This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: "3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"  (Read 70673 times)

gleichman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4541
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1320 on: August 25, 2012, 11:32:52 AM »
Quote from: Lord Mistborn;576474
-_- or not that's fine too.


I didn't expect a different reaction. At this point I doubt that there's anything that would cause Benoist to reflect upon himself and the way he treats people.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you've simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18318
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1321 on: August 25, 2012, 11:51:34 AM »
Quote from: Benoist;576473
Well actually if you have eyes to see I have not been agreeing with Declan entirely (that all people who like 3rd ed are in effect assholes) and rather agreed that there are elements of 3rd ed's design that specifically appeal to assholes. Which has been further discussed, debated... the posts are there for anyone to see, starting by the OP itself.

You'll notice that I specifically debated Declan at the end of the thread about this precise distinction. Again, the posts are on record.

I've been owned by Declan obviously, since I thought there was some sincerity behind the aggressivity and insults, and was proven wrong, but let's not get carried away and go full retard ourselves, alright?


Your objectivity called, it wants to kiss and make up.
"Meh."

Benoist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22049
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1322 on: August 25, 2012, 02:28:34 PM »
I just stepped away from the keyboard, walked in the sun, drew some more, and I just want say OHT was right. Nothing like some fresh air to put things into perspective. Thank you, mate.

MGuy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • M
  • Posts: 949
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1323 on: August 25, 2012, 11:24:42 PM »
Quote from: gleichman;576477
I didn't expect a different reaction. At this point I doubt that there's anything that would cause Benoist to reflect upon himself and the way he treats people.
Seconded.
My signature is not allowed.
Quote from: MGuy
Finally a thread about fighters!

Lord Mistborn
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1324 on: August 26, 2012, 06:21:42 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;576483
Your objectivity called, it wants to kiss and make up.


Wait hold on, Benist has objectivity this is the first I've heard of it.
Quote from: Me;576460
As much as this debacle of a thread has been an embarrassment for me personally (and it has ^_^' ). I salute you mister unintelligible troll guy. You ran as far to the extreme as possible on the anti-3e thing and Benoist still defended you against my criticism. Good job.

Sacrosanct

  • cisgrog
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7224
    • http://www.sacrosanctgames.com
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1325 on: August 26, 2012, 08:10:09 PM »
You should be banned just for having one of those stupid anime avatars.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Lord Mistborn
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1326 on: August 26, 2012, 08:55:20 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;577015
You should be banned just for having one of those stupid anime avatars.


^_^ what can I say I'm a huge weeaboo.

Now if you excuse me I have to write up my latest gaming horror story.
Quote from: Me;576460
As much as this debacle of a thread has been an embarrassment for me personally (and it has ^_^' ). I salute you mister unintelligible troll guy. You ran as far to the extreme as possible on the anti-3e thing and Benoist still defended you against my criticism. Good job.

1989

  • OSR
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 876
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1327 on: August 26, 2012, 09:21:42 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;577015
You should be banned just for having one of those stupid anime avatars.


Seconded.

Panzerkraken

  • Jigab Ohjingeo
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1328 on: August 26, 2012, 09:40:07 PM »
Quote from: Lord Mistborn;577037
^_^ what can I say I'm a huge weeaboo.

Now if you excuse me I have to write up my latest gaming horror story.


Pretty much fits with how I envisioned you.

Si vous n’opposez point aux ordres de croire l’impossible l’intelligence que Dieu a mise dans votre esprit, vous ne devez point opposer aux ordres de malfaire la justice que Dieu a mise dans votre coeur. Une faculté de votre âme étant une fois tyrannisée, toutes les autres facultés doivent l’être également.
-Voltaire

MGuy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • M
  • Posts: 949
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1329 on: August 27, 2012, 12:03:58 AM »
Quote from: Panzerkraken;577048
Pretty much fits with how I envisioned you.



Not the  worst picture I've been shown of a grown hairy man in girl's clothing but I don't think I'll ever get used to it.
My signature is not allowed.
Quote from: MGuy
Finally a thread about fighters!

Panzerkraken

  • Jigab Ohjingeo
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1330 on: August 27, 2012, 12:31:51 AM »
Quote from: MGuy;577078
Not the  worst picture I've been shown of a grown hairy man in girl's clothing but I don't think I'll ever get used to it.


He did say 'huge' :)
Si vous n’opposez point aux ordres de croire l’impossible l’intelligence que Dieu a mise dans votre esprit, vous ne devez point opposer aux ordres de malfaire la justice que Dieu a mise dans votre coeur. Une faculté de votre âme étant une fois tyrannisée, toutes les autres facultés doivent l’être également.
-Voltaire

Benoist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22049
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1331 on: August 27, 2012, 07:59:42 PM »
So I did give a lot more thought about this and considered the 3rd edition rules system and Pathfinder RPG. I went so far as to go back into my collection of titles pertaining to both games, and related d20 games besides. I had a look at supplements like Ghostwalk and Draconomicon. I considered Pathfinder itself, and its Golarion Campaign Setting. Looked at the modules. And the APs.

