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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: ForgottenF on August 05, 2022, 10:11:17 PM

Title: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: ForgottenF on August 05, 2022, 10:11:17 PM
I'm considering starting up a new table game, and am looking for system recommendations. I'm only agreeing to do it if I can go OSR, but most of the players who are going to be in it have only played 3.5 or 5e DND before. I don't want to culture shock them too hard, so I'm looking for a game which will have a 3.x feel, but with OSR simplicity. Chief criteria are:

-AD&D-esque race and class options
-Ascending AC
-Hard-copy books available, and not too expensive (this is going to be a home game, and I don't like laptops at the table)

So Dungeon Crawl Classics is out because of not having enough class options, and Low Fantasy Gaming is out because the printed book is too expensive. My top contenders are Castles & Crusades and Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, but I wanted to ask if anyone knew of other options I should check out?

Thanks.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Almost_Useless on August 05, 2022, 10:15:44 PM
Castles & Crusades was the first one that came to mind.  It seems like it would check all your boxes.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Jam The MF on August 05, 2022, 10:47:07 PM
I first thought of Castles & Crusades, while reading your opening post.  Then, I thought there have to be some spin off games that were heavily flavored by 3E / 3.5E?  I don't know that 3E clones are considered OSR by purists, but the 3E framework was spun into all kinds of games.

How about the Basic Fantasy RPG?  The Core rules are available super cheap in paperback, and still cheap in hardback.  Ascending AC.  OSR.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Svenhelgrim on August 06, 2022, 12:00:30 AM
Consider Old School Essentials: Advanced Fantasy.  Has all the races and classes from AD&D, except the monk. Has the option of ascending armor class and base attack bonus.  They are on the stats for every monster.  Easy to modify if you want to add shit like feats.  Based on Moldvay/Cook B/X D&D so easy rules. 

Spells are simple affairs, mostly one paragraph descriptions…mostly. But you can import spells from AD&D and give them to the players as treasure, scrolls or a captured spellbook. Or not, if you want to keep things simple.

All the monsters from old D&D are compatible, so if you have old monster manuals, fiend folio, creature crucible, or any of the OSR monster books you can plug and play.

All the numbers like Attack bonuses, Armor classes, plusses on magic weapons, and player character hit points, are kept to a minimum (Fighters, barbarians, paladins and rangers get d8, clerics and druids, d6, theives, assassins, magic users, and illusionists:d4) and they stop rolling at level 9, and just get a flat number (+1, or +2) each level after that. 

Only 14 class levels, so make each level count!

Hardcover books are $40. For Player’s Tome, $40 Referee’s Tome and when you buy the book, the .pdf’s come with it. If you buy .pdr’s only they are $15 per book.

Frankly if you have old D&D books you only need the Player’s Tome for classes and spells. I only bought the Ref’s Tome to support the product, and because I am a hopeless collector of game books.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: ForgottenF on August 06, 2022, 12:43:13 AM
How about the Basic Fantasy RPG?  The Core rules are available super cheap in paperback, and still cheap in hardback.  Ascending AC.  OSR.

I think Basic Fantasy would be too basic for these players. In the past I've always found that the 4 class limitation is a hard sell for people that are used to new school gaming. Thanks, though!
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: ForgottenF on August 06, 2022, 01:02:51 AM
Consider Old School Essentials: Advanced Fantasy.  Has all the races and classes from AD&D, except the monk. Has the option of ascending armor class and base attack bonus.  They are on the stats for every monster.  Easy to modify if you want to add shit like feats.  Based on Moldvay/Cook B/X D&D so easy rules. 

Spells are simple affairs, mostly one paragraph descriptions…mostly. But you can import spells from AD&D and give them to the players as treasure, scrolls or a captured spellbook. Or not, if you want to keep things simple.

All the monsters from old D&D are compatible, so if you have old monster manuals, fiend folio, creature crucible, or any of the OSR monster books you can plug and play.

