So I'm not the biggest fan of the WH40K universe as it stands, but really, isn't the notion recently presented by certain people on certain other rpg forums about trying to make an "inclusive" (of gender, and apparently species) 40K universe really just a catastrophically stupid case of missing the point??

Yes. The 40k premiss is a fascist regime says 'we are your only defence in a deadly universe' - and they're right.

More inclusive of gender you could do without breaking the game, or really deviating that much from published canon. You can emphasise the Sisters of Battle's aspect as terrifying enforcers for the Ecclesiarchy, you can have plenty of women as Inquisitors or Imperial Guard commanders or Navy admirals and so on and so forth.

In fact, the only part of the setting I can think of where you couldn't have women showing up is in the ranks of the Space Marines, and it's worth remembering that the Space Marines are the horrifying result of a disturbing cloning project and one of the more blatant signs of just how sick the Imperium is deep down. It's arguably IC sexist, but it isn't OOC sexist to depict an IC sexist society which you don't actually condone or support, and the Imperium is specifically a bad thing in a galaxy stuffed with bad things. Granted, it keeps humanity alive, but arguably the humanity of the far future doesn't even deserve to be saved considering the depths it lowers itself to for the sake of keeping the species going.

More species-inclusive really doesn't make sense though and completely misses the point of the setting. Again, the fact that the Imperium is hyper-xenophobic is specifically not a good thing - for one thing, it's strongly implied that the Chaos Gods are sustained and nourished by the constant psychic turmoil unleashed by the various warp-sensitive races of the galaxy hating and warring on each other.

40 millenia in the future mankind is ruled by the wise and culturally-diverce heritaged Divine Matriarch. The DM and her attendants, The Unisex Astra Order allow ftl travel by coonstantly maintaining The Song, a perpetual tune that generates the magic rainbow bridge allowing starwhale and space-dragon vessels to navigate the alternate dimension of The Warp, a strange realm of stars and clouds, home to the Astral Unicorns and the three-moon-wolves. The Divine Matriarch maintains peace throughout the Imperium with her Friendship -Wow! Sparklemotion Sailors, who ride their Star Pegasi through the Warp to seek out those suffering from low self-esteem. The Tech-Wiccans create marvelous toys for all the children in the Universe. And the Inquisition seeks out any signs of The Patriarchy, ever vigilant to threats to the Divine Matriarch's "Emotional Safe Space", especially those that show up in obscure hobby groups.
All was wonderfull throughout the Imperium, with every little girl given her own pony and every little boy castrated after making their first ejaculate donation to the Great Imperial Sperm-Clone Bank. All were content knowing that each planet of The Imperium is populated by an exact ratio of all genetic ancestries, just as all business practices are overseen by the Board of Correct Interpersonal Relations.

Love, Friendship, and Happy-Correct thoughts ruled throughout space.









ANDTHENOMGEVERYONEEISKILLEDBYTHEGOD-DAMNMOTHERFRELLINGTYRANIDS!!!!!!!!

I can see a female Space Marine, what with genetic engineering and PEDs and such.

But they would be almost indistinguishable from a male Space Marine.

I also have to think it's a miracle that Star Wars has been given such a pass from such types.

You have slavery, women running around in skimpy outfits, everyone carries a gun, some people can do things that others can't (use the force), not to mention the same deal - there aren't any female stormtroopers. Heck, I can't even think of a woman Jedi from the movies. Or starfighter pilots.

Quote from: TristramEvans;67023040 millenia in the future mankind is ruled by the wise and culturally-diverce heritaged Divine Matriarch. The DM and her attendants, The Unisex Astra Order allow ftl travel by coonstantly maintaining The Song, a perpetual tune that generates the magic rainbow bridge allowing starwhale and space-dragon vessels to navigate the alternate dimension of The Warp, a strange realm of stars and clouds, home to the Astral Unicorns and the three-moon-wolves. The Divine Matriarch maintains peace throughout the Imperium with her Friendship -Wow! Sparklemotion Sailors, who ride their Star Pegasi through the Warp to seek out those suffering from low self-esteem. The Tech-Wiccans create marvelous toys for all the children in the Universe. And the Inquisition seeks out any signs of The Patriarchy, ever vigilant to threats to the Divine Matriarch's "Emotional Safe Space", especially those that show up in obscure hobby groups.
All was wonderfull throughout the Imperium, with every little girl given her own pony and every little boy castrated after making their first ejaculate donation to the Great Imperial Sperm-Clone Bank. All were content knowing that each planet of The Imperium is populated by an exact ratio of all genetic ancestries, just as all business practices are overseen by the Board of Correct Interpersonal Relations.

Love, Friendship, and Happy-Correct thoughts ruled throughout space.

Not gonna lie, I would drop some MDMA and play the shit out of this.

TristramEvans - Your post is like 80s girls' cartoons meets SciFi Blue Rose.

