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5E Intellect Devourer preview.

Started by Omega, September 10, 2014, 05:12:42 AM

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crkrueger

#60
September 17, 2014, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;787449There is also nothing wrong with some things just being kind of scary regardless of level or other meta-game concepts.

Everyone fears the lowly Rot Grub and Ear Seeker.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

gamerGoyf

#61
September 17, 2014, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;787472Everyone fears the lowly Rot Grub and Ear Seeker.
This is tangential but the question has been eating at me for a while. What's the deal with Ear Seekers? The impression I got was that someone at TSR thought that listening at doors was a such a degenerate tactic that a new monster need to be written up that punished players for doing it :?

Armchair Gamer

#62
September 17, 2014, 06:44:41 PM
Quote from: gamerGoyf;787497This is tangential but the question has been eating at me for a while. What's the deal with Ear Seekers? The impression I got was that someone at TSR thought that listening at doors was a such a degenerate tactic that a new monster need to be written up that punished players for doing it :?

   You'd be correct ... and the 'someone at TSR' was Gary Gygax.

  "Because of this, continual listening becomes a great bother to the DM. While ear seekers will tend to discourage some, most players will insist on having their characters listen at doors at every pretense."--1st Edition DMG, p. 60

Sacrosanct

#63
September 17, 2014, 07:17:00 PM
I know quotes like that will be used to point out how gygax viewed d&D as DM vs PCs, but I think it's more accurate to say that Gary viewed the DM as monsters.  Ie., it's less about trying to screw the players as a frustrated DM, but more of, "the leader of this lair knows typical adventurer tactics, so its setting up defenses appropriately.", and nothing against the players personally

I could be wrong
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Shipyard Locked

#64
September 17, 2014, 07:26:22 PM Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 07:29:28 PM by Shipyard Locked
Interesting, so the ear seeker is not a dick DM move but emblematic of the awkward balancing act the game has long had between its "do smart things to stay alive" play style and its "good God do something interesting already!" play style.

Armchair Gamer

#65
September 17, 2014, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;787513Interesting, so the ear seeker is not a dick DM move but emblematic of the awkward balancing act the game has long had between its "do smart things to stay alive" play style and its "good God do something interesting already!" play style.

   Yes, although it's arguably either a suboptimal solution to a real problem, or a sign that the 'dungeon-crawling logistics puzzle' and 'fantasy adventure' sides of the game were already starting to show tension and conflict.

Iosue

#66
September 18, 2014, 04:13:18 AM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;787512I know quotes like that will be used to point out how gygax viewed d&D as DM vs PCs, but I think it's more accurate to say that Gary viewed the DM as monsters.  Ie., it's less about trying to screw the players as a frustrated DM, but more of, "the leader of this lair knows typical adventurer tactics, so its setting up defenses appropriately.", and nothing against the players personally

I could be wrong
I think it's more like Gygax thought he could write a book detailing various rules, resolutions systems, and advice, and thread through it a conversational, running joke about "players screw everything up, amirite?" without it being taken as anything other than that.  Little did he know that in the future, people would read it assuming he meant every word in Utmost. Seriousness.

Cf. Original D&D example of play, with the DM "Cursing the Caller's thoroughness."

Omega

#67
September 18, 2014, 05:12:08 AM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;787512I know quotes like that will be used to point out how gygax viewed d&D as DM vs PCs, but I think it's more accurate to say that Gary viewed the DM as monsters.  Ie., it's less about trying to screw the players as a frustrated DM, but more of, "the leader of this lair knows typical adventurer tactics, so its setting up defenses appropriately.", and nothing against the players personally

I could be wrong

That and discouraging overdoing things that needlessly bog the adventure down. A reaction to someone going "I listen at the door" over and over and over and over and over.

Its like the player who insists on trying to disbelieve EVERY encounter because one MIGHT be an illusion. etc ad tedium.

Caution is good.

Overdoing it isnt.

I can just imagine the amount of paranoia an intellect devourer would generate once the players and their characters become aware they are "out there..."

And damn I hate doppelgangers!!!

Exploderwizard

#68
September 18, 2014, 08:38:06 AM
Quote from: Omega;787588And damn I hate doppelgangers!!!

Dopplegangers aren't a problem for the properly prepared party. Before starting any adventure, establish a doppleganger password within the party.

Any time anyone is not within sight of the group, when they first appear, make them give you the doppleganger password. If they are unable to do so, then kill the damn doppleganger!!   :p
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Gold Roger

#69
September 18, 2014, 09:05:51 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;787614Dopplegangers aren't a problem for the properly prepared party. Before starting any adventure, establish a doppleganger password within the party.

Any time anyone is not within sight of the group, when they first appear, make them give you the doppleganger password. If they are unable to do so, then kill the damn doppleganger!!   :p

Doppelgangers can read thoughts^^

Natty Bodak

#70
September 18, 2014, 09:17:47 AM
Quote from: Gold Roger;787618Doppelgangers can read thoughts^^

They're even more diabolical than that. They have ears!
Festering fumaroles vent vile vapors!

jadrax

#71
September 18, 2014, 09:19:40 AM
Ignore these naysayers!

Exploderwizard's plan is perfect and means you have nothing to fear from us...

Erm, I mean from doppelgangers...

Natty Bodak

#72
September 18, 2014, 09:21:58 AM
Quote from: jadrax;787621Ignore these naysayers!

Exploderwizard's plan is perfect and means you have nothing to fear from us...

Erm, I mean from doppelgangers...

Is it just me or does jadrax seem a little off since he went off down that side tunnel for a piss?
Festering fumaroles vent vile vapors!

Exploderwizard

#73
September 18, 2014, 10:44:54 AM
Quote from: Gold Roger;787618Doppelgangers can read thoughts^^

Certainly.


Surface thoughts. If you are the type of person that always has passwords at the forefront of your brain then yes the doppleganger will pick them up.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Sacrosanct

#74
September 18, 2014, 10:46:00 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;787614Dopplegangers aren't a problem for the properly prepared party. Before starting any adventure, establish a doppleganger password within the party.

Any time anyone is not within sight of the group, when they first appear, make them give you the doppleganger password. If they are unable to do so, then kill the damn doppleganger!!   :p

Provided the party's encountered a doppleganger before.  If a group of PCs never have, they'd never even think to have such a precaution.

One of the tough things about player knowledge vs. character knowledge. :)
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.
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