All the numbers like Attack bonuses, Armor classes, plusses on magic weapons, and player character hit points, are kept to a minimum (Fighters, barbarians, paladins and rangers get d8, clerics and druids, d6, theives, assassins, magic users, and illusionists:d4) and they stop rolling at level 9, and just get a flat number (+1, or +2) each level after that. 

Only 14 class levels, so make each level count!

Hardcover books are $40. For Player’s Tome, $40 Referee’s Tome and when you buy the book, the .pdf’s come with it. If you buy .pdr’s only they are $15 per book.

Frankly if you have old D&D books you only need the Player’s Tome for classes and spells. I only bought the Ref’s Tome to support the product, and because I am a hopeless collector of game books.

That sounds like being a possibility. Thanks, I'll give it a look over.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Krugus on August 06, 2022, 01:52:47 AM
Consider Old School Essentials: Advanced Fantasy.  Has all the races and classes from AD&D, except the monk. Has the option of ascending armor class and base attack bonus.  They are on the stats for every monster.  Easy to modify if you want to add shit like feats.  Based on Moldvay/Cook B/X D&D so easy rules. 

Spells are simple affairs, mostly one paragraph descriptions…mostly. But you can import spells from AD&D and give them to the players as treasure, scrolls or a captured spellbook. Or not, if you want to keep things simple.

All the monsters from old D&D are compatible, so if you have old monster manuals, fiend folio, creature crucible, or any of the OSR monster books you can plug and play.

All the numbers like Attack bonuses, Armor classes, plusses on magic weapons, and player character hit points, are kept to a minimum (Fighters, barbarians, paladins and rangers get d8, clerics and druids, d6, theives, assassins, magic users, and illusionists:d4) and they stop rolling at level 9, and just get a flat number (+1, or +2) each level after that. 

Only 14 class levels, so make each level count!

Hardcover books are $40. For Player’s Tome, $40 Referee’s Tome and when you buy the book, the .pdf’s come with it. If you buy .pdr’s only they are $15 per book.

Frankly if you have old D&D books you only need the Player’s Tome for classes and spells. I only bought the Ref’s Tome to support the product, and because I am a hopeless collector of game books.

I have to second Old School Essentials.   I'm moving my homebrew world over to use the OSE as its background engine.  Its easy to customize your own races & classes (or Race as class).   Counting the default races & classes in the book I'll have 14 races and 22 classes ready to go for when we make the jump.   Just finishing up on my magic system overhaul and then I'll need to find a way to TPK the players in the current campaign :P

Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Plotinus on August 06, 2022, 04:06:09 AM
Worlds Without Number is worth considering, though I am not sure it checks all your boxes.


On the other hand:

Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: S'mon on August 06, 2022, 05:39:58 AM
Sounds exactly like C&C. You may want to house rule Primes - https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/castles-crusades-is-it-actually-good/msg1225221/#msg1225221
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Eric Diaz on August 06, 2022, 11:48:15 AM
I'm considering starting up a new table game, and am looking for system recommendations. I'm only agreeing to do it if I can go OSR, but most of the players who are going to be in it have only played 3.5 or 5e DND before. I don't want to culture shock them too hard, so I'm looking for a game which will have a 3.x feel, but with OSR simplicity. Chief criteria are:

-AD&D-esque race and class options
-Ascending AC
-Hard-copy books available, and not too expensive (this is going to be a home game, and I don't like laptops at the table)

So Dungeon Crawl Classics is out because of not having enough class options, and Low Fantasy Gaming is out because the printed book is too expensive. My top contenders are Castles & Crusades and Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, but I wanted to ask if anyone knew of other options I should check out?

Thanks.

LFG is not expensive on Lulu, IIRC. It is the "deluxe" version that is expensive. It is a good game.

Fantastic Heroes & Witchery is also very cool.

