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Author Topic: 5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling  (Read 35703 times)

S'mon

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« on: September 07, 2019, 02:59:52 AM »
So, I got my EK yesterday. One adventure (set in the Forgotten Realms) involves two homosexual gnome 'kings' who are married to each other and co-rule in tandem, only one has gone mad and imprisoned the other.

Wondering if I can/should try to make this work, or ignore it. Making them brothers might make more sense. OTOH I have had gay male NPC relationships in my FR before, but only for humans, and I presented it as tolerated not socially sanctioned. I suppose I could go with Gnomes Are Into That Kinda Thing... but I'd like it make some kind of sense. I guess neither could be a hereditary monarch - they'd have to be elected together?

cranebump

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 04:11:59 AM »
No knowledge of the EK, but if I took a stab at it, I'd consider the fact that they're lovers could explain why they co-ruled in the first place as, under normal circumstances, they'd have tried to oust each other. Since they were lovers, though, they ruled together, until things went south. It wouldn't matter if it was socially acceptable, since, as rulers, they could ignore convention, or they could simply rule that this is okay. Not knowing how sexuality is dealt with in the FR, I have no context to determine what the society at large would think, much less the specific Gnomish kingdom.
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Omega

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2019, 06:14:18 AM »
So they outsourced Essentials to Paizo huh? :rolleyes:

As for how to handle it?

Lots of ways really. You know your group and what they will and wont put up with.

Some personal thoughts on some twists to this sordid tale.

1: One of the dwarves was originally female and has been changed by ye ol Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity.

2: One of them is not male. Surface people can not tell male and female dwarves apart. Or better. Both are really female! :cool:

3: One of them is not male and is pretending. Is she smitten with the other? Is she hiding from an enemy in plain sight? and so on.

4: Some ancient curse can only be broken if two kings sit on the throne.

5: The diabolocal demon thingy Oziap laid the vile "Curse of Woke!" on the hapless dwarves! :eek:

S'mon

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2019, 07:33:39 AM »
Quote from: cranebump;1102868
No knowledge of the EK, but if I took a stab at it, I'd consider the fact that they're lovers could explain why they co-ruled in the first place as, under normal circumstances, they'd have tried to oust each other. Since they were lovers, though, they ruled together, until things went south. It wouldn't matter if it was socially acceptable, since, as rulers, they could ignore convention, or they could simply rule that this is okay. Not knowing how sexuality is dealt with in the FR, I have no context to determine what the society at large would think, much less the specific Gnomish kingdom.

So they could have been rivals for the crown who fell in love then ruled together (until one went mad). It will feel weird to the players I think, but that's not necessarily a bad thing since Gnomes are basically Fey. :D

S'mon

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2019, 07:46:16 AM »
Quote from: Omega;1102875
So they outsourced Essentials to Paizo huh? :rolleyes:

It does look like a bit of Performative Wokeness, but I think I can probably make it work.

Some good ideas, thanks Omega. I like the subversion of one gnome being secretly female - perhaps discovering that drove the other one mad?! :D

My players will be everything from a grizzled ex-Army Sergeant, to typical London student types. No radical SJWs or social conservatives AFAIK.

Chris24601

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2019, 08:21:58 AM »
So, just so I have this straight (heh), WotC released an adventure where large numbers of mostly heterosexual players (being 97% of the population) will be playing in sessions where the default PC response is going to be ganging up to beat a gay man to death?

I think the Woke has actually reached Plaid.

S'mon

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2019, 08:27:39 AM »
Quote from: Chris24601;1102888
So, just so I have this straight (heh), WotC released an adventure where large numbers of mostly heterosexual players (being 97% of the population) will be playing in sessions where the default PC response is going to be ganging up to beat a gay man to death?

A Gay Gnome, to be Gnorrect.

deadDMwalking

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2019, 09:06:30 AM »
Quote from: S'mon;1102890
A Gay Gnome, to be Gnorrect.

With mental health issues, apparently.
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Rhedyn
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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2019, 09:13:24 AM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1102895
With mental health issues, apparently.
Guys, I think this adventure is a different kind of woke...

jeff37923

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2019, 09:45:29 AM »
Quote from: S'mon;1102858
So, I got my EK yesterday. One adventure (set in the Forgotten Realms) involves two homosexual gnome 'kings' who are married to each other and co-rule in tandem, only one has gone mad and imprisoned the other.