Quote from: TristramEvans;67023040 millenia in the future mankind is ruled by the wise and culturally-diverce heritaged Divine Matriarch. The DM and her attendants, The Unisex Astra Order allow ftl travel by coonstantly maintaining The Song, a perpetual tune that generates the magic rainbow bridge allowing starwhale and space-dragon vessels to navigate the alternate dimension of The Warp, a strange realm of stars and clouds, home to the Astral Unicorns and the three-moon-wolves. The Divine Matriarch maintains peace throughout the Imperium with her Friendship -Wow! Sparklemotion Sailors, who ride their Star Pegasi through the Warp to seek out those suffering from low self-esteem. The Tech-Wiccans create marvelous toys for all the children in the Universe. And the Inquisition seeks out any signs of The Patriarchy, ever vigilant to threats to the Divine Matriarch's "Emotional Safe Space", especially those that show up in obscure hobby groups.
All was wonderfull throughout the Imperium, with every little girl given her own pony and every little boy castrated after making their first ejaculate donation to the Great Imperial Sperm-Clone Bank. All were content knowing that each planet of The Imperium is populated by an exact ratio of all genetic ancestries, just as all business practices are overseen by the Board of Correct Interpersonal Relations.

Love, Friendship, and Happy-Correct thoughts ruled throughout space.









ANDTHENOMGEVERYONEEISKILLEDBYTHEGOD-DAMNMOTHERFRELLINGTYRANIDS!!!!!!!!

You win!

Quote from: JeremyR;670234I can see a female Space Marine, what with genetic engineering and PEDs and such.

But they would be almost indistinguishable from a male Space Marine.

I also have to think it's a miracle that Star Wars has been given such a pass from such types.

You have slavery, women running around in skimpy outfits, everyone carries a gun, some people can do things that others can't (use the force), not to mention the same deal - there aren't any female stormtroopers. Heck, I can't even think of a woman Jedi from the movies. Or starfighter pilots.

There are female Jedi depicted in the prequels and throughout the Expanded Universe canon.

Quote from: dsivis;670242TristramEvans - Your post is like 80s girls' cartoons meets SciFi Blue Rose.

Heh, pretty much what I was going for. New wave internet feminism meets Rainbow  Brite inn spaaaace!

BOTH of those universes are fucked up.

- Ed C.

I am a fan of the Warhammer settings.

I prefer them to not cater to plitical correctness.

It's not "Happy Utopia Land" like Star Trek. (I like star trek; its just different)




This is what I identify with when I think Warhammer 40k:

Slaanesh was given life by the immorality and hubris of the ancient Eldar empire. As their empire reached its zenith, the Eldar became lost in their own decadence, for they experience sensation and emotion to a far greater degree than any other intelligent species of the galaxy. The capabilities of their highly advanced technology meant that the Eldar did not need to labour or wage war. Instead, they were able to dedicate their lives to whatever idle pursuits took their fancy. Over several generations, this indolence came to rule and pervert their spirits. In the Immaterium, the collective psychic reflections of their indolence and hedonism caused a new Chaos Power to stir, beginning in the 25th Millennium of the Terran calendar. Created by one species' pure dedication to indulgence, the first motes of what would become Slaanesh began to coalesce.

The dormant Slaanesh fed upon the unchecked collective psyche of the Eldar, drawing on their lusts and ambitions, their artistry and pursuit of excellence in all things. In turn, as Slaanesh grew, its nascent dreams trickled into the minds of the Eldar and fuelled their desires, pushing them ever onwards towards their eventual doom. Eventually, the Eldar civilisation devolved into little more than pleasure cults dedicated to every act of physical, mental and spiritual fulfillment. Blood stained the statuary of their plazas as crowds of drug-addled maniacs sated their violent desires in the streets of the Eldar homeworlds. On one particularly depraved night, the debauchery reached a terrible crescendo that tore out the heart of the Eldar empire and left it ravaged beyond recovery. The Fall of the Eldar in the early 30th Millennium was signalled by the birth-scream of Slaanesh, a tsunami of emotion that heralded the Prince of Pleasure arrival in the Realm of Chaos. The psychic implosion caised by Slaanesh's birth swallowed hundreds of worlds at the heart of the Eldar empire in what is now the Imperium of Man's Segmentum Obscurus, killing billions of Eldar in a single instant and devouring a great section of the galaxy in the process. Such was its ferocity that it overwhelmed the barrier between the material and the immaterial, forming the massive, permanent Warp rift later named by men as the Eye of Terror.

Rampant and hungry, Slaanesh devoured the minds and souls of the Eldar, and across the galaxy, that ancient race was almost wiped out. Slaanesh slew most of the Eldar and their Gods in the Immaterium, except for the Eldar God of War Kaela Mensha Khaine, whose energy was dispersed into many separate pieces scattered across the various Infinity Circuits of the Eldar Craftworlds, and the Laughing God Cegorach. Only a relative few Eldar survived Slaanesh's birth-feast. Other Eldar survivors included the Harlequin, and those Craftworld Eldar who were very far away from the Eldar homeworlds when the Warp rift formed. Most of the survivors that remain have become sworn enemies of the Dark Prince, and yet a few of them have formed isolated cabals that still behave as their ancestors did, perversely following the downward spiral of excess.

