will be made to care,' all against the backdrop of 21st-century [strike]Apostate Western[/strike] progressive assumptions.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 14, 2019, 10:51:55 AM
Quote from: Graytung;1103981

It's a sad affair. Just look at the behavior of certain woke individuals in that thread. There's at least one non-offensive, intelligent counterpoint among a sea of conformers, and that person is immediately banned. I doubt they even broke any of the rpg.net rules. Power is obviously what some of them want.


The sad part is if you look at the thread at TBP linked in Aglondir post# 91 it was not that bad of place. Now if you don't agree immediately one gets permabanned. The inmates are running the asylum and the guards no only handed them the keys they joined the riot. I expect something like that from the mods. Seeing so many posters who to be part of the cool kids group threw away and and all self-respect to do so is sad. They are so afraid of being permabanned that they rather spout the rhetoric that if you spoke to them privately most don't believe or even agree with most of it.

Of course though out of the two forums somehow we are the worst of course.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981

It's sad, because a common argument I've seen is that you're free to have your own rules in your own gaming groups. People who agree with this sort of thing are free to use it, I personally don't care. However, people who express they would rather opt out are immediately vilified, regardless of the reason for opting out. I'll stay out of your gaming if you stay out of mine.


Having a difference of opinion is becoming a bad thing. Just follow whatever the human SJW herd requires and be happy doing so. I am close to leaving a current gaming group. Tired of traveling to the game as it is at least one hour commute and as soon as I say something they don't like "your an incel, misogynistic, social conservative. The sad part none of the members up until recently gave a crap about social issues. Suddenly it was cool and hip to be an SJW and they jumped on the bandwagon spouting the same poisoned rhetoric. The thing is unlike forum the reality is different. The same gamers think they can and will get the same echo chamber group mind think everywhere they go. More often than not they will be shown the door. Awhile back I saw an Ad on facebook for a 1E D&D game and one of the requirements to join was "if your easily offeneded you won't be a good fit".

Quote from: Graytung;1103981

For now, I obviously won't be using it, or introducing it to any of my gaming groups. If someone brings it up I'll say why do we need it now? If they persist, then hopefully they won't sour as we can continue gaming. Sadly, this sort of thing only will create segregation in the long run.


Neither will I. I treat everyone over the age of 21 as a mature adult. Any issues need to be said and included during session zero. Saying nothing or refusing to say anything means they can either find another table or accept what is in the campaign. I hate the document not for subject. For the fact that it removes any and all personal responsibility for players poor personal decisions. Dislike slavery then why the hell join a campaign where the premise is to rescue npcs out of slavery.  It just screams entitlement. Everyone should have say at the table. Instead it seems "you will accommodate the bothered player and you will bend over backwards and you will do it with a damn smile on your face" . If not you are a terrible group of people.

Quote from: Graytung;1103981

As a final thought. Sure there are assholes out there, and edgy people who want to shock others, but it happens so infrequently and people like that are immediately removed from a group. Not everyone who wants to dissociate themselves with "Consent for Gaming" is that way, but a lot of people think they are... They must have something to hide, right? To be honest, I just want to run games, have fun, and not feel like I have to be careful because how draining will that be? I'm not trying to deceive anyone, or put people in situations they aren't comfortable in, but I want to run a game that speaks towards realism to some degree. I want my monsters to be horrific, I want my horrible NPCs to be prejudiced. Not because I am such a person, but because I want my players to have a reason to be heroes.


Apparently their seems to be huge amount of edgy assholes as it seems every second player over at TBP seeems to have an rpg horror story of some kind. If one does not cater exactly 10000% to such people one is considered racist, homophobic, misogynistic, etc. One cannot win with such people.  If one goes by how entitled most of the posters are over at TBP they think they will simply show up out of the blue to any open game and immediately expect everyone else at the table bend over backwards to accommodate them. The reality is complete opposite.

PWA short for player with unreasonable expectations " I know you told me at session zero this would be a campaign that included Spiders and fighting an avatar of Lolth at the end game.  I don't like Spiders can we change the entire premise of the campaign halfway through the course of it"

DM and everyone else "no you knew coming in what to expect either accept it or find another game"

PWA ( runs off to a gaming forum usually TBP to scream and rant out an rpg horror story)
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 14, 2019, 10:57:18 AM
For all their so called presenting themselves as being tolerant over at TBP they sure as hell give social conservatives a run for their money. Vincent tried to point out that the list is not very objective and that it should include LGBT and Gender issues as topics that require consent from the group and almost immediately the finger pointing came out along with "what are you a bigot?" style posts. So the consent list is acceptable only as long as it has what they want on it. Otherwise "but my reasons and feelz". Anything they firmly agree and believe has to be left out. "Well too bad we don't care what you think".

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1103995
I'm tempted to call for bets on how long Vincent's ban is going to wind up being.

The mods are so corrupt and power hungry they will give him their stupid " Vincent Takeda has accumulated 50000 warning points on September 14, 2019 with a passive aggressive personal attack post added for good measure.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 14, 2019, 11:06:19 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1103999
Apparently their seems to be huge amount of edgy assholes as it seems every second player over at TBP seeems to have an rpg horror story of some kind.
While impossible to verify I largely suspect the majority of these to be works of blatant fiction. Reddit is the poster child for such nonsense fairy tales and exaggerations and reading there, it's generally easy to tell fact from fiction.

Edit: How many internet Brownie points do I get for saying my GM had goblins rape my character, a fellow PC drugged mine, and a player at my table hated gays, women and black people (and then assaulted me physically)?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 14, 2019, 11:33:37 AM
It's not to say DMs and or players have never treated other fellow players poorly. It does happen. I came across a very misogynistic player. The type "womens place is in the kitchen" and other such abhorrent nonsense. The DM warned the player that kind of bullshit would not fly in his campaign the player ignored him. The DM rightfully put him in his place. We had entered the castle of a vampire and came across what looked like to be a mind controlled female npc. The feamle vampire had set her to clean the castle. The dumbass player demanded to know where the head vampire was it was along the lines  of "hey slut tell me where your bitch of a mistress is". The npc refused so he decided to teach her a lesson. He was wearing heavy armor and took of his gauntlet so nothing go in the way of him slapping the npc in her face. As soon as he hit the NPC and the DM said "make a save" I knew he was in trouble. The npc was the vampire and the player hit her no once but three times going from level 7 to 1 in the process.

I think those horror stories are the exception not the norm. I care and respect my fellow players I also expect them to take care of themselves with the appropriate level of maturity. If a player is bothered by spiders we take a time out and see if the DM will change the encounter ( most do ). The idea that the entire sessions comes to a full stop usually does not happen in many home campaigns and probably in most. If it were to happen in mine we may take 15-30 minutes to talk it over and console the player. After that it's game on. It is hard enough to game at my age and I'm not going to cancel an entire session worth of gaming. The player will be asked if they can continue if not they will go home. Hence the horror stories. Even then the idea of someone who suffers anixety from say a Spider playing in a campaign where such enemies will be common seems to be wanting to be a victim. I don't like campaigns that include sexual assualt. I don't force myself to play.

I remember reading on a forum not sure which one where a DM had a player have an almost full emotional breakdown over a npc dog having been killed during a fight. Unless it's a real dog I don't suffer from any of that. Same thing over at TBP where someone in the same thread admits to requiring a full day to recover from a virtual book burning. I love books yet I'm not going to suffer PTSD from fake books being burnt. To me that is not normal behavior.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 14, 2019, 11:52:14 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1104004
I think those horror stories are the exception not the norm.

