"A dungeon is a series of scenes."

Black Vulmea · April 24, 2012, 05:40:25 PM

From the Troll in the Corner blog, a post about "classic dungeons."

Rincewind1 · April 24, 2012, 05:43:47 PM

The guy calls himself a 21st century Renaissance man. It's like shooting ducks in a bathtub.

Caesar Slaad · April 24, 2012, 05:47:47 PM

A poorly written one, maybe.

One Horse Town · April 24, 2012, 05:52:02 PM

Can we not have blind links please.

Dodger · April 24, 2012, 05:52:38 PM

Maybe to him it is.

DominikSchwager · April 24, 2012, 05:56:07 PM

So how would you define a dungeon then?

Géza Echs · April 24, 2012, 05:58:48 PM

The blog has some over-generalized breakdowns, but I think it could be handy for starting out GMs.

I have no problems with thinking of dungeons as a series of scenes, though. Reminds me of how adventure areas (buildings, levels, etc) are broken down in published adventures into individual room or encounter descriptions. Calling them a "scene" is just rebranding them as particular moments in an over-arching adventure. Shrug.

Marleycat · April 24, 2012, 06:02:08 PM

I think I understand what he is trying to say but dungeons are not scenes they are places that do things on their own and act or react to whoever or whatever is in them. Or I guess interact, whichever you like better.

Caesar Slaad · April 24, 2012, 06:02:55 PM

Quote from: DominikSchwager;533406So how would you define a dungeon then?

Either or both an environment to interact with or a setting to host planned action (which may or may not be scenes).

I don't object to someone seeing a dungeon that way, but that is sort of the mindset wizards got stuck in when they started with the whole "delve format" thing, to the detriment of the game.

DestroyYouAlot · April 24, 2012, 06:40:33 PM

I don't think what he's actually getting at there is all that offensive of a dungeon design philosophy - he doesn't seem to be using the term "scene" in a "high school drama / storygame playacting" sort of way. All the categories he's listed are pretty indicative of old school dungeons, he's just arriving at them from a different angle.

I can see where his premise statement would set off alarm bells, though.

jeff37923 · April 24, 2012, 06:46:49 PM

Quote from: Géza Echs;533408I have no problems with thinking of dungeons as a series of scenes, though. Reminds me of how adventure areas (buildings, levels, etc) are broken down in published adventures into individual room or encounter descriptions. Calling them a "scene" is just rebranding them as particular moments in an over-arching adventure. Shrug.

I would quibble here. It makes sense to me if the blogger claimed that an adventure was a series of scenes. I can easier see a dungeon as a scene than as a placemat upon which scenes occur.

Bloody Stupid Johnson · April 24, 2012, 06:55:59 PM

This bit makes me go "bwah?" a bit.

QuoteWhen designing your dungeon, start with the sites that you want to feature. Draw those on a piece of paper, simply as circles connected by lines. Then, flesh out each site. How big is it? How many rooms does it include? Where are the exits? What monsters should be included?

I think this is actually an outgrowth of his "series of scenes" stuff and is the opposite of some of the better dungeon design stuff I've seen (e.g. "Let There Be A Method To Your Madness" in Dragon/Best of Dragon) where you instead start by imagining what the original purpose of the complex was, who built it, its history, adding reasonable decay, and so on -a process giving a more logical layout and helping to suggest ideas.

You want to put cool traps and monsters in, sure, but I think that's the last step, not the first.

DominikSchwager · April 24, 2012, 07:25:47 PM

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;533413Either or both an environment to interact with or a setting to host planned action (which may or may not be scenes).

I don't object to someone seeing a dungeon that way, but that is sort of the mindset wizards got stuck in when they started with the whole "delve format" thing, to the detriment of the game.

Neither of those exclude a dungeon also being a series of scenes.
You have the temple of doom. it is a place in the swamps. people fear it, evil radiates from there and sometimes the things dewlling in it steal local villagers. It is a place, it interacts with the setting.

You have the temple of doom. It is dark and dank, with poor lighting. Corridors are flooded etc. It is a setting in which you host some scenes.

you have the temple of doom. Where you brave the temple guard, survive the collapsing corridor, rescue the troglodyte princess and slay the evil wizard. It is a series of scenes.

I think all of those are correct, depending on where in the adventure you are and what is happening.

Dog Quixote · April 24, 2012, 07:30:49 PM

I am the only one who remembers Advanced Fighting Fantasy?

Everything in that was broken down into scenes. The GM was called the Director.

Was that a storygame?

David Johansen · April 24, 2012, 07:57:47 PM

A dungeon is a set upon which scenes are played out.

"A dungeon is a series of scenes."

Dog Quixote