I have a million problems with what I've seen of 4e, but maximizing damage on a crit doesn't sound so bad. They're starting to go in the right direction, but not far enough. What I think might be a good idea, is have creatures inflict maximum damage on a natural 20, and then in addition to that, have weapons inflict crit damage.

So if I normally inflict 1d10+5 dmg on an attack, then on a natural 20, I inflict 15 pts of dmg. In addition to that, I'd add crit damage dice that will vary depending on the weapon type, and I'd make that crit damage an "exploding die", so that every time you roll maximum crit damage, you roll that die again, and add to it.

For example, a dagger inflicts d4 crit damage. On a 4, roll another d4 and add the result to the damage total. If you roll a 4 again, you repeat this process.

This would be grittier and more dangerous than what they're proposing, but personally, I like the faint possibility of an insta-kill.

If you have the crit die explode by rerolling itself -1 you simplify the math. The average roll goes for 2.5 for a d4 to 3, a d6 goes from 3.5 to 4, etc. But then you step even farther away from the ease and simplicity of just rolling max damage.

Quote from: HaffrungI'm really curious if we'll see some sort of script immunity hard-coded into the 4E rules: Mooks cannot kill PCs, only Named Foes can, or something like that.

With no snark at all, I fully expect that in, or by, 5th edition, we will see "Death is a small inconvenience" like WoW, Guild Wars, and most other MMORPGs.

The MMORPG industry makes much, much more money than the TTRPG industry.  Well over an order of magnitude more.  Simple economic selfinterest means that TTRPGs will continue to look more and more like MMORPGs.

Quote from: Old GeezerWith no snark at all, I fully expect that in, or by, 5th edition, we will see "Death is a small inconvenience" like WoW, Guild Wars, and most other MMORPGs.

The MMORPG industry makes much, much more money than the TTRPG industry.  Well over an order of magnitude more.  Simple economic selfinterest means that TTRPGs will continue to look more and more like MMORPGs.

With a tiny amount of snark, smaller than "roll up a new character in minutes, find old character's map, pursue revenge against monsters that killed old character (if feasible)"?

Not to my liking.  Too much Precious Snowflake Syndrome.

This change just bugs me.  Not because I'm in love with 3e's crit system, or that I don't like the pre-3e crit system.  But because they dedicated a whole article to it, as if it were marginally important.  It's so inconsequential (to me).

First time in the 4e drama cycle where I've felt that I was seeing a change for the sake of change.

I'm on board with the new traps.  I like the new cosmology.  I don't mind what's in races and classes (from what little I've seen).  I even like SWSE.

This just leaves me, not quite shaking my head, but rolling my eyes and shrugging my shoulders.

Quote from: Christmas ApeWith a tiny amount of snark, smaller than "roll up a new character in minutes, find old character's map, pursue revenge against monsters that killed old character (if feasible)"?

Despite my problems with the current edition, Christmas Ape has a point. See this situation:

DM: "Okay, chief....the ogre just inflicted 12 points on your fighter.

Player: "Oh, Hell! My fighter, Battleaxe Bob, is dead. :mad:

DM: "Everyone else continue. Dude, roll up a new character."

Player: "Fine." :mad:  

(five minutes of furious scribbling and rolling)

Player: "I'm done."

DM: "Let me see that. Okay, you've got another fighter. Stats look all right, and...what the Hell?! His name is Battleaxe Bob, the Second? :what:

Player: "Yep. When he finds out what happened to his clone....er, his "cousin", he'll have his revenge. And revenge is a dish best served cold...." :hehe:

DM: :rolleyes:

Repeat this seven or eight times. Hilarity ensues! :haw:

Seriously though, I don't mind characters coming back from the dead, but I want it to be something that contributes to the story. Like if you ressurect the character, you run the risk of bringing back Something Really Bad. :hehe:

Or maybe the characters need to journey into the Realms of Death to bring back their dear, departed buddy, and maybe even the dead character has some "adventures" of sorts while in the afterlife, at least before he reaches his FINAL destination in said afterlife.