In short, yeah, this. Shit happens and there are dickheads walking around. Baby, bathwater, etc.

P.S. Many people have traumas of one sort or another, myself included. GROW THE FUCK UP. BE AN ADULT. Do NOT expect others to change your diaper. Engage with others and some element of risk in your chosen activities, or don't. Your choice. Not the obligation of every person around you.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: CarlD. on September 14, 2019, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1103715
OK, I've played in a bunch of games with the X-card and haven't had any problems, but there are a bunch of things that bug me in this. I'm generally skeptical but agnostic about most of psychology. If it helps people live their lives, good for them - but I often don't buy into it for myself. If people want to play with an X-card, that's they're business. If they have fun using it, then more power to them. However, like with everything else in gaming, it's just a particular style -- not the One True Way of role-playing.

Some particular issues I have with this document:

1) This document purports to be general advice about consent in gaming, rather than an optional tool.

2) The text pretty regularly changes between consent, comfort, and safety. They are pretty regularly interchanged, but they are very different things. For example, the first bolded point is "You decide what's safe for you." That's clearly wrong. You decide what you consent to, and you decide what you're comfortable with, but safety is about objective harm. Further, you can consent to things that are uncomfortable for you - or even harmful.


Good observations. My general opinion of "X cards" is that they're a solution to a barely nominal problem, one that can be solved by being grown ups and talking to your players. They might be of use for a convention game or some other event where GMs and they're groups might have never met before. But even there communication, maturity and a little common sense feels like it would work better IMO.

Quote from: Brendan;1103816
Accurate, if they win.


Win what exactly?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 14, 2019, 12:11:19 PM
Quote from: CarlD.;1104010
Win what exactly?

An action-packed trip to Detroit, of course!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: CarlD. on September 14, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104011
An action-packed trip to Detroit, of course!

I was more wondering what fight Brendan was referring too.  X-cards don't appear to be that big a deal. Most of the gamers in my area haven't heard of them.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 14, 2019, 02:04:04 PM
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 14, 2019, 03:06:30 PM
Quote from: CarlD.;1104013
I was more wondering what fight Brendan was referring too.  X-cards don't appear to be that big a deal. Most of the gamers in my area haven't heard of them.
Fair. I live next to Seattle so unfortunately I lack such a luxury, though none of my private groups feature any such tools (aside from myself of course ;) ).
Quote from: sureshot;1104018
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.
Damned 'bigots'! Truly vile creatures! :rolleyes:
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 15, 2019, 12:41:14 AM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104022
Damned 'bigots'! Truly vile creatures! :rolleyes:

Seeing what triggers some of them in the thread makes me wonder if they suffer from un-diagnosed mental illness. One was suffering from anxiety and needed the equivalent of a mental health due to a book being burnt in game Not an actually book being burnt or even in front of them. In game and experienced by their character. Then they get offended by being told to "behave like an adult". I wonder why when fake and imaginary crimes makes them crack like rotten wood in a hurricane.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on September 15, 2019, 12:49:34 AM
In my area, most game shops look like Health & Human Service buildings.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: VincentTakeda on September 15, 2019, 03:00:08 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1104018
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.

I consider it a badge of honor. I'm all about open discourse, but in order to engage in it you have to have some thick skin and a spine. These are difficult issues we're addressing and intolerance from one side is just as bad as intolerance from the other.  I'm happy for Jonathan Van Ness to turn the fabulous dial up to thirteen at my table, but by the same token if someone at my table ticked a box that said that made them uncomfortable, I dont think its unfair for them to say so.  How the table handles that is up to that table in particular. Not up to TBP.

I'm a cis white hetero male. And yet I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to things like the cake shop in colorado where i'm from.  I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to Kim Davis. But theres a line you're crossing when you say the other side cant even honestly talk about how they feel anymore even if you disagree with it.  Its gonna be tough as hell and uncomfortable as hell and painful as hell... But talking with them (folks uncomfortable with open LGBT community) about their uncomfortable feelings is how we get through it. Talking about it is how we solve it. Talking about it is how we heal it.

They can control the content of their forum and they're right, if they're controlling open discourse on their forums then theyr'e correct i'm not a good fit for that. I have a brain and an open heart. And thick skin. And a spine. And most importantly a desire to get the actual issue at hand solved.  I dont post in forums much.  But I bothered to post in these because its big. Its important.

TPB wants them to overcome their bias, but they cant even see their own.  They know how bad a closet feels and yet they shut me into one pretty much immediately.  And they did it the second I used the word closet to put a sharp point on pointing out their hypocrisy so they'd see it for what it was.  I know it stung. It was supposed to. #triggered. I started out soft. I tried to be nice.  They do a worse job of addressing the issue than the book the thread is talking about and they need to understand that.  

Out here in the real world LGBT issues need to stop being seen as squick, but what this BOOK is trying to address is that everyone truly does have something that makes them uncomfortable that they dont want to experience at the table and we're supposed to use this book to address those things.  But according to TBP that issue is off limits even in this context. Even in the context that gore and eyeballs are.  It might offend you that someone thinks 'shaggin the barmaid' is 'squicky at the table' and please fade to black.  Eyeballs and tentacles are ok but gore is not is a 'level' of squick.  LGBT issues in the real world are closer to the sex column in squickiness than they are to the rape column sure... But at the game table, for some people, hate it though you might, there are still people out there that would shag the barmaid but dont want to experience your male barbarian to shag the burly bartender at the table.  Now thats an important conversation to have. Specifically for the LGBT community if they're interested in increasing tolerance out here in the real world this is a great place to start those conversations and this book COULD have been a tool in that engine.  But it conspicuously does not, and saying so seems to set their teeth on edge.  

Don't believe it should be talked about? Dont think it comes up? Check out the 'gamers' trilogy.  Bard that sleeps with every girl he finds? A few people find it squicky.  Wizard plays female caster for a change, a few more people find it squicky.  Wizard female caster starts hitting on female fighter and you guessed it. Female fighter finds it squicky.  But its not ok for us to talk about it?  The gaming table is supposed to be a great place to start those conversations. The book could have had some very valuable instructions for adressing those conversations in a way that would be constructive. But the book didnt seem to have it. And TBP doesnt seem to want it.  Thats conspicuous to me.  And I get banned for suggesting it might ought to be there.

All i'm saying is there are people out there who are uncomfortable and the only way you're going to make them more comfortable is with open dialogue. TBP isnt interested in open dialogue so they're not interested in solving the problem. They are the problem.  Nothing makes "the uncomfortable right" more uncomfortable than not being able to work through these issues honestly in the open and thats a hard road for everyone.  But its the better road.

And I was happy to show up for that tough conversation for as long as it was a real one.

Its actually a good thing that they ban folks from these kind of conversations because if we're being honest, they're not ready to have these kinds of conversations.  They'll get there eventually. Its a journey. The first hump you have to get over on that journey is yourself. Particularly if your goal is for the other side to get over themselves.  You dont let a 7 year old see a pg movie and you dont let a 13 year old see an nc17 movie.  You dont let TBP have an adult conversation because they still need guidance and it shows.  They will get there. Eventually. Just a matter of time.  Right now the biggest problem is they think *they* are parental guidance when really they're the tempestuous hormonal preteen.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 15, 2019, 04:01:17 AM
Quote from: VincentTakeda;1104066
They do a worse job of addressing the issue than the book the thread is talking about and they need to understand that.