Another one that comes to mind is Blood & Treasure 2nd Edition, which is apparently on Lulu too for 25 bucks. Awesome game, very complete, lots of classes and options.

https://www.lulu.com/shop/john-stater/blood-treasure-second-edition-rulebook/hardcover/product-22841885.html?page=1&pageSize=4

If you go with a B/X clone (OSE, LL) I'm currently writing a 30ish page book of feats (about 70) and archetypes to give modern-D&D style options for players. PDF only, unfortunately, but should be easy to print or just writing down the feats you use on the character sheet. Publishing it on DTRPG hopefully within this month.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: finarvyn on August 06, 2022, 11:50:00 AM
I first thought of Castles & Crusades, while reading your opening post.
Yeah, i like your initial thought and agree that Castles & Crusades would be a good bet. C&C is sort of "3E meets AD&D" and provides a lot of old school feel but built on the 3E SRD chassis. The older printings are fairly cheap and feature B&W artwork, if that's your thing. The newest printings are more zippy in appearance with color artwork. The rules are essentially the same no matter which printing, so players could pick and choose their favorite cover or style or whatever. If you go with C&C you can get by with the Player's Handbook and Monsters & Treasure and you really don't need the CK Guide much (we played for years before the CKG even came out!) if that helps. Also, C&C has a lot of adventures written for it, or you can do AD&D stuff with minimal effort. (Mostly converting the ascending-descending AC thing. I play most of the monsters from the Monster Manual straight without any conversions.)
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: weirdguy564 on August 06, 2022, 12:43:22 PM
How about a game like D&D, but is sci fi.  Specifically Star Wars. 

Star Adventurer. 

It’s also pretty cheap.  A PDF is just $4, and the paper book is $9.   

It is classic D&D rules with six stats and ascending armor class.  However, “spells” are now done with Difficulty Checks, and most powers are stuff from Star Wars like telekinesis, or mind reading.  Fail the check and you lose that power for a few hours.  There are no slots.  Just use it until you lose it. 

Leveling up is also unusual.  Instead of a fixed level chart where you get X at level-2, and Y at level-3, this game uses a random table.  We all could be the exact same class, but I get hit points  for level 5, and you get a skill increase, and our friend gets 2 actions per round. 

Beyond that it is a pretty normal D&D game that’s covers Star Wars. 

The main downside is the lack of any GM material.  Nothing is explained, not even what the six ability score acronyms like DEX and CHA.  There are no pre generated baddies or critters.   I’ve even run into a few things myself, and I like to think I know what I’m doing.  I didn’t know you roll those random tables for leveling up even at character creation, or that the reason that Charisma is used for many savings throws because it represents the closest thing to “luck” that you have, and to also prevent it from being a stat nobody cares about.  I found that out in author interviews.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: RebelSky on August 06, 2022, 01:30:21 PM
For the criteria of a game that has some of the OSR simplicity while having character customization depth of 3.x gaming leads to only a few options, and OSE and Basic Fantasy isn't it.

ACKS and both Worlds/Stars Without Number fit much better this criteria... But the OP also mentioned 5e as familiar ground for the players so if the group wants a different flavor of 5e than there is the new Stargate SG1 rpg (this new SG rpg is all about character customization as the game is classless after level 5), or Ruins of Symbaroum (which is actually brilliant and written to play more old school).

Ruins of Symbaroum does things right with it's adaptation to the 5e engine. It takes it and adapts the 5e chassis to fit the world of Symbaroum instead of the other way around while still being familiar to anyone who knows how 5e plays. You only need the 5e SRD to play it, so you don't even need any of the printed D&D books. It's a lot more lethal than your standard D&D 5e game too.

But the game that could fit best is Forbidden Lands, Free Leagues hexcrawl fantasy game. It is old school in spirit while using the Year Zero engine. For $40 you get a box set with two hardback books and is probably one of the most economical RPGs available right now. It has all the familiar trappings of your OSR gaming with a different system.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: King Tyranno on August 06, 2022, 01:41:27 PM
Pathfinder 1E was basically a 3.5 OSR retroclone from before it was cool. I liked it a lot at the time. Other than that, Worlds Without Number is great and OSRIC might be good for you if you don't mind 1E AD&D.

