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Author Topic: A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system  (Read 18442 times)

CarlD.

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A new exciting product has been release for the Cypher system
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2019, 12:06:42 PM »
Quote from: jhkim;1103715
OK, I've played in a bunch of games with the X-card and haven't had any problems, but there are a bunch of things that bug me in this. I'm generally skeptical but agnostic about most of psychology. If it helps people live their lives, good for them - but I often don't buy into it for myself. If people want to play with an X-card, that's they're business. If they have fun using it, then more power to them. However, like with everything else in gaming, it's just a particular style -- not the One True Way of role-playing.

Some particular issues I have with this document:

1) This document purports to be general advice about consent in gaming, rather than an optional tool.

2) The text pretty regularly changes between consent, comfort, and safety. They are pretty regularly interchanged, but they are very different things. For example, the first bolded point is "You decide what's safe for you." That's clearly wrong. You decide what you consent to, and you decide what you're comfortable with, but safety is about objective harm. Further, you can consent to things that are uncomfortable for you - or even harmful.


Good observations. My general opinion of "X cards" is that they're a solution to a barely nominal problem, one that can be solved by being grown ups and talking to your players. They might be of use for a convention game or some other event where GMs and they're groups might have never met before. But even there communication, maturity and a little common sense feels like it would work better IMO.

Quote from: Brendan;1103816
Accurate, if they win.


Win what exactly?
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

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nope

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« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2019, 12:11:19 PM »
Quote from: CarlD.;1104010
Win what exactly?

An action-packed trip to Detroit, of course!

CarlD.

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« Reply #107 on: September 14, 2019, 12:58:25 PM »
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104011
An action-packed trip to Detroit, of course!

I was more wondering what fight Brendan was referring too.  X-cards don't appear to be that big a deal. Most of the gamers in my area haven't heard of them.
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

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Abraxus

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« Reply #108 on: September 14, 2019, 02:04:04 PM »
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.

nope

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« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2019, 03:06:30 PM »
Quote from: CarlD.;1104013
I was more wondering what fight Brendan was referring too.  X-cards don't appear to be that big a deal. Most of the gamers in my area haven't heard of them.
Fair. I live next to Seattle so unfortunately I lack such a luxury, though none of my private groups feature any such tools (aside from myself of course ;) ).
Quote from: sureshot;1104018
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.
Damned 'bigots'! Truly vile creatures! :rolleyes:

Abraxus

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« Reply #110 on: September 15, 2019, 12:41:14 AM »
Quote from: Antiquation!;1104022
Damned 'bigots'! Truly vile creatures! :rolleyes:

Seeing what triggers some of them in the thread makes me wonder if they suffer from un-diagnosed mental illness. One was suffering from anxiety and needed the equivalent of a mental health due to a book being burnt in game Not an actually book being burnt or even in front of them. In game and experienced by their character. Then they get offended by being told to "behave like an adult". I wonder why when fake and imaginary crimes makes them crack like rotten wood in a hurricane.

Shawn Driscoll

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« Reply #111 on: September 15, 2019, 12:49:34 AM »
In my area, most game shops look like Health & Human Service buildings.

VincentTakeda

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« Reply #112 on: September 15, 2019, 03:00:08 AM »
Quote from: sureshot;1104018
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.

I consider it a badge of honor. I'm all about open discourse, but in order to engage in it you have to have some thick skin and a spine. These are difficult issues we're addressing and intolerance from one side is just as bad as intolerance from the other.  I'm happy for Jonathan Van Ness to turn the fabulous dial up to thirteen at my table, but by the same token if someone at my table ticked a box that said that made them uncomfortable, I dont think its unfair for them to say so.  How the table handles that is up to that table in particular. Not up to TBP.

I'm a cis white hetero male. And yet I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to things like the cake shop in colorado where i'm from.  I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to Kim Davis. But theres a line you're crossing when you say the other side cant even honestly talk about how they feel anymore even if you disagree with it.  Its gonna be tough as hell and uncomfortable as hell and painful as hell... But talking with them (folks uncomfortable with open LGBT community) about their uncomfortable feelings is how we get through it. Talking about it is how we solve it. Talking about it is how we heal it.

They can control the content of their forum and they're right, if they're controlling open discourse on their forums then theyr'e correct i'm not a good fit for that. I have a brain and an open heart. And thick skin. And a spine. And most importantly a desire to get the actual issue at hand solved.  I dont post in forums much.  But I bothered to post in these because its big. Its important.

