This came up over on BGG/RPGG.

As it stands the use of poisons is a little odd depending on how you read it.
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Base poison costs 100gp and is a DC 10 CON save or take 1d4 poison damage. A poisoned blade will remain so for 1 minute.

But the entry on poison effect says that a poisoned target is at disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks. But does not state how long.

The Poisoners Kit costs 50gp and states it has everything needed to make poisons...

But... Making a vial of poison takes 20 days to craft and costs 50 GP according to the downtime crafting rules.
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Hoard of the Dragon Queen introduces the following.

Confusion Poison: DC 10 CON save or is Confused 1 minute. On a successfull save is confused 1 round.

Health Debilitating Poison: DC 10 dex save or take d10 poison damage (Possibly because poison was on a trap) and HP MAX is -5 until long rest. Id sau a CON save under other circumstances.

Frog Hallucinogen Poison: DC 12 CON save or effected simmilar to the Confusion poison for 10 minutes. No effect if makes save.

Wyvern Poison: DC 13 CON save or take 7d6 poison damage, 1/2 if saved.

Villain Poison on a weapon: Just +2d6 poison damage. Good for 3 hits.
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Have not seen Phandelver yet. Any new poisons in that?

Seems to me that using standard poison is as follows.

DC 10 Con save or take 1d4 poison damage and be disadvantaged. (I am not sure on the disadvantage duration. Till make a successful save? Till make a short rest? Till make a long rest?

A poisoned weapon is good for 1 min.

Crafting poison takes 20 days and costs 50 gold.

How would you handle poisons and the crafting of?

I'd just go back to the basics of Application, Onset Time, Symptoms. Saved Effect, Failed Effect, Duration, Medical Help, and leave most of the saves in CON checks.

Application: i.e. inhale, ingest, inject, contact.
Onset Time: how long before the first symptoms and effects are noticeable.
Symptoms: the flavor on how the results manifest, important to medical care.
Saved Effect: how it effects, if at all, those who successfully resist.
Failed Effect: how it effects those who failed to resist.
Duration: how long those effects last.
Medical Help: determine who, what, when, where, how, why, whatever is necessary to cure or mitigate all or part of the poison's details.

Poisons not affecting CON... I'm having difficulty seeing why, but maybe on the off chance someone has a good reason to create one. I reserve my doubts until then.

As for creation, sky's the limit with creativity. As long as you cover the basics, and can convert that into 5e-ese language, I don't see the problem here. It's the fine-tuning for your campaign that's the pain in the ass.

Quote from: Omega;789368Seems to me that using standard poison is as follows.

DC 10 Con save or take 1d4 poison damage and be disadvantaged. (I am not sure on the disadvantage duration. Till make a successful save? Till make a short rest? Till make a long rest?

A poisoned weapon is good for 1 min.

Crafting poison takes 20 days and costs 50 gold.

How would you handle poisons and the crafting of?

Looking at the variety of poisons in the Monster Manual for comparison, we have...

• Basilisk bite - 2d6 poison damage
  
• Chuul tentacles - DC13 save or be Poisoned + Paralyzed for one minute
  
• Couatl bite - DC13 save or be Poisoned + Unconscious for 24 hours
  
• Dretch gas cloud - DC11 save or be Poisoned for one turn, and have reduced actions
  
• Quasit claws - DC10 save or take 2d4 poison damage and be poisoned for one minute or until you do make the save (try each round)
  
• Yochlol tentacle - 6d6 poison damage
  
• Yochlol mist - DC14 save or be Poisoned and Incapacitated for one turn
  
• Bone Devil sting - 5d6 poison damage, plus DC14 save or be Poisoned for one minute or until you do make the save (try each round)
  
• Erinyes sword - 3d8 poison damage
  
• Erinyes arrows - 3d8 poison damage, plus DC14 save or be poisoned until it's magically removed
  
• Imp sting - 3d6 poison, DC11 save for half damage
  
• Green Dragon breath - X poison damage, save for half (amount of damage and difficulty of save vary based on dragon age)
  
• Drider bite - 2d8 poison damage
  
• Drow Elite Warrior crossbow - DC13 save or be Poisoned for one hour. Failing the save by 5 or more means Unconscious while Poisoned
  
• Drow Mage staff 1d6 poison damage
  
• Drow Priestess of Lolth scourge - 5d6 poison damage
  
• Ettercap bite - 1d8 poison damage, plus DC11 save or be Poisoned for one minute or until you do make the save (try each round)
  