It's a shame your group don't want DCC. That's another great game I'd recommend otherwise.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: ForgottenF on August 06, 2022, 02:22:10 PM

Another one that comes to mind is Blood & Treasure 2nd Edition, which is apparently on Lulu too for 25 bucks. Awesome game, very complete, lots of classes and options.

https://www.lulu.com/shop/john-stater/blood-treasure-second-edition-rulebook/hardcover/product-22841885.html?page=1&pageSize=4

If you go with a B/X clone (OSE, LL) I'm currently writing a 30ish page book of feats (about 70) and archetypes to give modern-D&D style options for players. PDF only, unfortunately, but should be easy to print or just writing down the feats you use on the character sheet. Publishing it on DTRPG hopefully within this month.

I think the players I have in mind will probably respond better to the AD&D feel than they will to the B/X one, but Blood and Treasure looks very much like the kind of thing I was aiming for. I wouldn't mind a more involved skill system, but I could always patch in the progression tables from AS+SH. Thanks, I'll put it in the "examine more closely" basket. Thanks for that recommendation. I had never heard of it.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: ForgottenF on August 06, 2022, 02:23:41 PM
Pathfinder 1E was basically a 3.5 OSR retroclone from before it was cool. I liked it a lot at the time. Other than that, Worlds Without Number is great and OSRIC might be good for you if you don't mind 1E AD&D.

It's a shame your group don't want DCC. That's another great game I'd recommend otherwise.

I think Pathfinder 1e is a great game, but it's a little too crunchy for what I want to run at the moment. Honestly, that's the reason I don't just run 3.5 for them.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Dracones on August 06, 2022, 02:55:04 PM
You might also want to take a look at Hyperborea. It basically took AD&D and threw it into a pulp Conan + sci-fi mashup.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: SHARK on August 06, 2022, 03:06:02 PM
Greetings!

I like Hyperborea!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: weirdguy564 on August 06, 2022, 03:33:32 PM
Here is one that Eric Diaz mentioned, as it has a few unique features. 

Fantastic Heroes and Witcherey

1.  Unusual races like lizard men, and even humans from modern Earth teleported to Fantasy Land to figure out how to survive.

2.  10 classes from fantasy like Ranger and Paladin, and crazier ones like Necronimus, and Wild Brute.  There are even racial class variations like dwarves Clan-Dwarf and Gothi, or Eldritch-Archer and Fae-Mage for elves. 

There isn’t any Bestiary, but it does have lots of info for NPC villains of all types.  Also, there is an entire chapter for creating religions and gods. 

Scattered through the book are even more classes.  The religion chapter includes several religion based classes like Witch Hunter and Crusader.  Same for the magic chapter, giving eight sub-variants for a mage schools like Necromancy and Abjurer. 


Overall it’s a pretty standard D&D clone.  The biggest thing about the game are classes.  And that the game is full of content in just the main book with a page count of 450+.

Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: PencilBoy99 on August 06, 2022, 03:47:06 PM
I don't think FH&W has a bestiary
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: SHARK on August 06, 2022, 04:25:52 PM
Greetings!

Who does Fantastic Heroes and Witchery? I have heard consistently good things about that game.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: PencilBoy99 on August 06, 2022, 04:27:04 PM
Domique Crouset made it and then never made anything else
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: weirdguy564 on August 06, 2022, 04:47:11 PM
I don't think FH&W has a bestiary

And you’re right.  It has a chapter called “Monsters and NPC’s”, but it has no monsters at all.  It does go into depth with those NPC’s, though. 

Silly me think a chapter with the word monster in it would actually have monsters.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: ForgottenF on August 06, 2022, 05:00:32 PM
I don't think FH&W has a bestiary

And you’re right.  It has a chapter called “Monsters and NPC’s”, but it has no monsters at all.  It does go into depth with those NPC’s, though. 