Wondering if I can/should try to make this work, or ignore it. Making them brothers might make more sense. OTOH I have had gay male NPC relationships in my FR before, but only for humans, and I presented it as tolerated not socially sanctioned. I suppose I could go with Gnomes Are Into That Kinda Thing... but I'd like it make some kind of sense. I guess neither could be a hereditary monarch - they'd have to be elected together?

That the gnomes are gay isn't where I think there will be a problem with this module, it is the reasoning behind why one went mad. As it is presented (and no, I haven't had my coffee yet, so I may be misinterpreting), it seems that even gay gnomes in a stable married relationship are prone to going crazy.
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cranebump

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2019, 09:58:48 AM »
Quote from: jeff37923;1102901
That the gnomes are gay isn't where I think there will be a problem with this module, it is the reasoning behind why one went mad. As it is presented (and no, I haven't had my coffee yet, so I may be misinterpreting), it seems that even gay gnomes in a stable married relationship are prone to going crazy.

Well, as has been said before, people should marry who they want. We all have the right to be equally miserable.:-) (that would be marriage #1 for me--marriage #2 is perfect)

I think this is dead on, as sexuality isn't an issue. What matters is the effect of the relationship on the scenario, and how  it drove/drives the current situation. I assume, non-mad partner would like mad-partner made whole again without harming him? That's the thing that matters. To make the rulers gay, with no bearing on the module's specifics, would be a rather weak gesture. In any case, it shouldn't make much difference, unless there is a taboo against homesexuality, and the PCs involvement in it becomes an issue, as they get associated with "immorality." In that case, they sort of "strike a blow for justice," which, to some of the PCs (the NG/CG ones maybe?), might be a motivation to get involved. I think there are ways that the same sex relationship would become an interesting social subplot. For example, if there's a PC whose beliefs are antithetical to homosexuality, but they choose to get involved due to a greater harm caused by not addressing the situation, then you get some interesting roleplay out of that (if the players are into the RP aspect). Maybe a LG Cleric finds out there's more shades of grey than they initially believed. Things like that.

On the other hand, maybe no one bats an eye at it, and it's just another adventure, which is fine, too (and easier to run, I would think).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 10:02:06 AM by cranebump »
"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows..."

Haffrung

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2019, 12:14:03 PM »
Just means more revision work for those of us who don't incorporate modern values (and by 'modern' I mean values from the last 200 years) in our fantasy RPGs. In my worlds, nobles marry to have children and carry on the family lineage. They also treat their children as pawns, and probably beat them too. Because that's the way brutal societies governed by tradition and vicious competition work. Love or sexual preference doesn't enter into it.

Are my fantasy RPG worlds hostile to modern sensibilities around gender and sex? Yep. They're hostile to all sorts of things that we believe today - that's one of the things that makes them dramatic, exotic, and perilous. I wouldn't want to spend 15 minutes in my settings.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 12:17:37 PM by Haffrung »
 

Razor 007

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2019, 01:35:17 PM »
Just when I think the D & D 5E Essentials Kit appears to be a great introductory product for the hobby; I discover that once again, you are invited to eat a bowl of frosted homo flakes for breakfast.

Why does WOTC feel the need to stuff this crap into their products?  Are they secretly trying to out-Paizo, Paizo?
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Armchair Gamer

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2019, 02:34:56 PM »
Quote from: Razor 007;1102920
Just when I think the D & D 5E Essentials Kit appears to be a great introductory product for the hobby; I discover that once again, you are invited to eat a bowl of frosted homo flakes for breakfast.

Why does WOTC feel the need to stuff this crap into their products?  Are they secretly trying to out-Paizo, Paizo?

My own slightly paranoid theory? If you don't approve of LGBTQ+ sexual acts, they don't want you playing the game.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 02:37:51 PM by Armchair Gamer »

Crusader X

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5e Essentials Kit "married Gnome Kings" co-ruling
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2019, 02:43:36 PM »
Quote from: Razor 007;1102920
Just when I think the D & D 5E Essentials Kit appears to be a great introductory product for the hobby; I discover that once again, you are invited to eat a bowl of frosted homo flakes for breakfast.

Why does WOTC feel the need to stuff this crap into their products?  Are they secretly trying to out-Paizo, Paizo?


Awhile back Jeremy Crawford made it clear that he's pushing his LGBQT agenda into every D&D product WotC puts out.

That was around the same time I stopped purchasing WotC products, and focused instaed on agenda-less OSR products.