Quote from: Crimhthan;983639Another nice try at slandering me and my game and my players.  Your sick amusement is misplaced.

Quoting you is not slander. You said you value your PCs magic items over the life of your PC. I find that laughably silly. And there is nothing at all sick about my very healthy laughter.

But if your group really has 10 TPKs per year for each of 43 years they have to be the saddest bunch of saps that ever rolled a D20.

QuoteMy players recognize that honor requires that they not lose their hard won magic items (and treasure) and they only lose them, when monsters pry them from their cold dead fingers. They would never accept having those items removed arbitrarily, if your players are fine with you arbitrarily taking their magic items way, that is your game not mine.

Based on the campaign stats you gave us there are a whole lot of monsters prying magic items out of the hands of the thousands of dead PCs owned by your sad players.

Let me correct another one of your mistakes. I never said that the GM should arbitrarily take away magic items. That's not something I said so either you are confused or you just made that up...or both.
 

QuoteMy players recognize that those things are for their families and they hope to pass those items down to their sons and daughters.

I'm going to assume that you meant to say that your players want their PCs to be able to pass magic items on to their sons and daughters not that the players are passing on magic items to the players' families.  Roleplayers occasionally mix player and PC so ordinarily I'd pass over this sort of careless language use but with you it's difficult to tell which idiosyncratic language usage is accidental and which unusual usage is intentional on your part. For all I know your players really are intending to pass magic items on to their real world children.

Quote from: rgrove0172;983645Im sure you have all experienced, as I have, the players simply scratching out the name on his character sheet and inserting a new one.

I saw that a few times when we were all still in high school. It seemed to silly to me at the time so I didn't allow it, though some other DMs did.
 

Quote from: Skarg;983774I started with TFT, where resurrection requires a very recently-slain and intact body, a _very_ powerful wizard who happens to know that spell and be willing to cast it on your dead pal, a lot of fatigue, a success roll, and costs five attribute points (which are a big deal - it's about like losing 5 D&D levels). I remember one character who was resurrected twice - the first time she wasn't her old self, and the second time she became a fairly annoying/appalling mentally/behaviorally challenged embarrassment. It was something of a mercy when she died the third time, though I also felt rather guilty since it was my character who accidentally killed her trying to help her by hacking at the foe she was grappled with and accidentally dealing her a killing blow.

Now that's the sort of resurrection mechanic that makes you think hard about whether the candle is worth the coin.

Also put me down for new characters don't start with the same experience as established characters, that character clones annoy me and are unacceptable unless the setting already includes clones of characters e.g. Paranoia, and that new PCs don't appear until it makes sense for someone new to join the group – until then the player can run one of the NPCs (when we play there usually is one or more NPCs in most RPG parties).

Quote from: Crimhthan;983817I always start people at Level One regardless of the level of the rest of the party.

Same here.

Quote from: Crimhthan;983817I always start people at Level One regardless of the level of the rest of the party.

Me too. But I've never played a game where we didn't always start at 1st level of its equivalent. Not my bag.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.

Quote from: trechriron;982399Yeah, yeah, but does it make my penis LOOK bigger?

It's a bit tongue-in-cheek mate. I can get a little excited and I also like to have a little fun. What I'm generally shooting for (in tone): We're in the GM's Green Room, shooting the shit about our games, and I stand up and make my Jester's Rant not only to get a couple chuckles but also to nudge you with my elbow and say "... you know what I'm saying?" I'm well aware there are lots of way doing things. I'm not here to try and catalog all of them; I'm here to share my opinions, experiences and approaches.

In other words, it's not about YOU Voros. It's about ME. Duh. (<-- poking fun again...)

I didn't see the original post just CKruger quoting it. Would have known it was tongue in cheek if I knew it was you. I always identify you by the Jack Black avatar.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;984045It gets sadder the more you look at it:

Quote from: Crimhthan;983814Sorry 9 total counting me. Two have passed away, so only seven of us left, four of us still game together and the other three show up 4-6 times a year, now down to 3-4 times per year.



If you run the numbers, this almost certainly means that each individual player was averaging a PC death once every 2-4 sessions for 43 years. With 8 players and conservative estimates, each individual session averages at least 2 PC deaths. Obviously they're having fun, so more power to them, but that is the bleakest and most nihilistic D&D campaign I've ever heard of.

(I wrote this before seeing the analysis in the other thread demonstrating that Crimhthan's claims about his frequency of play are actually complete bullshit. But I'm going to go ahead and post it any way.)

It sounds hilarious, though, these guys playing forever yet never getting any better with tactics or planning, like a perpetual Groundhog Day campaign where they just keep delving into the same DIY dungeon and never get past Room 13 for 43 years...

Quote from: Zevious Zoquis;983843It's wise for the rest of the party to have weapons at the ready during the incantation, just in case Sir Giligad sits up and immediately starts trying to rip the flesh off anyone within reach.  

Hehe... funny but of course...

Quote from: Crimhthan;983882If I had thought of this, then my players might be really into raise dead, since it would be a different type of challenge where you never know what is going to happen and there would be some many ways to play it, so no obvious warning until it goes sideways. I may have to add this in.

If it's a known possibility, hopefully they have some rope and think to tie him down instead.

The very first Revival spell we saw cast in TFT (on a close NPC ally & party-member), the GM thought to not only reduce the attributes but also have the personality affected, and when she got revived the second time, he did a brilliant job of taking that further, creating a childish stubborn not-all-there personality that frustratingly thought she was right about everything, and would call people who disagreed with her dumb, and believe it. It was funny, interesting, sad, and made it extremely clear that even with a revival, death had awful consequences.