I guess my biggest concern about the book/pamphlet is not so much that its own content is necessarily harmful - in some contexts it could even be useful - but that it can be used too easily as a weapon by Mad & Bad people, like the remaining denizens of TBP, to do harm.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Mankcam on September 15, 2019, 06:43:00 AM
Quote from: VincentTakeda;1104066
I consider it a badge of honor. I'm all about open discourse, but in order to engage in it you have to have some thick skin and a spine. These are difficult issues we're addressing and intolerance from one side is just as bad as intolerance from the other.  I'm happy for Jonathan Van Ness to turn the fabulous dial up to thirteen at my table, but by the same token if someone at my table ticked a box that said that made them uncomfortable, I dont think its unfair for them to say so.  How the table handles that is up to that table in particular. Not up to TBP.

I'm a cis white hetero male. And yet I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to things like the cake shop in colorado where i'm from.  I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to Kim Davis. But theres a line you're crossing when you say the other side cant even honestly talk about how they feel anymore even if you disagree with it.  Its gonna be tough as hell and uncomfortable as hell and painful as hell... But talking with them (folks uncomfortable with open LGBT community) about their uncomfortable feelings is how we get through it. Talking about it is how we solve it. Talking about it is how we heal it.

They can control the content of their forum and they're right, if they're controlling open discourse on their forums then theyr'e correct i'm not a good fit for that. I have a brain and an open heart. And thick skin. And a spine. And most importantly a desire to get the actual issue at hand solved.  I dont post in forums much.  But I bothered to post in these because its big. Its important.

TPB wants them to overcome their bias, but they cant even see their own.  They know how bad a closet feels and yet they shut me into one pretty much immediately.  And they did it the second I used the word closet to put a sharp point on pointing out their hypocrisy so they'd see it for what it was.  I know it stung. It was supposed to.  I started out soft. I tried to be nice.  They do a worse job of addressing the issue than the book the thread is talking about and they need to understand that.

All i'm saying is there are people out there who are uncomfortable and the only way you're going to make them more comfortable is with open dialogue. TBP isnt interested in open dialogue so they're not interested in solving the problem. They are the problem.  Nothing makes "the uncomfortable right" more uncomfortable than not being able to work through these issues honestly in the open and thats a hard road for everyone.  But its the better road.

And I was happy to show up for that tough conversation for as long as it was a real one.

Its actually a good thing that they ban folks from these kind of conversations because if we're being honest, they're not ready to have these kinds of conversations.

So you're the guy who got burnt on TBP for this?:

"It's interesting to me that multiple individuals in this thread have felt the need to point out the race and gender of folks objecting to this consent form. Why exactly does the color of someone's skin or their reproductive organs matter as to their opinion on this topic? What does pointing it out add to the conversation? Should not an opinion stand on its own, regardless of the identity of the person who expresses it? Isn't that part of what equality is all about?"

and this was the Mod response:

"We've seen this song and dance before, and it's not welcome. Goodbye."

Wow. Talk about the Mod bringing in a nuke to a knife fight.
And with that, a permaband is slapped on you for being Public Enemy No1.

I got a temp ban on TBP for something similar. I haven't returned except to follow the link in this thread, and I was totally floored that your post received a permaban. That is complete fascist behaviour on the part of the Mods, and one that you would not expect from a forum in a country known for liberty, human rights, and free speech. This reminds me how far TBP has plummented over the years, and I'll keep avoiding it.

At least places like this allow you to speak your mind
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Melan on September 15, 2019, 02:10:51 PM
Yeah, a clever lobbying effort could easily make something like this mandatory at con games - and the bigger cons would fold pretty much immediately. A good moral panic can make it "the law of the land" in short order.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Bradford C. Walker on September 15, 2019, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Melan;1104124
Yeah, a clever lobbying effort could easily make something like this mandatory at con games - and the bigger cons would fold pretty much immediately. A good moral panic can make it "the law of the land" in short order.
Which is exactly what they want, and what will happen without hardcore resistance taking out the trash. Codes of Conduct were the Proof of Concept; this is the refinement.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: cenmarik on September 16, 2019, 01:08:10 AM
Quote from: Aglondir;1103957
Found an interesting bit in that thread...


That's one of the most important remarks on this thread, IMO. Just throw that quote out and say I'm with 2013 Shanna.

Other then that, their nutty mod "BethDragon: nominally Good Person" is on the rampage. To paraphrase Gerry Spence: "If a politician touts their compassionate, they likely have the ethics of a hardened prison guard."
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 16, 2019, 07:41:56 AM
Vincent I was not expecting to be 100% right. Except I was and ended up being 200% right. They did exactly what I posted they would do. Yet we are the worst gaming forum around out of the two.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 16, 2019, 10:37:28 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1104018
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.


LOL c'mon sureshot. This was shooting ducks in the proverbial barrel. It was only a matter of time. What we should have done was take bets to see how long he'd last. Getting banned? INEVITABLE.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 16, 2019, 10:43:20 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1104225
Yet we are the worst gaming forum around out of the two.

I don't care what they think. Neither should you.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 16, 2019, 10:54:33 AM
So... why can't people play X-Cards on threads at TBP? HMMMMM?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 16, 2019, 11:03:56 AM
Quote from: tenbones;1104237
So... why can't people play X-Cards on threads at TBP? HMMMMM?

  What do you think the Reporting function is for? ;)
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 16, 2019, 11:03:58 AM
Quote from: VincentTakeda;1104066
I consider it a badge of honor. I'm all about open discourse, but in order to engage in it you have to have some thick skin and a spine.[...]


You stuck to your guns and you didn't pull any punches or soften your principles or sensibilities for the mod squad, which is worthy of recognition. I doubt any hearts and minds there have been moved (those that weren't already, in any case) but it was good of you to try to crack open the door to open and honest discussion and highlight the hypocrisy involved.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2019, 12:25:49 PM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104239
You stuck to your guns and you didn't pull any punches or soften your principles or sensibilities for the mod squad, which is worthy of recognition. I doubt any hearts and minds there have been moved (those that weren't already, in any case) but it was good of you to try to crack open the door to open and honest discussion and highlight the hypocrisy involved.


BTW I love their new points system.

-50,000 POINTS TO GRYFFINDOR!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 16, 2019, 02:27:19 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1104238
What do you think the Reporting function is for? ;)

But playing the X-Card is performative! Reporting a thread? That misses the whole point! LOL
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 16, 2019, 03:00:35 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1104248
BTW I love their new points system.

-50,000 POINTS TO GRYFFINDOR!

Yeah, wtf is that about and how is it even supposed to work? I sort of doubt there are mods are nickle-and-diming people with single-digit penalties ("ah, yes, poor punctuation... that'll be three points!"?) considering they basically just immediately permaban anyone they feel like for any number of arbitrary reasons.

Maybe it's as simple as the big number making their peepees tingle more each time they hit their big red b& button...
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 16, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104280
Yeah, wtf is that about and how is it even supposed to work? I sort of doubt there are mods are nickle-and-diming people with single-digit penalties ("ah, yes, poor punctuation... that'll be three points!"?) considering they basically just immediately permaban anyone they feel like for any number of arbitrary reasons.

Maybe it's as simple as the big number making their peepees tingle more each time they hit their big red b& button...

  Apparently, it's something built into the board software that they 'have to use' for Permabanning, but not for lesser infractions.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 16, 2019, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1104282
Apparently, it's something built into the board software that they 'have to use' for Permabanning, but not for lesser infractions.