• Flumph spray - DC10 save or be Poisoned for 1d4 hours. Creatures within 5' of you are also Poisoned until they leave that range. Bathing will get rid of the effect early
  
• Gnoll Fang of Yeenoghu bite - DC12 save or take 2d6 poison damage
  
• Svirfneblin dart - DC12 save or be Poisoned for one minute or until you do make the save (try each round)
  
• Iron Golem breath - 10d8 poison damage, DC19 save for half
  
• Grell tentacles - DC12 save or be Poisoned and Paralysed for one minute or until you do make the save (try each round)
  
• Homunculus bite - DC10 save or be Poisoned for one minute. If the save fails by 5 or more, the duration is 1d10 minutes and you are also Unconscious
  
• Medusa hair - 4d6 poison damage
  
• Medusa arrow - 2d6 poison damage
  
• Myconid Sprout fist - 1d4 poison damage
  
• Myconid Adult fist - 2d4 poison damage
  
• Myconid Sovereign fist - 3d4 poison damage
  
• Bone Naga bite - 3d6 poison damage
  
• Spirit Naga bite - 7d8 poison damage, DC13 save for half
  
• Guardian Naga bite - 10d8 damage, DC15 save for half
  
• Pseudodragon sting - DC11 save or be Poisoned for 1 hour. If the save fails by 5 or more you're also Unconscious for the duration
  
• Purple Worm sting - 12d6 poison damage, DC19 save for half
  
• Sprite arrows - DC10 save or be Poisoned for one minute. If the save fails by 5 or more you're also Unconscious for the duration
  
• Troglodyte stench - DC12 save or be Poisoned for a turn
  
• Wyvern sting - 7d6 poison damage, DC15 save for half
  
• Yuan-Ti Abomination bite - 3d6 poison damage
  
• Yuan-Ti Abomination arrows - 3d6 poison damage
  
• Yuan-Ti Malison bite - 2d6 poison damage
  
• Yuan-Ti Malison arrows - 2d6 poison damage
  
• Yuan-Ti Pureblood arrows - 2d6 poison damage
  
• Arcanaloth claw - 10d6 poison damage, DC14 save for half
  
• Flying Snake bite - 3d4 poison damage
  
• Giant Centipede bite - DC11 save or take 3d6 poison damage. If the damage reduces you to 0hp, you're not dying, but Poisoned and Paralysed for an hour even after being healed
  
• Giant Poisonous Snake bite - 3d6 poison damage, DC11 save for half
  
• Giant Scorpion sting - 4d10 poison damage, DC11 save for half
  
• Giant Spider bite - 2d8 poison damage, DC11 save for half. If the damage reduces you to 0hp, you're not dying, but Poisoned and Paralysed for an hour even after being healed
  
• Giant Wolf Spider bite - 2d6 poison damage, DC11 save for half. If the damage reduces you to 0hp, you're not dying, but Poisoned and Paralysed for an hour even after being healed
  
• Phase Spider bite - 4d8 poison damage, DC11 save for half. If the damage reduces you to 0hp, you're not dying, but Poisoned and Paralysed for an hour even after being healed
  
• Poisonous Snake bite - 2d4 poison damage, DC10 save for half
  
• Spider bite - DC9 save or take 1d4 poison damage
  
• Swarm of Snakes cumulative bites - 4d6 poison damage, DC10 save for half
  
• Assassin weapon - 7d6 poison damage, DC15 save for half

So it seems that the damage and the condition are two separate things. Some poisons do one, some do the other, and some do both. Some get no save, some get a save for half damage, and some get a save to avoid the effect completely. Also, some get an increased effect if the save fails by 5 or more.

With that in mind, I'd say that the standard poison does 1d4 damage on a failed save and is good for a minute, but doesn't also give the target the "Poisoned" condition. It takes 100gp to make, and requires 20 days and a Poisoner's Kit.

Whoa, you're right, it looks like the "poisoned" condition and actual poison attacks don't always go hand in hand... like they intuitively would.

Ugh, that's going to confuse a lot of people needlessly. Why the hell didn't they just leave the "nauseated" condition in the game and use that?

I don't want to be a hater, I'm gearing up for a 5e campaign, but realizations like this really shake my confidence.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;789392Ugh, that's going to confuse a lot of people needlessly. Why the hell didn't they just leave the "nauseated" condition in the game and use that?

YOINK! Gonna use that, thanks!

The poisoned condition is best reserved for those who order the special at the less than stellar tavern.

Could being poisoned just give the target 1 Exhaustion?