Silly me think a chapter with the word monster in it would actually have monsters.

According to reviews I saw, it just says to go get the osric bestiary
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Eric Diaz on August 06, 2022, 10:40:38 PM

Another one that comes to mind is Blood & Treasure 2nd Edition, which is apparently on Lulu too for 25 bucks. Awesome game, very complete, lots of classes and options.

https://www.lulu.com/shop/john-stater/blood-treasure-second-edition-rulebook/hardcover/product-22841885.html?page=1&pageSize=4

If you go with a B/X clone (OSE, LL) I'm currently writing a 30ish page book of feats (about 70) and archetypes to give modern-D&D style options for players. PDF only, unfortunately, but should be easy to print or just writing down the feats you use on the character sheet. Publishing it on DTRPG hopefully within this month.

I think the players I have in mind will probably respond better to the AD&D feel than they will to the B/X one, but Blood and Treasure looks very much like the kind of thing I was aiming for. I wouldn't mind a more involved skill system, but I could always patch in the progression tables from AS+SH. Thanks, I'll put it in the "examine more closely" basket. Thanks for that recommendation. I had never heard of it.

My pleasure, if you end up running it let us know hoe it goes. I never actually used it, just noticed that the author has a similar vision to mine when it comes to OS games (i.e., relatively simple rules with lots of options).
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Slipshot762 on August 07, 2022, 12:09:39 AM
faserip marvel should not be discounted and i think it qualifies as osr maybe, was a tsr product during it's print anyway. I use openD6 which is not osr unless you restrict your criteria to a sort of spirit, theme, aesthetic, play-structure etc...I use it for everything and I always suggest it wherever I can and in some places I can't. Heh.

I am presently in conjunction with higher minds from other dimensions working on a sort of theorycraft merger of faserip and d6, which itself interrupts the existing project of an arthurian version of d6 more closely styled after pendragon than d&d...(did you know there is a sort of wonderful mathematical pairing or matching between d6 and pendragon? it's in there...i suck at math but could feel it as i compared things...turns out greg stafford is one of the 3 creators of original ghostbusters d6...pleasant surprise.)

yet the fruits of that will be useful in the other, such as any mass combat stuff. But i digress, which is a word that somehow paints a brief flashing picture in my mind of a dying in a dress while eating gruel...i'm seeing sounds and syllables it would seem.

Now that i got my rambling done, i reiterate, marvel faserip as a system might count as osr and is a damn fine system in it's own right. not just for super heroes but seriously run dark sun or forgotten realms with it and watch how much faster better and more like comics or novels or whatever your character seems to perform...part of that is you don't have the same progression of character growth in terms of power level, you can sort of start pretty powerful and crawl a step or two forward from there.

but it does solve that rarely articulated itch that has killed many a players will to play; which is something like "why are the characters in realms novels so much cooler than our games" or something along those lines. A sort of whiney tired sigh and glance at a long climb to even get to where the person would like to start.

Anyhow was working on the arthur thing, stumbled upon the world of 6mm tabletop stuff, paused in the making of mass combat portion to try making different 6mm terrain pieces and consider options, while waiting on paint to dry looked ahead to "after we do the fantasy campaign and before we do star wars/ star trek, what should we do with d6 adventure?" and i thought marvel super heroes...began working on that was satisfied with it as proof of concept then asked self " hey dumbass, why did you not turn on the fan the paint fumes are melting your brain idiot" but i didn't really have a good answer for that.

so i asked myself hey try faserip on top of d6 with FR or darksun or whatever....so....given that my longest running player is a dragonlance guy i am now considering maybe we could do a dragonlance game that don't suck. really its on him.

he is to answer when i formulate all my questions and thus fill in the dragonlance blanks for me...is there even a damn nation on this map? who the hell is in charge here? do holy order of the stars tower of high sorcery and solamic knights have defined roles and authorities in sorted matters do the balance and check each other is this official or just in practice etc.