That's... interesting. Odd how many limitations and peculiarities TBP's site has (according to the staff, at least).
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Bren on September 16, 2019, 04:36:48 PM
That reminds me of a quote.

Quote from: Scrooged
Frank: Claire, fire these people!

Claire: Fire them?

          They're volunteers. They're here out of kindness.

Frank: Because no one will PAY them!

Claire: It's Christmas Eve.

Frank: They're like this every day, I guarantee it!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shasarak on September 16, 2019, 05:32:58 PM
Quote from: remial;1103978
what is the problem  with gnomish kings?


Let me explain... No, there is too much. Let me sum up (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?41102-5e-Essentials-Kit-quot-married-Gnome-Kings-quot-co-ruling).
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Melan on September 17, 2019, 01:49:08 AM
This just in: calling a HR-style document a HR-style document (and the issues it might cause) gets you an infraction.

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/2500d392c1bfd502a52f35b4cbde99b0/tumblr_pxynzjuSVV1xcdgeso1_1280.png)

Then again, this is a forum which has just permaed some other guy (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/fheredin-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.852572/) who criticised the sacred thesis of Cultural Appropriation.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2019, 02:37:11 AM
Quote from: Melan;1104366
This just in: calling a HR-style document a HR-style document (and the issues it might cause) gets you an infraction.

That was especially hilarious. I can't wait for the next rpg.net mod to get #metoo'ed.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GIMME SOME SUGAR on September 17, 2019, 04:04:30 AM
I was banned for spamming. Total number of posts ever made on rpg.net=1 with no. 2 causing the ban. That's spamming?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Spinachcat on September 17, 2019, 05:04:18 AM
To quote the esteemed sages of Steel Panther (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfB7vF7nCdA), "fuck those fucking fuck heads."

Most especially, fuck Monte Cook.

Remember kids...you always vote with your wallet. If you support "Consent in Gaming", then keep giving your money to Monte.

But if you don't support freakshow politics being shoved into our hobby, then stop giving this asshole your dollars.

Silent Dissent = Silent Acceptance.


Quote from: S'mon;1103599
The D&D table is for playing D&D, not a mutual support group.


That's way too radical S'mon!! :eek:


Quote from: Trond;1103616
"thanks for filling out the consent form. Now everyone, calculate your anal circumference"


LOL!!!


Quote from: Mankcam;1103674
Honestly, why does this book exist?


Because the RPG community allowed and tolerated freaks invading our hobby.

As some of these freaks had boobies and vajayjays, too many RPGers thought this shitshow was going to resolve differently.

But they were wrong. Freaks of either gender are nothing but trouble to be shunned.


Quote from: Razor 007;1103735
There is no X card at my table.


I should try it out....

When a player taps it, I double down on whatever was triggering them until they break.

Perhaps SJW tears are the key to the Elixir of Immortality!


Quote from: Melan;1104124
Yeah, a clever lobbying effort could easily make something like this mandatory at con games - and the bigger cons would fold pretty much immediately. A good moral panic can make it "the law of the land" in short order.


So be it.

Then "Danger Cons" could rise in direct rebellion to this idiocy.


Quote from: sureshot;1104225
Yet we are the worst gaming forum around out of the two.


We are proudly the wurst!!  The wurst I say!!

Now please pass the mustard.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: MattyHelms on September 17, 2019, 08:02:10 AM
Quote from: Melan;1104366
This just in: calling a HR-style document a HR-style document (and the issues it might cause) gets you an infraction.

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/2500d392c1bfd502a52f35b4cbde99b0/tumblr_pxynzjuSVV1xcdgeso1_1280.png)

Then again, this is a forum which has just permaed some other guy (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/fheredin-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.852572/) who criticised the sacred thesis of Cultural Appropriation.


Hey, that's me! I did email the mod team to point out that calling my opinion (based on 12+ years of HR in a not-for-profit and not a corporation) "inept" is a personal attack, implying that corporations can't have anything to do with people a group attack, and that this heavy-handed ban is the exact lack of compassion and conversation that I feared.

I'm split 50-50 if it'll be radio silence or a permanent ban.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 17, 2019, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: MattyHelms;1104396
Hey, that's me! I did email the mod team to point out that calling my opinion (based on 12+ years of HR in a not-for-profit and not a corporation) "inept" is a personal attack, implying that corporations can't have anything to do with people a group attack, and that this heavy-handed ban is the exact lack of compassion and conversation that I feared.

I'm split 50-50 if it'll be radio silence or a permanent ban.

You'll probably get your permanent ban for 'cross forum drama', since the RPGnet mods seem to spend more time on this forum than Pundit does. :p
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 17, 2019, 08:42:12 AM
Quote from: MattyHelms;1104396
Hey, that's me! I did email the mod team to point out that calling my opinion (based on 12+ years of HR in a not-for-profit and not a corporation) "inept" is a personal attack, implying that corporations can't have anything to do with people a group attack, and that this heavy-handed ban is the exact lack of compassion and conversation that I feared.

   Also, a gaming group may be 'in no way comparable to a corporation,' but a gaming convention or Organized Play commission is a different story.

   At this point, I think they should just draft their Anticreed, publish it, and demand acquiescence as the price of posting on their fora.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Scrivener of Doom on September 17, 2019, 09:02:43 AM
Quote from: MattyHelms;1104396
Hey, that's me! I did email the mod team to point out that calling my opinion (based on 12+ years of HR in a not-for-profit and not a corporation) "inept" is a personal attack, implying that corporations can't have anything to do with people a group attack, and that this heavy-handed ban is the exact lack of compassion and conversation that I feared.

I'm split 50-50 if it'll be radio silence or a permanent ban.

Here's the to a question as to why you were threadbanned. Note that the reply refers to something other than the reason you were threadbanned.

As I post this, I'm aware that it has the potential to be a bit of inter-board drama but I do think it's an important reminder that the people who think that there is any merit or value to the writings of a demented harlot are not the people with whom any sensible (ie, reasonably sound mind, gainfully employed, can grasp that gender was determined in the womb etc...) person should spend any time. It's also a reminder that these sorts of people are likely to gather at conventions and other forms of organised play so those of us with good gaming groups made up of friends should be extraordinarily grateful that this is the case.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Alexander Kalinowski on September 17, 2019, 09:06:06 AM
I have stopped caring about rpg.net, to be honest. I question the mind (and the character) of anyone who witnesses this style of moderation and is okay with it.
Sometimes when I search for information on an RPG product I end up on one of their review pages and that's about it.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 17, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1104405
I have stopped caring about rpg.net, to be honest. I question the mind (and the character) of anyone who witnesses this style of moderation and is okay with it.
Sometimes when I search for information on an RPG product I end up on one of their review pages and that's about it.


To be honest it's not even so much the mind or character of a person. Just the willingness to throw away every single micro-gram of self-respect and objectivity to be part of the cool SJW kids club. They rather bend over backwards and close their eyes rather than be kicked out of the SJW incluvisity club. Which kind of shows they don't have much in terms of a social life. One ex-close friend from high school kept making fun of my behind my back and kept trying to justify it. I walked away and never looked back. Year later we crossed paths again and he blamed me for walking away rather than find fault with his actions. The sad part is besides an echo chamber and validation nothing else is to be gained. If one is going to throw away both of the above at least be paid for it.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2019, 12:41:27 PM
I think MattyHelms hit too close to the mark for their comfort.