But just raising the dead without consequence is boring. I want some story potential there. Know what I mean? :raise:

I like this change because it's a step towards less dice rolling in combat -- fewer things slow down combat more than rolling three or more iterative attacks (something I hope goes away in 4e) and scoring a couple of crits.  More crits is also a nice boost for weapon wielders.

Quote from: Christmas ApeWith a tiny amount of snark, smaller than "roll up a new character in minutes, find old character's map, pursue revenge against monsters that killed old character (if feasible)"?

Yes.

Have you played World of Warcraft?  Your character's ghost reappears at the nearest graveyard.  You can run back to your body and voila! instant resurrection.  

Or, you can resurrect at the graveyard with a penalty to your equipment condition.

In Guild Wars you simply "pop alive" at the nearest "Resurrection Shrine".  You take a minus for a while, but you just come back to life.

I truly, seriously expect to see something like that.  No "Reroll Stupid Bob with the Axe the Second (third, fourth, eighty-ninth)", no find a cleric.  Just "Poof!  Tinker Bell is Alive."

Quote from: Old GeezerYes.

Have you played World of Warcraft?  Your character's ghost reappears at the nearest graveyard.  You can run back to your body and voila! instant resurrection.  

Or, you can resurrect at the graveyard with a penalty to your equipment condition.

In Guild Wars you simply "pop alive" at the nearest "Resurrection Shrine".  You take a minus for a while, but you just come back to life.

I truly, seriously expect to see something like that.  No "Reroll Stupid Bob with the Axe the Second (third, fourth, eighty-ninth)", no find a cleric.  Just "Poof!  Tinker Bell is Alive."

Will be it be explained on a Wizards design blog with the increasingly familiar "most gamers disliked or did not utilize..."?

If all it took for success was MMORPG emulation, Everquest d20 would have outsold everybody instead of bombing hard. So far WotC seems capable of drawing a line between what MMOs offer and what TT games offer. The shape of that line will largely determine how much I like 4E when it finally rolls out.

Quote from: HaffrungRegardless of whether monsters can use magic weapons, the upshot of the new crit rule is that PCs always have a chance for a crit, while monsters will rarely have a chance for a crit. The PCs have kewl new powers, HP inflation, etc. while monsters don't keep pace. It's pretty clear by now that 4E is aiming for a superheroic powergaming feel, with more and more of the lethal dangers to PCs being mitigated or done away with. Spider-Man never gets killed by his opponents. Why should PowerAxeDwarf-Man? I'm really curious if we'll see some sort of script immunity hard-coded into the 4E rules: Mooks cannot kill PCs, only Named Foes can, or something like that.

Way to blow it out of proportion.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: B.T.Way to blow it out of proportion. :rolleyes:

Please. Every single developer note thus far has discussed how PCs are going to have their power levels ramped up, with at least most of them hinting or flat out stating that "monsters" (which I read as including NPCs; basically, anyone not a PC) will be made less powerful than an equivalent PC.
 
They've even stated that the default assumption for combat is that every PC will be fighting a seperate opponent, each of which will be weaker in combat than the PC.
 
Saying 4e is aiming for a superhero powergaming feel isn't hyperbole or even speculation, anyone with any reasoning abilities whatsoever should be able to see that coming a mile away (unless these articles they are releasing are just flat-out lies).
 
If you like the new direction of D&D, fine. But some of us are really fucking tired of suffering fools who keep insisting that the feel of the game hasn't changed when even a blind deaf five year old can clearly determine it has by this point.
 
The criticism isn't of this one small change - it's about seeing yet another piece of the larger puzzle (which keeps looking suspiciously like a WoW/Exalted hybrid and not traditional D&D).

So how does that turn into NPCs never critting?

The Dungeon Master's Guide will come with a special d19.