There's a lot of mechanical fudge in there, no doubt about it, and not all of it is to my liking, to be sure. But there are qualities to these games besides the precision of their rules, whether we are talking about the settings, the modules themselves, the characters and situations developed throughout the APs, and so on. Qualities which objectively speaking a great many fans do care about and play with and buy product for.

The bottom line is this: I was wrong. Jeff was right. It is a problem of people. Not a problem with the game itself. It might not mesh exactly with my needs or inclinations in some areas, but concentrating on these areas to declare that there is something fundamentally wrong with the system and those that like it was wrong.

So I apologize for debating this to the ground, when in truth I should have looked at stuff like Rappan Athuk and the Banewarrens and should have dismissed the charges out of hand.

So here you go. I was wrong. 3rd ed, Pathfinder can be great games. Just don't play with assholes, and don't be a dick. That's it, really.

Lord Mistborn
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1332 on: August 27, 2012, 08:40:35 PM »
Quote from: Benoist;577404
So I did give a lot more thought about this and considered the 3rd edition rules system and Pathfinder RPG. I went so far as to go back into my collection of titles pertaining to both games, and related d20 games besides. I had a look at supplements like Ghostwalk and Draconomicon. I considered Pathfinder itself, and its Golarion Campaign Setting. Looked at the modules. And the APs.

There's a lot of mechanical fudge in there, no doubt about it, and not all of it is to my liking, to be sure. But there are qualities to these games besides the precision of their rules, whether we are talking about the settings, the modules themselves, the characters and situations developed throughout the APs, and so on. Qualities which objectively speaking a great many fans do care about and play with and buy product for.

The bottom line is this: I was wrong. Jeff was right. It is a problem of people. Not a problem with the game itself. It might not mesh exactly with my needs or inclinations in some areas, but concentrating on these areas to declare that there is something fundamentally wrong with the system and those that like it was wrong.

So I apologize for debating this to the ground, when in truth I should have looked at stuff like Rappan Athuk and the Banewarrens and should have dismissed the charges out of hand.

So here you go. I was wrong. 3rd ed, Pathfinder can be great games. Just don't play with assholes, and don't be a dick. That's it, really.


Nice to see you've seen reason. As for the people I don't think alot of people are trusting enough to play the "winging it" style that people on this site advocate. I'm not just passing judgement on you guys, I don't trust myself to be fair if I'm not operating off a fair ruleset. My prefered way of dealing with rules arguments at the table is rock-paper-sicosors rather that arbitration.

What in the end keep me coming back to 3.5 is not the power builds but the limtless options. I feel even after almost a decade of playing 3e that there is still more I can do with the system. That's what has kept minmaxers still playing the game. Every minmaxer knows how rock the table with a Druid, what we generally want to do is make a character that fun, that brings something new and interesting to the table while still keeping up with the monsters.
Quote from: Me;576460
As much as this debacle of a thread has been an embarrassment for me personally (and it has ^_^' ). I salute you mister unintelligible troll guy. You ran as far to the extreme as possible on the anti-3e thing and Benoist still defended you against my criticism. Good job.

Teazia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • T
  • Posts: 594
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1333 on: August 28, 2012, 03:28:50 AM »
Wow, Ben capitulating.  Very well done.
Miniature Mashup with the Fungeon Master  (Not me, but great nonetheless)

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18318
"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"
« Reply #1334 on: August 28, 2012, 03:41:23 AM »
Quote from: Benoist;577404
The bottom line is this: I was wrong. Jeff was right.


I've told Benoist that he is trying to give me a heart attack.


Quote from: Benoist;577404
It is a problem of people. Not a problem with the game itself. It might not mesh exactly with my needs or inclinations in some areas, but concentrating on these areas to declare that there is something fundamentally wrong with the system and those that like it was wrong.

So I apologize for debating this to the ground, when in truth I should have looked at stuff like Rappan Athuk and the Banewarrens and should have dismissed the charges out of hand.

So here you go. I was wrong. 3rd ed, Pathfinder can be great games. Just don't play with assholes, and don't be a dick. That's it, really.


I'm not trying to rub it in, but the above bears repeating because it can be applied to a huge number of games out there.

Quote from: Benoist;577404
Just don't play with assholes, and don't be a dick. That's it, really.


Seriously, 99% of the problems that we endlessly discuss here on these forums do come down to social ones about people - not the game itself as much. Do you trust the Gamemaster to not use his GMPC to overtake the game? Do you trust your Players to not twink out their character if you allow them to use some splatbooks? You get the idea.
"Meh."