Having some consideration for your players is good. If I knew one of my players was arachnophobic, I might accomodate them by not using spiders, or toning down descriptions and using Pogs with "Spider #1" on them, instead of miniatures.
But this checklist stuff strikes me as a way to codify a bunch of rules to make social interaction painless. And social interaction is not painless. It's full of awkward moments and miscommunications. A checklist isn't going to "solve" that.
And TBH, I wouldn't trust anyone in the Social Justice movement to not abuse such a checklist to engage in relational aggression.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: MattyHelms on September 17, 2019, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: Scrivener of Doom;1104403
Here's the to a question as to why you were threadbanned. Note that the reply refers to something other than the reason you were threadbanned.


Thanks for posting that; I never would have seen it otherwise.

New Thread: Everyone look at this great new knife for slicing onions! No more tears - guaranteed!
Me: Wow, I've seen people get cut pretty bad with knives. I hope that doesn't happen here.
Official Response: Saying a knife meant for slicing can cut someone is stupid! Leave the kitchen immediately!
3rd Party: What? He didn't violate any rules.
Official Response: Other people have done bad things. Saying a knife could cut like a knife may lead to bad things, so he deserves punishment. End of discussion.

As someone who firmly believes in compassion, communication, and compromise, I'm walking away from that place.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: MattyHelms on September 17, 2019, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1104443

But this checklist stuff strikes me as a way to codify a bunch of rules to make social interaction painless. And social interaction is not painless. It's full of awkward moments and miscommunications. A checklist isn't going to "solve" that.

Well said!

I LOVE that actual communication happens here!  Now, back to rolling dice and pretending to blow $#!+ up!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Aglondir on September 17, 2019, 07:41:17 PM
Quote from: MattyHelms;1104453
Me: Wow, I've seen people get cut pretty bad with knives. I hope that doesn't happen here.


Concern trolling!

-50,000 points to Gryffindor!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shasarak on September 17, 2019, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: MattyHelms;1104463
Now, back to rolling dice and pretending to blow $#!+ up!


Wait we are pretending to blow $#!+ up?


Oh fuck.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: MattyHelms on September 17, 2019, 08:50:04 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1104535
Wait we are pretending to blow $#!+ up?


Oh fuck.

...and with that, I have found my people.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: VincentTakeda on September 17, 2019, 09:58:27 PM
High fives for Matty
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 17, 2019, 11:19:34 PM
Welcome Matty.

I don't object to the list so much that it encourages one of two things or both.

Lack of personal responsibility for taking the blame for joining the wrong game. If it's going to be fighting minions of Lolth and and given advance notice complaining that their are Spiders when the person is an Arachnophobe. With the DM and the rest of the table refusing to change the focus does not mean either or both are bad terrible people. One either drops out of the game or the table accommodates the player. Unlike TPB and other like minded SJW style forums the second happens more than the first.

Lack of maturity. I can understand not talking about physical or mental abuse as both are very traumatic and most DMs unless given advance notice to the players do not include either or both in a campaign. Getting triggered an offended when a fake imaginary book is burnt because the person is very passionate against that then getting equally offended and triggered by a polite but firm "grow a pair". Simply means to me that person maybe physically be an adult, mentally an entitled child. I'm passionate about books being a bookworm by nature. Getting offended and triggered by imaginary crimes not in a million years. I reserve doing that for actually book burnings.

I also feel like many of them live in an imaginary world. Sometimes depending on what is happening to oneself a person to borrow the phrase from Zombieland "time to nut up or shut up". To be fair if the DM in my above example just acts in a callous manner without regard to the person suffering from a fear of Spiders gets what they deserve if when told the person suffers a phobia they just brush it off. I'm not going to constantly walk on eggshells both as a player and DM because player XYZ easily gets triggered and offended either.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 18, 2019, 02:59:47 PM
"Adulting is hard" as my sarcastic daughter says... apparently this applies to a lot of millennial gamers, and middle-aged seat-sniffing creepers, and their fantasy "edgy" danger-haired masters.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: moonsweeper on September 19, 2019, 08:49:12 AM
Is it bad that I want to hand the list out to players and then use the results to plan the next adventure?  You know, to kinda give it a personal touch.

I agree with Ratman that it is good to have some consideration for your players.  That doesn't require a 'list'. It just needs a simple session zero to cover that.  
These people really do not seem to function at even a basic 5-year-old level of social interaction.

How do they even survive walking outside everyday??

Quote from: Spinachcat;1104382
To quote the esteemed sages of Steel Panther (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfB7vF7nCdA), "fuck those fucking fuck heads."


You used "esteemed sages" as a descriptor for Steel Panther and two thoughts immediately went through my mind...

1.  You are one mentally sick bastard.
2.  Can I recruit you for my home gaming group? :D

Quote from: tenbones;1104647
"Adulting is hard" as my sarcastic daughter says... apparently this applies to a lot of millennial gamers, and middle-aged seat-sniffing creepers, and their fantasy "edgy" danger-haired masters.


tenbones raised sarcastic offspring...
I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.


...and welcome to Matty.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 19, 2019, 10:15:33 AM
"Sarcastic" would be one of the minor descriptors under the Mild category.

Her knife-skills, however, are *excellent*.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 19, 2019, 12:12:46 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1104848
Her knife-skills, however, are *excellent*.
My wife's, on the other hand, are borderline disastrous. The number of finger scars she has is incredible.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 19, 2019, 12:31:45 PM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104875
My wife's, on the other hand, are borderline disastrous. The number of finger scars she has is incredible.

Get her a practice butterfly knife on Amazon! That's how my daughter started. Now she can cut the head off a fly in mid-air.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 19, 2019, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1104879
Get her a practice butterfly knife on Amazon! That's how my daughter started. Now she can cut the head off a fly in mid-air.

Hm, interesting, though I shudder to think of what she might do with her newfound knife skills when she gets angry at me...

Speaking of which, I'm going to run this "Consent in Gaming" product past her and see what she thinks of it, given that she plays RPGs too.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 19, 2019, 01:12:48 PM
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104889
Hm, interesting, though I shudder to think of what she might do with her newfound knife skills when she gets angry at me...

Speaking of which, I'm going to run this "Consent in Gaming" product past her and see what she thinks of it, given that she plays RPGs too.

Then do not give her the knife. LOL

I told my group before we started our last session Saturday, "Before we get started I'm going to hand out some Consent Forms we need to go over..." and everyone started immediately laughing.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: nope on September 19, 2019, 01:26:45 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1104892
Then do not give her the knife. LOL
Probably the wiser choice.:eek:
Quote from: tenbones;1104892
I told my group before we started our last session Saturday, "Before we get started I'm going to hand out some Consent Forms we need to go over..." and everyone started immediately laughing.
LOL this is pretty much the reaction I would expect from any of my groups, too. Though I can think of at least one player I used to have who probably would have drooled over the notion. Her mental stability was about what you would imagine, and she was well known in that circle for her not-infrequent outbursts over extremely minor perceived transgressions.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 19, 2019, 02:19:34 PM
From our favorite rpg message board. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monte-cook-games-consent-in-gaming-hits-shelves-poop-hits-fans.852440/page-32#post-22830367)

Quote
As I was discussing topics such as player comfort with sexual content and violence I mentioned Consent in Gaming. Nobody bat an eye except the new guy, who cringed/grimaced/frowned at this. Thankfully there were no protests or anything like that, but I wonder if his reaction was telling about what to expect from him.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye open.