You can say RPG.net Pundit, it's not like they'd allow a quote from you to start a between - forums squabble anyway.

Wasn't there pretty much a cannonical thing from even GW that women turned into men when they joined Space Marines due to the whole genetic playing thing? Should sit well with all the genderfluid crowds.

That said, pretty sure the leaders of Adeptus probably care fuck and all about who's dying for the Imperium, as long as the machinery keeps on grinding and they can live cosy lives in bunkers of Terra.

The clue is in "Fascist", really.

Quote from: Bill;670275I am a fan of the Warhammer settings.

I prefer them to not cater to plitical correctness.

It's not "Happy Utopia Land" like Star Trek. (I like star trek; its just different)




This is what I identify with when I think Warhammer 40k:

Slaanesh was given life by the immorality and hubris of the ancient Eldar empire. As their empire reached its zenith, the Eldar became lost in their own decadence, for they experience sensation and emotion to a far greater degree than any other intelligent species of the galaxy. The capabilities of their highly advanced technology meant that the Eldar did not need to labour or wage war. Instead, they were able to dedicate their lives to whatever idle pursuits took their fancy. Over several generations, this indolence came to rule and pervert their spirits. In the Immaterium, the collective psychic reflections of their indolence and hedonism caused a new Chaos Power to stir, beginning in the 25th Millennium of the Terran calendar. Created by one species' pure dedication to indulgence, the first motes of what would become Slaanesh began to coalesce.

The dormant Slaanesh fed upon the unchecked collective psyche of the Eldar, drawing on their lusts and ambitions, their artistry and pursuit of excellence in all things. In turn, as Slaanesh grew, its nascent dreams trickled into the minds of the Eldar and fuelled their desires, pushing them ever onwards towards their eventual doom. Eventually, the Eldar civilisation devolved into little more than pleasure cults dedicated to every act of physical, mental and spiritual fulfillment. Blood stained the statuary of their plazas as crowds of drug-addled maniacs sated their violent desires in the streets of the Eldar homeworlds. On one particularly depraved night, the debauchery reached a terrible crescendo that tore out the heart of the Eldar empire and left it ravaged beyond recovery. The Fall of the Eldar in the early 30th Millennium was signalled by the birth-scream of Slaanesh, a tsunami of emotion that heralded the Prince of Pleasure arrival in the Realm of Chaos. The psychic implosion caised by Slaanesh's birth swallowed hundreds of worlds at the heart of the Eldar empire in what is now the Imperium of Man's Segmentum Obscurus, killing billions of Eldar in a single instant and devouring a great section of the galaxy in the process. Such was its ferocity that it overwhelmed the barrier between the material and the immaterial, forming the massive, permanent Warp rift later named by men as the Eye of Terror.

Rampant and hungry, Slaanesh devoured the minds and souls of the Eldar, and across the galaxy, that ancient race was almost wiped out. Slaanesh slew most of the Eldar and their Gods in the Immaterium, except for the Eldar God of War Kaela Mensha Khaine, whose energy was dispersed into many separate pieces scattered across the various Infinity Circuits of the Eldar Craftworlds, and the Laughing God Cegorach. Only a relative few Eldar survived Slaanesh's birth-feast. Other Eldar survivors included the Harlequin, and those Craftworld Eldar who were very far away from the Eldar homeworlds when the Warp rift formed. Most of the survivors that remain have become sworn enemies of the Dark Prince, and yet a few of them have formed isolated cabals that still behave as their ancestors did, perversely following the downward spiral of excess.

I think about Bolter penetration rules, how OP Black Templars will continue to be, why are Necrons so bland (though that changed slightly) and how they screwed up Running rules in last edition, but whatever floats your boat, mate.

EVERYTHING is related to gay sex, eventually (or any other fringe issue). I really don't understand why, but various "professional protestors" just feel that everything must be all about their pet issue. They always frame the argument that if you don't include their issue, then you must be some kind of homophobe/racist/etc. Even if their pet issue has absolutely nothing to do with the product.

The thing that bothers me the most about this is its a clear demonstration of the idea that if you create or enjoy media with a certain element you must then endorse that element.

Your novel has sexism? You must be a sexist.

Your movie depicts racism? You must be a racist.

Your comic plot relies on xenophobia? You must be a xenophobe.

Unless you bend over backwards to condem it (even if that changes your story, making it a morality tale about said element. And even then you're not totally safe because they might not get that it's satire i.e. 40k)

Add to that its the same impulse that "media is mind control" that makes people want to ban violent video games. If Call of Duty doesn't make people violent then 40k won't make people sexist. The same arguments apply to both. And it's hogwash.

"But if people are constantly exposed to ________, then it becomes the background cultural norm, meaning they're more likely to think _________ and do _________."

Madlib as desired.