but steel coins are dumb not doing steel coins. really stop and think about it. yeah, you gonna make steel first, then wrestle that shit into coins? not with the medieval stamping die method you aint...and acid etching for freaking coins is a bit much, absurd even. steel coins make me mad.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: HMWHC on August 26, 2022, 07:37:17 PM
How about ‘Into the Unknown’by O5R Games.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/13311/O5R-Games

It’s kinda sorta like if B/X and 5E had a baby. Seems well received by those who’ve reviewed it on drivethrurpg as well.

I own it and read it through when I first got the PDF’s a while back and enjoyed what I saw, but I’ve forgotten enough of it it’s time to re-read it. I do recall it certainly had an ‘Old School’ ethos about it.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Palleon on August 26, 2022, 08:06:59 PM
Castles & Crusades for a modern d20 engine.  The PHB PDF is free on the Troll’s direct sales store front.  The more I go back for a deeper dive the more I agree it’s what 3E should have been as a successor to AD&D.

I would not go with the B/X derivatives for this type of group, if they are already making concessions to meet you at a 3.x level.  They require too much hacking for the moderns.

Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: ForgottenF on August 26, 2022, 08:11:06 PM
In the name of disclosure, I should say that since I posted this, two of the four potential players for this game have bailed, so it probably isn't happening now. Not saying that further recommendations wouldn't be welcome, as I might use some of them for a Dying Earth campaign I'm considering running, and other people might be in a similar boat. But I don't want to be deceiving anyone.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Eric Diaz on August 26, 2022, 08:53:09 PM
Well, let me plug my game anyway. ;)

I released Old School Feats a few days ago. Despite getting enough flak because "old school and feats do not mix" and because feats remind people of 3.x, it might be an interesting resource form someone looking for a "3.x Style" OSR Games.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/407233/Old-School-Feats-OSR?src=newest
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2022, 08:55:32 PM
Well, let me plug my game anyway. ;)

I released Old School Feats a few days ago. Despite getting enough flak because "old school and feats do not mix" and because feats remind people of 3.x, it might be an interesting resource form someone looking for a "3.x Style" OSR Games.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/407233/Old-School-Feats-OSR?src=newest

I've seen enough people making feats for OSR games and I think White Star even has offical ones although I could be wrong and those are fan made too.

Thanks, will buy it tomorrow.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Jam The MF on August 26, 2022, 11:01:28 PM
In the name of disclosure, I should say that since I posted this, two of the four potential players for this game have bailed, so it probably isn't happening now. Not saying that further recommendations wouldn't be welcome, as I might use some of them for a Dying Earth campaign I'm considering running, and other people might be in a similar boat. But I don't want to be deceiving anyone.

With a smaller group, you could allow each player to run two characters.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: SirFrog on August 26, 2022, 11:55:50 PM
  • The hardcover book is quite expensive. Though if you buy the offset print version from Kevin Crawford's website, at least you are paying a fortune for a very nice book with a sewn binding, as opposed to Low Fantasy Gaming, where I believe you are paying through the nose for a crappy POD book.

Worlds Without Number has a free version on DriveThru
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Eric Diaz on August 27, 2022, 01:58:03 PM
Well, let me plug my game anyway. ;)

I released Old School Feats a few days ago. Despite getting enough flak because "old school and feats do not mix" and because feats remind people of 3.x, it might be an interesting resource form someone looking for a "3.x Style" OSR Games.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/407233/Old-School-Feats-OSR?src=newest

I've seen enough people making feats for OSR games and I think White Star even has offical ones although I could be wrong and those are fan made too.

Thanks, will buy it tomorrow.

Thanks man! Hope you like it!