Lovely. I know if I was playing with a new group, I'd love to have the DM "keeping an eye on me" for wrongthink.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 19, 2019, 02:30:37 PM
Isn't it funny they have both lanes covered? One on hand, in order to GM - you have to cover your bases on what they consent to you magically exposing to them, and on the other hand they get an X-Card to veto anything they didn't already cover in the first mental interrogation.

Yeah... sounds like a lovely way to meet people and play elf-games.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 19, 2019, 02:34:16 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1104903
Lovely. I know if I was playing with a new group, I'd love to have the DM "keeping an eye on me" for wrongthink.

  Well, if you're not on board with in every jot and tittle, aren't you by definition a 'toxic gamer' who ought to be excluded from the hobby?

  (They've been creeping up to that door for a while now. Watch, by this time next year it will be 'anyone who isn't fervently on-board the Anti-Trump Campaign must be shunned!')
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 19, 2019, 03:34:51 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1104892
Then do not give her the knife. LOL

I told my group before we started our last session Saturday, "Before we get started I'm going to hand out some Consent Forms we need to go over..." and everyone started immediately laughing.

I might try that when running a game of Toon.  Just to see what kind of reaction I get.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Spinachcat on September 19, 2019, 08:49:31 PM
I told my crew about this nonsense and they called me out for making it up! Not Monte Cook!! No fucking way! I sent them to the interwebs and after a few minutes of muttered "holy fucks" and "these bitches are insane!", I slapped them until I got my apology. I'm the only one who spends time on game forums anymore and even our most liberal player was shaking his head in disbelief.

My girlfriend asked if I thought I'd have a hobby left in the next decade. I'm sure I will because even our "Warren 2020" clown loves how our game table is "safe space" from the doubleplusgoodthink bullshit of the outer world.

As always, I thank the gods for deplorable scum, toxic men and ladies who love us!!!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 20, 2019, 10:13:14 AM
The hobby will never go away.

I have dice, and pencil. The hobby may implode from it's current scale and go back into the darker recesses of the culture... which I'm fine with. The hobby will live on regardless.

The funny thing about all the "wrongthink/speech" is that people who invariably engage in that will ultimately end up in the same place gaming at that same level. They're putting a crappy ideology in front of the act of the game itself. Forcing your game to conform to such extraneous things makes the game lower-quality by simply restricting engagement.

I have no doubt the quality of those games under those conditions are laughable by my standards. Unnecessarily so. That's the crazy part. Why place unnecessary restrictions on the potential quality of your games by catering to the lowest quality standard of players that are making their personal issues YOUR issues?

Go find quality players. Not players that have other agendas than the game at hand.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 20, 2019, 10:39:32 AM
It's not just about finding quality players. It's a culture that promotes a lack of responsibility and not being held accountable for anything and everything. With some gamers flipping out at the most insignificant things. If an imaginary book being burnt can throw off  a person for a few days and were are not allowed to say anything against it. Pretty soon it will be racist not to want to be near a person with a raging gastro. As they might be offended that I refuse to get infected by their gastro.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 20, 2019, 11:57:08 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1105092
It's not just about finding quality players. It's a culture that promotes a lack of responsibility and not being held accountable for anything and everything. With some gamers flipping out at the most insignificant things. If an imaginary book being burnt can throw off  a person for a few days and were are not allowed to say anything against it. Pretty soon it will be racist not to want to be near a person with a raging gastro. As they might be offended that I refuse to get infected by their gastro.

For sure. You have to cultivate your group. I'm not saying don't play with "those people" (SJW's, ideologues, zealots whatever) - that's on you on a case-by-case basis.

I've taken in people that are fence-sitting SJW's that still really want to play in my games (though they struggle). And I've had SJW's in my games drop due to stress.

The REAL question is how much energy do we want to devote to dealing with it?

Edit: Meaning - I don't wanna leave anyone out that I think, despite their dumb beliefs, could be/is a good player. But you know... depends on your depth of patience.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 20, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1105116
The REAL question is how much energy do we want to devote to dealing with it?

Edit: Meaning - I don't wanna leave anyone out that I think, despite their dumb beliefs, could be/is a good player. But you know... depends on your depth of patience.

Yes, and cost/benefit and priorities.  For example, it's difficult for me to say how much patience I'd have with some nonsense today, given that I've had so many years of more players than I can reasonably accommodate who have no such issues.  If the cut line is 20 people, and I've 30 with no problem, then the problem players need something more than existence and wanting to play in order to claim a spot.  Those few times when I was putting together a group in a new town, I'd put up with some problems for some time, if it appeared to not be chronic.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 20, 2019, 04:24:03 PM
No question that *today* - it's getting harder.

There are things that are completely routine and obvious to me in terms of what tropes inform most of my games that have completely horrified young adult SJW's in my games. So much so it took me aback. And in a few instances I had to cut them from the group.

For example... I *love* spy and crime movies and books. Probably my *favorite* genre (more so than sci-fi and fantasy). Give me some Godfather, Goodfellas, Sopranos, Peaky Blinders, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Narcos, - I'm in Porcine Paradise! I also come from the wrong side of the tracks with a former Police officer father, and the rest of my paternal family being inverterate criminals/Government informants - the whole crazy thing. So when those elements are in my game, you bet your ass it's ruthless.

Well I've had SJW players wanting to waltz into my games with "I'm a halfling thief working with my family guild of Thieves!"  and I happen to have such a group of Halfling thieves in my campaign so I plug him in... And he thinks he's going to be fucking Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor and he has zero concept about how that works in Organized Crime. He ends up getting more people killed. He plays what he thinks are practical jokes on straight-up stone-cold killers who then falsely start offing people over his antics... and wonders why when it comes back to him - he's got half-dozen murders to answer for and has kicked off a turf-war.

Then the stress mounts and he's sitting with me for hours bemoaning his "situation" as if I'm the one screwing him over. All the while the other players are trying to warn him "this ain't Candyland the RPG".

Not to mention the invariable accusations of calling players racists because their PC's might be bigots, etc. (the whole Dwarf vs. Elf thing) ugh. It's real.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Sunsword on September 21, 2019, 04:47:03 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1105016
I told my crew about this nonsense and they called me out for making it up! Not Monte Cook!! No fucking way! I sent them to the interwebs and after a few minutes of muttered "holy fucks" and "these bitches are insane!", I slapped them until I got my apology. I'm the only one who spends time on game forums anymore and even our most liberal player was shaking his head in disbelief.

My girlfriend asked if I thought I'd have a hobby left in the next decade. I'm sure I will because even our "Warren 2020" clown loves how our game table is "safe space" from the doubleplusgoodthink bullshit of the outer world.

As always, I thank the gods for deplorable scum, toxic men and ladies who love us!!!

Had the same response and we all got a good laugh out of it and the Deadlands announcement. I love my group.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Sunsword on September 21, 2019, 04:50:50 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1105185
No question that *today* - it's getting harder.

There are things that are completely routine and obvious to me in terms of what tropes inform most of my games that have completely horrified young adult SJW's in my games. So much so it took me aback. And in a few instances I had to cut them from the group.

For example... I *love* spy and crime movies and books. Probably my *favorite* genre (more so than sci-fi and fantasy). Give me some Godfather, Goodfellas, Sopranos, Peaky Blinders, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Narcos, - I'm in Porcine Paradise! I also come from the wrong side of the tracks with a former Police officer father, and the rest of my paternal family being inverterate criminals/Government informants - the whole crazy thing. So when those elements are in my game, you bet your ass it's ruthless.