TPB wants them to overcome their bias, but they cant even see their own.  They know how bad a closet feels and yet they shut me into one pretty much immediately.  And they did it the second I used the word closet to put a sharp point on pointing out their hypocrisy so they'd see it for what it was.  I know it stung. It was supposed to. #triggered. I started out soft. I tried to be nice.  They do a worse job of addressing the issue than the book the thread is talking about and they need to understand that.  

Out here in the real world LGBT issues need to stop being seen as squick, but what this BOOK is trying to address is that everyone truly does have something that makes them uncomfortable that they dont want to experience at the table and we're supposed to use this book to address those things.  But according to TBP that issue is off limits even in this context. Even in the context that gore and eyeballs are.  It might offend you that someone thinks 'shaggin the barmaid' is 'squicky at the table' and please fade to black.  Eyeballs and tentacles are ok but gore is not is a 'level' of squick.  LGBT issues in the real world are closer to the sex column in squickiness than they are to the rape column sure... But at the game table, for some people, hate it though you might, there are still people out there that would shag the barmaid but dont want to experience your male barbarian to shag the burly bartender at the table.  Now thats an important conversation to have. Specifically for the LGBT community if they're interested in increasing tolerance out here in the real world this is a great place to start those conversations and this book COULD have been a tool in that engine.  But it conspicuously does not, and saying so seems to set their teeth on edge.  

Don't believe it should be talked about? Dont think it comes up? Check out the 'gamers' trilogy.  Bard that sleeps with every girl he finds? A few people find it squicky.  Wizard plays female caster for a change, a few more people find it squicky.  Wizard female caster starts hitting on female fighter and you guessed it. Female fighter finds it squicky.  But its not ok for us to talk about it?  The gaming table is supposed to be a great place to start those conversations. The book could have had some very valuable instructions for adressing those conversations in a way that would be constructive. But the book didnt seem to have it. And TBP doesnt seem to want it.  Thats conspicuous to me.  And I get banned for suggesting it might ought to be there.

All i'm saying is there are people out there who are uncomfortable and the only way you're going to make them more comfortable is with open dialogue. TBP isnt interested in open dialogue so they're not interested in solving the problem. They are the problem.  Nothing makes "the uncomfortable right" more uncomfortable than not being able to work through these issues honestly in the open and thats a hard road for everyone.  But its the better road.

And I was happy to show up for that tough conversation for as long as it was a real one.

Its actually a good thing that they ban folks from these kind of conversations because if we're being honest, they're not ready to have these kinds of conversations.  They'll get there eventually. Its a journey. The first hump you have to get over on that journey is yourself. Particularly if your goal is for the other side to get over themselves.  You dont let a 7 year old see a pg movie and you dont let a 13 year old see an nc17 movie.  You dont let TBP have an adult conversation because they still need guidance and it shows.  They will get there. Eventually. Just a matter of time.  Right now the biggest problem is they think *they* are parental guidance when really they're the tempestuous hormonal preteen.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 11:59:47 AM by VincentTakeda »

S'mon

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« Reply #113 on: September 15, 2019, 04:01:17 AM »
Quote from: VincentTakeda;1104066
They do a worse job of addressing the issue than the book the thread is talking about and they need to understand that.

I guess my biggest concern about the book/pamphlet is not so much that its own content is necessarily harmful - in some contexts it could even be useful - but that it can be used too easily as a weapon by Mad & Bad people, like the remaining denizens of TBP, to do harm.

Mankcam

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« Reply #114 on: September 15, 2019, 06:43:00 AM »
Quote from: VincentTakeda;1104066
I consider it a badge of honor. I'm all about open discourse, but in order to engage in it you have to have some thick skin and a spine. These are difficult issues we're addressing and intolerance from one side is just as bad as intolerance from the other.  I'm happy for Jonathan Van Ness to turn the fabulous dial up to thirteen at my table, but by the same token if someone at my table ticked a box that said that made them uncomfortable, I dont think its unfair for them to say so.  How the table handles that is up to that table in particular. Not up to TBP.