And I agree, I'm certainly not the first one to put feats in Old School games... was a little surprised by the controversy, TBH. But the feedback from people who actually read the book has been mostly positive.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2022, 02:14:26 PM
Well, let me plug my game anyway. ;)

I released Old School Feats a few days ago. Despite getting enough flak because "old school and feats do not mix" and because feats remind people of 3.x, it might be an interesting resource form someone looking for a "3.x Style" OSR Games.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/407233/Old-School-Feats-OSR?src=newest

I've seen enough people making feats for OSR games and I think White Star even has offical ones although I could be wrong and those are fan made too.

Thanks, will buy it tomorrow.

Thanks man! Hope you like it!

And I agree, I'm certainly not the first one to put feats in Old School games... was a little surprised by the controversy, TBH. But the feedback from people who actually read the book has been mostly positive.

I'm "working" on several games, I've debated to include or not feats, think I will but as an optional rule in the GM's section.

Anyhow since I'm ditching vancian magic are my games even OSR?
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Eric Diaz on August 27, 2022, 02:26:42 PM
I dunno, we can barely agree on what OSR is... but I think it might be OSR anyway. I ditched Vancian too FWIW!
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2022, 04:05:01 PM
I dunno, we can barely agree on what OSR is... but I think it might be OSR anyway. I ditched Vancian too FWIW!

Besides, IMHO since old the game does include both skills and feats, skills for the thief and feats for everybody disguissed as class abilities.

What it doesn't include are skills/feats the player can choose after chargen. Unless you count multiclassing, if I make my 10th level wizard "train" to become a warrior/mage then I get the skills/feats of that other class.

Unless you count AD&D2e, then you do have skills your character can choose after chargen.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Jaeger on August 29, 2022, 03:47:44 PM
...
Besides, IMHO since the old game does include both skills and feats, skills for the thief and feats for everybody disguissed as class abilities.

What it doesn't include are skills/feats the player can choose after chargen. ...

Unless you count AD&D2e, then you do have skills your character can choose after chargen.

^This^

The Idea of "Feats" / Freeform class abilities is an easy leap to make.

I just think that WotC D&D has put a bad taste in peoples mouth over them due to their initial implementation.

I'm reading the 3.0 rules now, and am seeing how it is in many ways a mess of 90's game design being thrown into a class/level based system. The skill list is to long, the weapons list can be wacky. Too many feats, etc,...

It is far more complex than it needed to be.

3.0 should have been a cross of OSE's Advanced Fantasy base classes + Worlds Without Numbers Skill and "Focus" system. A much simpler game that still does almost everything 3.x players said they want.




Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Eric Diaz on August 29, 2022, 04:07:12 PM
Agree with you both. This is the way!
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 29, 2022, 04:32:57 PM
...
Besides, IMHO since the old game does include both skills and feats, skills for the thief and feats for everybody disguissed as class abilities.

What it doesn't include are skills/feats the player can choose after chargen. ...

Unless you count AD&D2e, then you do have skills your character can choose after chargen.

^This^

The Idea of "Feats" / Freeform class abilities is an easy leap to make.

I just think that WotC D&D has put a bad taste in peoples mouth over them due to their initial implementation.

I'm reading the 3.0 rules now, and am seeing how it is in many ways a mess of 90's game design being thrown into a class/level based system. The skill list is to long, the weapons list can be wacky. Too many feats, etc,...

It is far more complex than it needed to be.

3.0 should have been a cross of OSE's Advanced Fantasy base classes + Worlds Without Numbers Skill and "Focus" system. A much simpler game that still does almost everything 3.x players said they want.

I'm up for collaborating on building it. We could set a server on Guilded or Discord to do that.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: PencilBoy99 on August 29, 2022, 06:45:36 PM
I think Blood and Treasure or Castles and Crusades are both OSR with more 3x stuff added in. They're both cool but C&C has a lot of active support.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Snowman0147 on August 30, 2022, 01:57:52 AM
...
Besides, IMHO since the old game does include both skills and feats, skills for the thief and feats for everybody disguissed as class abilities.

What it doesn't include are skills/feats the player can choose after chargen. ...