Well I've had SJW players wanting to waltz into my games with "I'm a halfling thief working with my family guild of Thieves!"  and I happen to have such a group of Halfling thieves in my campaign so I plug him in... And he thinks he's going to be fucking Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor and he has zero concept about how that works in Organized Crime. He ends up getting more people killed. He plays what he thinks are practical jokes on straight-up stone-cold killers who then falsely start offing people over his antics... and wonders why when it comes back to him - he's got half-dozen murders to answer for and has kicked off a turf-war.

Then the stress mounts and he's sitting with me for hours bemoaning his "situation" as if I'm the one screwing him over. All the while the other players are trying to warn him "this ain't Candyland the RPG".

Not to mention the invariable accusations of calling players racists because their PC's might be bigots, etc. (the whole Dwarf vs. Elf thing) ugh. It's real.

It's crazy isn't it? I have tables for play after hours at my store. I had a newer player come to me because his DM killed his character and wanted me to tell the DM he couldn't do that without his consent.

I was like, "What?".

I've know the DM for years so I just explained that the group wasn't for him an "No, your DM doesn't need your consent to kill your PC and that if that was what you wanted it is probably best if you look for a game elsewhere."
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Opaopajr on September 21, 2019, 09:41:54 PM
Quote from: Sunsword;1105322
It's crazy isn't it? I have tables for play after hours at my store. I had a newer player come to me because his DM killed his character and wanted me to tell the DM he couldn't do that without his consent. [...]

Aww ha ha ha aww! :o :p That's positively adorable. How old was the child? Were they of vaping age? :D
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Spinachcat on September 22, 2019, 07:09:19 PM
You should always ask for consent before killing players.

It's the least you can do.:D
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 23, 2019, 02:51:28 AM
Quote from: Sunsword;1105322
It's crazy isn't it? I have tables for play after hours at my store. I had a newer player come to me because his DM killed his character and wanted me to tell the DM he couldn't do that without his consent.

I was like, "What?".

I've know the DM for years so I just explained that the group wasn't for him an "No, your DM doesn't need your consent to kill your PC and that if that was what you wanted it is probably best if you look for a game elsewhere."

Okay! now THAT is special!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on September 23, 2019, 12:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gagarth;1103594
I can't wait to unleash this (https://www.montecookgames.com/consent-in-gaming/) on my players.  


Is a module for Fantasy Grounds out yet?
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Gagarth on September 24, 2019, 03:54:53 AM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1105598
Is a module for Fantasy Grounds out yet?

No because too many Intersectional Jihadist snowflakes were triggered by the thoughts of having to download and install software.

Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Aglondir on September 27, 2019, 12:27:09 AM
Quote from: Gagarth;1105706
No because too many Intersectional Jihadist snowflakes were triggered by the thoughts of having to download and install software.

Why does the guy yell "Please do not use gendered language" at the Asian woman at 2:17?

Edit: Maybe he is yelling a the guy who says "Guys, first of all..." at 1:54? Which is rather rude, since the guy just said he was prone to sensory overload.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Abraxus on September 27, 2019, 07:13:58 AM
Can someone explain to me what the weird up in the arm handwaving was about? Serious question because it looked like they were either a bunch of people who had suffered a physical injury and trying to do a crippled version of the wave at sports events.

Personal edit: Wow so clapping is offensive and can trigger someone so lets wave our hands in the air. like a bunch of idiots.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: tenbones on September 27, 2019, 08:50:15 AM
That's where narcisssm+self-loathing will take an unreasoned mind, unfortunately.

Everything becomes a means to force others to acknowledge their personal issues as part of their distinct identity. Anything less means you're filled with irrational hatred.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Aglondir on September 27, 2019, 10:55:47 AM
Quote from: sureshot;1106209
Can someone explain to me what the weird up in the arm handwaving was about? Serious question because it looked like they were either a bunch of people who had suffered a physical injury and trying to do a crippled version of the wave at sports events.

Personal edit: Wow so clapping is offensive and can trigger someone so lets wave our hands in the air. like a bunch of idiots.



You got it.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/universitys-move-replace-clapping-jazz-hands-sparks-controversy/story?id=58254353
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Opaopajr on September 27, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
I always wondered how fun it would be LARPing 'Paranoia'. :D We're almost there guys!

("Please stop using gendered language!" :mad: "But what happens when I translate into Spanish?" :confused: "Stop. I have stated my boundaries!" :mad: "But your boundaries are imperialistic oppression of my cultural existence!" :mad: /hand-waving intensifies)

With entertainments like these I think we might actually live in the best of possible worlds! :cool: :p
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 28, 2019, 10:12:25 PM
Next push will be for sensitivity readers/editors to approve your campaign https://twitter.com/_Vs_The_World/status/1177877390246187013 (https://twitter.com/_Vs_The_World/status/1177877390246187013)
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Spinachcat on September 28, 2019, 11:32:41 PM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3874[/ATTACH]

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1106491
Next push will be for sensitivity readers/editors to approve your campaign https://twitter.com/_Vs_The_World/status/1177877390246187013 (https://twitter.com/_Vs_The_World/status/1177877390246187013)


My fav response to that post!

So... dnd went from
"Oh that game that nerds play" to
"Oh, that game everyone wants to play"
To now being "Oh, that game only super annoying people and normies play."


Ooh, here's another good one!

SJWs dream of a world where we pay them to tell us how problematic we are.


In honor of that post, I absolutely *MUST* post Jonathan Young singing Dinosaur Laser Fight! (NSFW - fuck yeah!)

I promise all your neighbors will love this song! Mine do! They keep yelling in excitement whenever I crank it!

Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on September 29, 2019, 04:43:08 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1106499
SJWs dream of a world where we pay them to tell us how problematic we are.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/sensitivity-writers-aka-avoiding-cultural-appropriate-in-writing.667488/

In particular https://www.enworld.org/threads/sensitivity-writers-aka-avoiding-cultural-appropriate-in-writing.667488/post-7814310

If you are going to make money, you should pay marginalized people to help make the product. Never ever demand of someone that they work for free, especially when you're a white dude and they aren't.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Spinachcat on September 29, 2019, 05:19:13 AM
1) Fuck ENworld.

2) I would never hire anyone who identifies as "marginalized". Victims are worthless hires. For my money or my client's money, I want exceptional, or at least competent and confident. When I look at art for sale on DriveThru or Deviant Art, the genetics of the artist are meaningless, its all about their work. Absolutely nothing else.

3) Fuck ENworld.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Gagarth on September 29, 2019, 09:39:19 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1106491
Next push will be for sensitivity readers/editors to approve your campaign https://twitter.com/_Vs_The_World/status/1177877390246187013 (https://twitter.com/_Vs_The_World/status/1177877390246187013)


Already here https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/a181d0/im_a_rpg_developer_and_cultural_consultant_ama/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/a181d0/im_a_rpg_developer_and_cultural_consultant_ama/)
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 29, 2019, 12:40:27 PM
Quote from: Gagarth;1106603
Already here https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/a181d0/im_a_rpg_developer_and_cultural_consultant_ama/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/a181d0/im_a_rpg_developer_and_cultural_consultant_ama/)

Fuck me sideways!
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Bradford C. Walker on September 29, 2019, 04:24:38 PM
SJWs want to put themselves into a position where they alone authorize, and no one gets to gainsay their authority. Conformity means authorization, and authorization means access to their institutional power; you get their figures to shill your stuff, appear in your marketing, permit you to sell in their events like cons and places like stores. Non-conformity means unauthorization, and that means getting shut out of everything they control, hence why "deplatforming" is meant to be a dire threat to you and why your building alternatives is a dire threat to them.