I'm a cis white hetero male. And yet I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to things like the cake shop in colorado where i'm from.  I come down on the LGBT side when it comes to Kim Davis. But theres a line you're crossing when you say the other side cant even honestly talk about how they feel anymore even if you disagree with it.  Its gonna be tough as hell and uncomfortable as hell and painful as hell... But talking with them (folks uncomfortable with open LGBT community) about their uncomfortable feelings is how we get through it. Talking about it is how we solve it. Talking about it is how we heal it.

They can control the content of their forum and they're right, if they're controlling open discourse on their forums then theyr'e correct i'm not a good fit for that. I have a brain and an open heart. And thick skin. And a spine. And most importantly a desire to get the actual issue at hand solved.  I dont post in forums much.  But I bothered to post in these because its big. Its important.

TPB wants them to overcome their bias, but they cant even see their own.  They know how bad a closet feels and yet they shut me into one pretty much immediately.  And they did it the second I used the word closet to put a sharp point on pointing out their hypocrisy so they'd see it for what it was.  I know it stung. It was supposed to.  I started out soft. I tried to be nice.  They do a worse job of addressing the issue than the book the thread is talking about and they need to understand that.

All i'm saying is there are people out there who are uncomfortable and the only way you're going to make them more comfortable is with open dialogue. TBP isnt interested in open dialogue so they're not interested in solving the problem. They are the problem.  Nothing makes "the uncomfortable right" more uncomfortable than not being able to work through these issues honestly in the open and thats a hard road for everyone.  But its the better road.

And I was happy to show up for that tough conversation for as long as it was a real one.

Its actually a good thing that they ban folks from these kind of conversations because if we're being honest, they're not ready to have these kinds of conversations.

So you're the guy who got burnt on TBP for this?:

"It's interesting to me that multiple individuals in this thread have felt the need to point out the race and gender of folks objecting to this consent form. Why exactly does the color of someone's skin or their reproductive organs matter as to their opinion on this topic? What does pointing it out add to the conversation? Should not an opinion stand on its own, regardless of the identity of the person who expresses it? Isn't that part of what equality is all about?"

and this was the Mod response:

"We've seen this song and dance before, and it's not welcome. Goodbye."

Wow. Talk about the Mod bringing in a nuke to a knife fight.
And with that, a permaband is slapped on you for being Public Enemy No1.

I got a temp ban on TBP for something similar. I haven't returned except to follow the link in this thread, and I was totally floored that your post received a permaban. That is complete fascist behaviour on the part of the Mods, and one that you would not expect from a forum in a country known for liberty, human rights, and free speech. This reminds me how far TBP has plummented over the years, and I'll keep avoiding it.

At least places like this allow you to speak your mind
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 06:51:02 AM by Mankcam »

Melan

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« Reply #115 on: September 15, 2019, 02:10:51 PM »
Yeah, a clever lobbying effort could easily make something like this mandatory at con games - and the bigger cons would fold pretty much immediately. A good moral panic can make it "the law of the land" in short order.
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Bradford C. Walker

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« Reply #116 on: September 15, 2019, 05:01:23 PM »
Quote from: Melan;1104124
Yeah, a clever lobbying effort could easily make something like this mandatory at con games - and the bigger cons would fold pretty much immediately. A good moral panic can make it "the law of the land" in short order.
Which is exactly what they want, and what will happen without hardcore resistance taking out the trash. Codes of Conduct were the Proof of Concept; this is the refinement.

cenmarik

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« Reply #117 on: September 16, 2019, 01:08:10 AM »
Quote from: Aglondir;1103957
Found an interesting bit in that thread...


That's one of the most important remarks on this thread, IMO. Just throw that quote out and say I'm with 2013 Shanna.

Other then that, their nutty mod "BethDragon: nominally Good Person" is on the rampage. To paraphrase Gerry Spence: "If a politician touts their compassionate, they likely have the ethics of a hardened prison guard."

Abraxus

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« Reply #118 on: September 16, 2019, 07:41:56 AM »
Vincent I was not expecting to be 100% right. Except I was and ended up being 200% right. They did exactly what I posted they would do. Yet we are the worst gaming forum around out of the two.

tenbones

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« Reply #119 on: September 16, 2019, 10:37:28 AM »
Quote from: sureshot;1104018
Called it they permabanned Vincent for not bending over backwards and embracing their toxic, enablist, SJW, circle jerk group echo chamber hive.


LOL c'mon sureshot. This was shooting ducks in the proverbial barrel. It was only a matter of time. What we should have done was take bets to see how long he'd last. Getting banned? INEVITABLE.