In GURPS there are all sorts of possible side-effects for revival detailed in the Fright rules and the huge list of Disadvantages.

Quote from: Dumarest;984052It sounds hilarious, though, these guys playing forever yet never getting any better with tactics or planning, like a perpetual Groundhog Day campaign where they just keep delving into the same DIY dungeon and never get past Room 13 for 43 years...

Well Room 13 has some really experienced and well-equipped monsters by now.

Maybe they've even raised the slain PCs into a zombie brigade.

Quote from: Skarg;984217Maybe they've even raised the slain PCs into a zombie brigade.

Never underestimate the horror of a familiar PC or NPC returning as the undead. Good times!

Quote from: Skarg;984217Well Room 13 has some really experienced and well-equipped monsters by now.

Maybe they've even raised the slain PCs into a zombie brigade.

Oh, the awful feeling when you realize you were playing the NPC opposition:D!

You know, I also don't like killing characters and TPKs, especially TPKs, because I don't want to have to redesign the campaign.  When a player dies and changes a character, I suddenly have to do more work to balance the encounters again.  And worse, if everyone dies, I suddenly have to think of a new reason why they're after "Morgath the Mummer", because my players role play.  Which means that they won't know of Morgath or his temple complex, because cell phones don't exist in most fantasy settings.

And if everyone starts back at the starting point (assuming D&D or other level based game system) means that Morgath (who's a level 4+ adventure series) may never show up, meaning I have to redo everything.

It's a hassle.

Also, character death is not nor should be the only measure of failure.  It's lazy to think that way.

Quote from: AsenRG;984296Oh, the awful feeling when you realize you were playing the NPC opposition:D!

I do love (seeing) that feeling (in my players' eyes). It only happens occasionally - only when sandboxing, never going to happen running a Paizo AP - but I remember my 4e Southlands game, the rise of the Black Sun, the final revelation in the eyes of the players when they realised they'd been comprehensively out-maneuvered by Borritt Crowfinger the Necromancer... the great PC hero Varek Tigerclaw ended up in a doomed defence of Bisgen the starter town, & everyone died.

The best thing was how that campaign provided fodder for years of future games, and a Warning From History - so the current PCs & players 7 years later are way more careful & clever.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;984306You know, I also don't like killing characters and TPKs, especially TPKs, because I don't want to have to redesign the campaign.  When a player dies and changes a character, I suddenly have to do more work to balance the encounters again.  And worse, if everyone dies, I suddenly have to think of a new reason why they're after "Morgath the Mummer", because my players role play.  Which means that they won't know of Morgath or his temple complex, because cell phones don't exist in most fantasy settings.

And if everyone starts back at the starting point (assuming D&D or other level based game system) means that Morgath (who's a level 4+ adventure series) may never show up, meaning I have to redo everything.

It's a hassle.

Also, character death is not nor should be the only measure of failure.  It's lazy to think that way.

I'm with you on that! I'm getting lazy in my old age. So, I don't want to keep having to redo the same stuff or change it over and over.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;984306You know, I also don't like killing characters and TPKs, especially TPKs, because I don't want to have to redesign the campaign.  When a player dies and changes a character, I suddenly have to do more work to balance the encounters again.  And worse, if everyone dies, I suddenly have to think of a new reason why they're after "Morgath the Mummer", because my players role play.  Which means that they won't know of Morgath or his temple complex, because cell phones don't exist in most fantasy settings.

And if everyone starts back at the starting point (assuming D&D or other level based game system) means that Morgath (who's a level 4+ adventure series) may never show up, meaning I have to redo everything.

That's just dumb. The world doesn't need to change to match some new character. The world is the world. Characters deal with it. TPK? The world moves on. Make up new characters. Maybe they are interested in pursuing what happened to those other fools (a common Call of Cthulhu trope), or maybe you don't railroad the players into doing the same thing.

Of course, if you're concerned with some plot narrative you've created, then I can see why it would be inconvenient. That's why RPGs aren't good vehicles for telling stories, they're good for generating them.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;984306Also, character death is not nor should be the only measure of failure.  It's lazy to think that way.

Again, the same tired false argument. Guess what? No one has ever said character death is the only measure of failure. We use all the other (capture/ransom/consequences/poverty/et al) outcomes as well. We just keep death on the table as a final possible consequence.

Skarg the way your GM handled the Revival spell in TFT was great. It would also be a perfect way of handling something like that in Call of Cthuhu. I did something similar in CoC with some NPCs who lost INT due to some blasphemous horror or weird effect. One guy was an Australian Geologist. I think his INT went down to 6 or 8. He still liked rocks though he didn't exactly remember why. Very Flowers for Algernon.

Your description of Revival makes me want to give the players in CoC access to a spell with that sort of side effect just to watch the horror that ensues.

Quote from: Skarg;984216Tthe GM thought to not only reduce the attributes but also have the personality affected, and when she got revived the second time, he did a brilliant job of taking that further, creating a childish stubborn not-all-there personality that frustratingly thought she was right about everything, and would call people who disagreed with her dumb, and believe it.

For some reason this sounds really familiar right now.

Quote from: Dumarest;984052It sounds hilarious, though, these guys playing forever yet never getting any better with tactics or planning, like a perpetual Groundhog Day campaign where they just keep delving into the same DIY dungeon and never get past Room 13 for 43 years...

Phil Connors must be one of his players.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;984306And worse, if everyone dies, I suddenly have to think of a new reason why they're after "Morgath the Mummer"

Well you could always let Morgath successfully advance his plans. Since he's the villain, he'll probably do some more villany that will serve as a hook for the next party. Or just let them roll up a bunch of PCs with a grudge against Morgath....

Hello Morgath, my name is . You killed my father, prepare to die!