SJWs in tabletop gaming want to control the conventions, stores, and marketing. They will work with their fellow travelers in payment processing and banking when that alone isn't sufficient to stop you. By holding these chokepoints, they want to squeeze out Wrongthinkers like us over time; it's Fabian in its mechanics, with added gaslighting to ensure that the authorization scheme achieves its desired effect.
Title: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Gagarth on September 30, 2019, 07:30:47 AM
30 years from now SJWs confront rpg Con attendees who refuse to bend to their agenda.

Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Apparition on February 13, 2021, 01:18:34 AM
A good friend of mine for twelve years is also the regular GM for our group of friends.  We've all been friends for a couple of years, some of us for more than a decade.  We've been playing a weekly campaign together for the past fourteen months, and it's been going well.  Earlier this week, he gave us all a PDF and asked for us to download it, fill it out, and send it back to him.  I downloaded it... and it's this Consent in Gaming form by Monte Cook Games.  WTF?  I've been playing tabletop games for thirty years now, and I've never heard of something this absurd.

I'm not sure what to do now, because we're all being expected to fill this out.  I'm tempted to mark everything in red.  I just legitimately cannot comprehend how tabletop gaming got to this point.
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: TJS on February 13, 2021, 01:39:48 AM
A good friend of mine for twelve years is also the regular GM for our group of friends.  We've all been friends for a couple of years, some of us for more than a decade.  We've been playing a weekly campaign together for the past fourteen months, and it's been going well.  Earlier this week, he gave us all a PDF and asked for us to download it, fill it out, and send it back to him.  I downloaded it... and it's this Consent in Gaming form by Monte Cook Games.  WTF?  I've been playing tabletop games for thirty years now, and I've never heard of something this absurd.

I'm not sure what to do now, because we're all being expected to fill this out.  I'm tempted to mark everything in red.  I just legitimately cannot comprehend how tabletop gaming got to this point.
Just send an email and ask if he really feels it's necessary.  Just point out that this sort of things seems more intended for people who don't really know each other.

Maybe suggest to him that if he does have plans to introduce content he feels will make people uncomfortable then it's probably better to discuss it in person since you've been gaming together for a long time (if it's just virtue signaling that may be enough to get him to drop the whole thing).
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: S'mon on February 13, 2021, 03:20:25 AM
A good friend of mine for twelve years is also the regular GM for our group of friends.  We've all been friends for a couple of years, some of us for more than a decade.  We've been playing a weekly campaign together for the past fourteen months, and it's been going well.  Earlier this week, he gave us all a PDF and asked for us to download it, fill it out, and send it back to him.  I downloaded it... and it's this Consent in Gaming form by Monte Cook Games.  WTF?  I've been playing tabletop games for thirty years now, and I've never heard of something this absurd.

I'm not sure what to do now, because we're all being expected to fill this out.  I'm tempted to mark everything in red.  I just legitimately cannot comprehend how tabletop gaming got to this point.

Tell him no.
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: robh on February 13, 2021, 05:19:06 AM
Tell him no.

This absolutely.  Wanting you to fill out something like that is not something a "friend" would do within his own circle.
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Omega on February 13, 2021, 08:20:15 AM
Ask him why?

There is probably a reason. Anything ranging from someone else in the group suggested it and isnt quite aware the implications. He was deceived by SJW marketing into thinking its needed. To worst case scenario that hes been converted to the cult and now believes it is necessary.

Once you have a handle on the why you can then proceed as you see fit which could be as simple as explaining the reality of this problem, to walking away and never looking back.
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Omega on February 13, 2021, 08:24:46 AM
Tell him no.

This absolutely.  Wanting you to fill out something like that is not something a "friend" would do within his own circle.

A friend might if they were unaware of the implications of the thing. No different from one of my DMs years ago introducing the critical hit tables from I believe the Arms Master game to a 2e D&D campaign. By the end of the first session most of the group was missing or disabled at multiple parts.

Seemed like a good idea at the time!  8)
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: BronzeDragon on February 13, 2021, 11:32:42 AM
Casting
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 13, 2021, 03:03:46 PM
Quote
A good friend of mine for twelve years is also the regular GM for our group of friends.  We've all been friends for a couple of years, some of us for more than a decade.  We've been playing a weekly campaign together for the past fourteen months, and it's been going well.  Earlier this week, he gave us all a PDF and asked for us to download it, fill it out, and send it back to him.  I downloaded it... and it's this Consent in Gaming form by Monte Cook Games.  WTF?  I've been playing tabletop games for thirty years now, and I've never heard of something this absurd.

I'm not sure what to do now, because we're all being expected to fill this out.  I'm tempted to mark everything in red.  I just legitimately cannot comprehend how tabletop gaming got to this point.

As TJS said - write your GM, that it seems useless for a long-termed group knowing each other, unless you take some newbies then sure to check them out, but otherwise... you're not strangers on convention.

Quote
This absolutely.  Wanting you to fill out something like that is not something a "friend" would do within his own circle.

I could - but if we were just starting gaming as circle - because well that's new situation for group - but after years?

Quote
A friend might if they were unaware of the implications of the thing. No different from one of my DMs years ago introducing the critical hit tables from I believe the Arms Master game to a 2e D&D campaign. By the end of the first session most of the group was missing or disabled at multiple parts.

Seemed like a good idea at the time!  8)

Well that's definitely sounds like D&D finally being game I'd like to play :3
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on February 14, 2021, 12:51:39 AM
A good friend of mine for twelve years is also the regular GM for our group of friends.  We've all been friends for a couple of years, some of us for more than a decade.  We've been playing a weekly campaign together for the past fourteen months, and it's been going well.  Earlier this week, he gave us all a PDF and asked for us to download it, fill it out, and send it back to him.  I downloaded it... and it's this Consent in Gaming form by Monte Cook Games.  WTF?  I've been playing tabletop games for thirty years now, and I've never heard of something this absurd.

I'm not sure what to do now, because we're all being expected to fill this out.  I'm tempted to mark everything in red.  I just legitimately cannot comprehend how tabletop gaming got to this point.

They're no longer friends with you. In RL or in VL.
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: TJS on February 14, 2021, 01:22:09 AM
They're no longer friends with you. In RL or in VL.
That's Right!  Cancel your friends!
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 14, 2021, 03:54:05 AM
Quote
They're no longer friends with you. In RL or in VL.

(https://miro.medium.com/max/595/1*0UcPEJrnK35bFMVrC4Pm9A.png)
Title: Re: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
Post by: Brigman on February 14, 2021, 01:36:38 PM
I think if a good buddy of mine hauled that out in a regular gaming group that had been going on for years, I'd take him aside and say, "Dude*, what the fuck?  Did something happen?  Why would you feel the need for this after all these years?  You know us all pretty well, like how Danny hates frogs and you deliberately jumped his PC with Bullywugs for the Lolz... why stop now?"

And then I'd want to hear what motivated him.  Because until I knew that, how could I make a snap judgement on what he was doing?

I, personally, am an old-school gamer with the grey hair to prove it.  I've run for teenagers and not felt the need for this kind of thing... when I ran, I read their body language and reactions and adapted from there. 

*In California, Dude is a gender-neutral term. It can even apply to inanimate objects.  Just ask anyone. ;)