Actually... one could say that the more potent the poison, the more exhaustion that it gives. Truly bad stuff could gradually bring the victim to 5... which is death.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;789392Whoa, you're right, it looks like the "poisoned" condition and actual poison attacks don't always go hand in hand... like they intuitively would.

Ugh, that's going to confuse a lot of people needlessly. Why the hell didn't they just leave the "nauseated" condition in the game and use that?

I don't want to be a hater, I'm gearing up for a 5e campaign, but realizations like this really shake my confidence.

I guess when I read "nauseated", I think of a stomach virus. "Poisoned" is pretty specific.

that's been a weird thing I've noticed too.  I'm guessing it will all be in the DMG

Quote from: Exploderwizard;789400The poisoned condition is best reserved for those who order the special at the less than stellar tavern.

Or order it at a stellar tavern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-sBROXalU4

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;789392Whoa, you're right, it looks like the "poisoned" condition and actual poison attacks don't always go hand in hand... like they intuitively would.

Ugh, that's going to confuse a lot of people needlessly. Why the hell didn't they just leave the "nauseated" condition in the game and use that?

Some of that may be my fault, at least in part.  Early on in the design process there were HUGE numbers of conditions in the game, and I urged them to Simplify. I thought it was essential to de-jargonize the game and to allow the simplicity of the core mechanic and stuff like advantage/disadvantage to shine through without being bogged down by all kinds of added stuff.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;789400The poisoned condition is best reserved for those who order the special at the less than stellar tavern.

Quote from: Rincewind1;789416Or order it at a stellar tavern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-sBROXalU4

Change my order to the soup! :eek:

I have to admit, I've never been impressed with any take on poison in D&D; most core materials make it far more trouble than it's worth, and most 3rd party stuff I've seen has made it ridiculous NOT to use poison.

I am totally going to run poison with the Exhaustion rules. I think its a really simple easy match up.

Poisons will have

Vector - ingest, inject, inhale, contact/absorb
Onset - number of rounds/turns/days until they become active
Severity - the target number for any Con saves
Magnitude - how frequently round/turns/days you need to make a con check
Duration - how long they last in your system
Special outcome - some fantasy poisons might not kill they might specifically paralyse, blind or whatever in this case there will be "n" steps to that effect
Cost per dose - in GP
 
So you are exposed to the vector. After Onset rounds you make your first save. Failure results in a rank of exhaustion. You make ongoing checks (with any exhaustion modifiers) based on Magnitude for the Duration.


So:

Anna's Tears - poison brewed from pungent marsh weed that is ingested
Vector - Ingest
Onset - 5 +1d6 turns
Severity - DC 10
Magnitude - hourly
Duration - 8 +1d6 hours
Cost - 10gp

Marlam - heavy metal type poison
Vector - Ingest
Onset - 3+1d3 Hours
Severity - DC-18
Magnitude - Daily
Duration -2 days (note this means that a single dose can't kill you have to keep on dosing someone for an extended period)
Cost - 50gp

Daran's Spike - weapon coating
Vector - Inject
Onset - 1d3 rounds
Severity - DC12
Magnitude - 1 check per round
Duration 6+1d6 rounds
Cost - 100gp to coat a weapon the coating will allow 3 sucessful infections

Pan's touch - Paralysing contact poison
Vector - Contact
Onset - 1d3 rounds
Severity - DC - 15
Magitude - 1 check per round
Special - requires 2 stages (ie 2 failed checks) to paralyse all external muscles
Duration - 5 +1d6 turns (note this means that you are almost certain to fail the checks as you need to make 10 saves a minute for at least 60 minutes. Its the sort of poison super assasins and Evil Vizirs use in fantasy novels to protect their encoded messages or secret treasure)
Cost - 500gp

Quote from: jibbajibba;789836I am totally going to run poison with the Exhaustion rules. I think its a really simple easy match up.

Poisons will have

Vector - ingest, inject, inhale, contact/absorb
Onset - number of rounds/turns/days until they become active
Severity - the target number for any Con saves
Magnitude - how frequently round/turns/days you need to make a con check
Duration - how long they last in your system
Special outcome - some fantasy poisons might not kill they might specifically paralyse, blind or whatever in this case there will be "n" steps to that effect
Cost per dose - in GP
 
So you are exposed to the vector. After Onset rounds you make your first save. Failure results in a rank of exhaustion. You make ongoing checks (with any exhaustion modifiers) based on Magnitude for the Duration.

This is a great template for poisons! Thanks much.