[5e] Why did they design Legendary creature initiative this way?

Doom · June 02, 2015, 02:23:35 PM

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;834573How do you feel about Legendary Resistance? Does it bother you if a dragon falls to a single spell?

See, it does bug me...even though I acknowledge that such should be possible. The old "roll a 1" should be there, and if it happens, it happens. Dumb luck is as much a part of fantasy as fearless heroics (cf. The Hobbit).

But when a 9th level mage can easily have 3 "game over" spells, and the other party members could also have as many, you pretty much have to give the dragon some sort of extra resistance, otherwise "dragon falls to a single spell" goes from "possible" to "no problem, complete cakewalk, next time attack with 3 dragons so there's a chance one can act on the second round".

camazotz · June 02, 2015, 02:30:44 PM

Quote from: Larsdangly;834404I dislike all games in which core rules, like initiative or damage and injury, apply differently to different 'classes' of creatures and/or PC's. The feel artificially complex to me, and impose a layer of 'meta' BS. So, while I very much like some new things introduced in 5E ('lairs' of powerful monsters), the tweaked initiative rules not one of them.

I have to ask....what are you talking about with the initiative rules? 5E's initiative rules are very consistent (Dex) and the only edge players have is a feat option, which is cool but costly.

Larsdangly · June 02, 2015, 03:56:21 PM

Quote from: camazotz;834607I have to ask....what are you talking about with the initiative rules? 5E's initiative rules are very consistent (Dex) and the only edge players have is a feat option, which is cool but costly.

I'm referring to the ability of certain kinds of creatures to get an extra action outside of the initiative order.

camazotz · June 02, 2015, 05:40:30 PM

Quote from: Larsdangly;834623I'm referring to the ability of certain kinds of creatures to get an extra action outside of the initiative order.

Ah, gotcha. That didn't strike me as unusual since there are numerous special exceptions and cases by class that effectively grant extra actions, attacks and such as well, so the idea of legendary actions just felt like an extension of that philosophy, but granted to monsters. It's something I actually thought would be useful back in my 1E/2E days so I guess it just never felt out of place to me to see it properly implemented.

Exploderwizard · June 03, 2015, 08:55:09 AM

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;834573How do you feel about Legendary Resistance? Does it bother you if a dragon falls to a single spell?

Nope. Doesn't bother me if it happens to a PC either.

Christopher Brady · June 03, 2015, 05:47:33 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard;834743Nope. Doesn't bother me if it happens to a PC either.

In my limited experience, it matters to the PC's is the big bad monster suddenly drops to a Sleep spell. The Wizard is all puffed up, everyone else tends to feel cheated out of a challenge that a lot may have been working themselves up for.

Exploderwizard · June 04, 2015, 08:56:31 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;834851In my limited experience, it matters to the PC's is the big bad monster suddenly drops to a Sleep spell. The Wizard is all puffed up, everyone else tends to feel cheated out of a challenge that a lot may have been working themselves up for.

I suppose the difference comes from how combat is approached in the game as a whole.

When playing an abstract system such as D&D, combat is simply something to be resolved expediently so that the exploration & interaction of play can be resumed.

If I were interested in dwelling on combat as an end to itself then I would choose a more robust system featuring specific wounds, active defenses, and more tactical options, such as GURPS.

I will always approach D&D as a game of gathering loot and acquiring power while trying to stay alive. That is what it was designed for and it does the job very well.

RPGPundit · June 06, 2015, 03:33:00 PM

I like the idea that really powerful opponents can make special attacks in response to things happening.