Unless you count AD&D2e, then you do have skills your character can choose after chargen.

^This^

The Idea of "Feats" / Freeform class abilities is an easy leap to make.

I just think that WotC D&D has put a bad taste in peoples mouth over them due to their initial implementation.

I'm reading the 3.0 rules now, and am seeing how it is in many ways a mess of 90's game design being thrown into a class/level based system. The skill list is to long, the weapons list can be wacky. Too many feats, etc,...

It is far more complex than it needed to be.

3.0 should have been a cross of OSE's Advanced Fantasy base classes + Worlds Without Numbers Skill and "Focus" system. A much simpler game that still does almost everything 3.x players said they want.

I'm up for collaborating on building it. We could set a server on Guilded or Discord to do that.

Sign me up for that.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: rkhigdon on August 30, 2022, 11:08:36 AM
...
Besides, IMHO since the old game does include both skills and feats, skills for the thief and feats for everybody disguissed as class abilities.

What it doesn't include are skills/feats the player can choose after chargen. ...

Unless you count AD&D2e, then you do have skills your character can choose after chargen.

^This^

The Idea of "Feats" / Freeform class abilities is an easy leap to make.

I just think that WotC D&D has put a bad taste in peoples mouth over them due to their initial implementation.

I'm reading the 3.0 rules now, and am seeing how it is in many ways a mess of 90's game design being thrown into a class/level based system. The skill list is to long, the weapons list can be wacky. Too many feats, etc,...

It is far more complex than it needed to be.

3.0 should have been a cross of OSE's Advanced Fantasy base classes + Worlds Without Numbers Skill and "Focus" system. A much simpler game that still does almost everything 3.x players said they want.

I always wanted to use race, background  and class as basically small lists of feats/abilities that you could choose from as you level.  You could also add special classes or organizations into the mix for players to discover during play.  The key would to keep the options pretty tight and the number of choices limited to avoid overwhelming players (or bolstering min/maxers) and allow for some niche protection.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 30, 2022, 12:26:27 PM
...
Besides, IMHO since the old game does include both skills and feats, skills for the thief and feats for everybody disguissed as class abilities.

What it doesn't include are skills/feats the player can choose after chargen. ...

Unless you count AD&D2e, then you do have skills your character can choose after chargen.

^This^

The Idea of "Feats" / Freeform class abilities is an easy leap to make.

I just think that WotC D&D has put a bad taste in peoples mouth over them due to their initial implementation.

I'm reading the 3.0 rules now, and am seeing how it is in many ways a mess of 90's game design being thrown into a class/level based system. The skill list is to long, the weapons list can be wacky. Too many feats, etc,...

It is far more complex than it needed to be.

3.0 should have been a cross of OSE's Advanced Fantasy base classes + Worlds Without Numbers Skill and "Focus" system. A much simpler game that still does almost everything 3.x players said they want.

OSE isn't OGL, so I think using B/X Advanced instead (100% OGL) is a better choice.
Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: Bones McCoy on September 11, 2022, 06:35:08 PM

OSE isn't OGL, so I think using B/X Advanced instead (100% OGL) is a better choice.


Hello, unless I am very much mistaken I think OSE is OGL. If you go to Necroticgnome.com and scroll all the way to the bottom you will see Links. Under here it lists OSE SRD. Go there and again scroll all the way to the very bottom and in the fine print you will see Open Game License.

Title: Re: "3.x Style" OSR Games?
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 11, 2022, 07:42:58 PM

OSE isn't OGL, so I think using B/X Advanced instead (100% OGL) is a better choice.


Hello, unless I am very much mistaken I think OSE is OGL. If you go to Necroticgnome.com and scroll all the way to the bottom you will see Links. Under here it lists OSE SRD. Go there and again scroll all the way to the very bottom and in the fine print you will see Open Game License.

Only the stuff in their SRD is OGL, not their books, while B/X Advanced is 100% OGL except product identity.