Quote from: Pelgrane;548515I think you can say that I'm fond of maps!

So am I, having used CC2 since it was also released.  In fact, I still have the instruction manuals on my desk because CC3 were digital downloads when I bought them.

But my question is, when are you going to get good modern/sci fi icons?  The ones you have look extremely dated, and I can't use them for any professional product.  Not when people have gotten used to the higher res ones from other places (like Dunjinni--which is a shitty fucking program IMO, but symbols are sweet) or the various cartography sites out there.

Quote from: Benoist;548561That combined to the DCC RPG die chain could become very interesting.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw your post in the DCC thread to Kaz's proposal.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;548562... or the various cartography sites out there.

To be honest I've always found the ProFantasy stuff overpriced for the IMHO poor quality of the maps it produces.  For what their suite of tools costs, one can get real commercial digital art tools and spend some time following the tutorials at //www.cartographersguild.com and produce much better stuff.  I have the artistic talent of a limbless orangutang and with a few evenings of dedicated effort I was knocking out stuff much better than what ProFantasy shows off as its best examples.

Quote from: Benoist;548552I think the bonus should apply to enemies facing the PCs as well, as they find out the weaknesses of the group in live conditions too.

Does it apply to enemies and monsters too in 13th Age? If not, then you're right: that's basically a delayed "I win" button, and it sucks.

Quote from: CRKrueger;548559However, the Escalation Die mechanic isn't  something I would use only for PCs.  I'd use it for both sides, that way  it fulfills it's function as a "combat timer" without being a PC-win  mechanism.

If it applies to both sides, then you have a mini-game of 'always fighting orcs'.  I was under the assumption that 13th Age uses a basic d20 mechanic, in which case both sides having escalating numbers means the results don't really change.  However, the section on the escalation die in Windjammer's playtest report leads me to believe it might be something like a d12 or 2d6...?  In that case, adding the escalation die to combat results would make the scene look like a runaway Cuisinart starting with (approximately) round four and getting worse after that.

Quote from: CRKrueger;548559Actually the way I saw the Escalation Die was people getting tired.  Yes, they are in effect performing better offensively, but that's due to the inability to dodge and block, so it's easier to hit and damage as a result.  Moves you wouldn't try in a million years in the opening round of combat, you can pull off once you know your opponent, and his tiring defense allows the opening.

I can see this applying to the Fighter-types, as they should be better in combat and would be less fatigued and better able to take advantage of their opponents wearing out.  I am not convinced a bonus for them is better than a penalty for their opponents, but it is likely easier to keep track of.  "Orc is attacking Dave's Thief, so it gets a -3 to hit...  no, wait.  That is only when it is attacking Bob's Fighter..."  It's probably a wash, really.

I can't see it applying to the other classes, though.  A Magic-User is essentially just a hair above a 0-level NPC when it comes to fighting, even at higher levels.  If it comes down to personal defence with their dagger or staff, they should be getting tired tout de suite.  Clerics might get some small benefits, and Thieves wouldn't be much better off than Magic-Users.

It is an interesting mechanic, but I don't think simply applying it to combat rolls is very effective on a number of levels.  Perhaps a class feature for Fighters, or maybe everyone gets a +4 going into combat (all out beat-down), but subtract the number showing on the escalation die from that as combat wears on and everyone loses energy.  So by round 6, everyone is rolling at -2, but the Fighter's natural abilities and class skills should keep them in the positives.  Windjammer's suggested changes would also make this a more interesting mechanic overall.

Quote from: daniel_ream;548576To be honest I've always found the ProFantasy stuff overpriced for the IMHO poor quality of the maps it produces.  For what their suite of tools costs, one can get real commercial digital art tools and spend some time following the tutorials at www.cartographersguild.com and produce much better stuff.  I have the artistic talent of a limbless orangutang and with a few evenings of dedicated effort I was knocking out stuff much better than what ProFantasy shows off as its best examples.

Ahem.
The GIMP
Inkscape
Putting it all together in a nice pdf:
Scribus
or even easier,
LibreOffice
and you get a full office suite, which serves quite well as a desktop publishing solution for these kinds of projects.

Much, much less than their tools suite.  Entirely free of cost, in fact.  

Quote from: daniel_ream;548576To be honest I've always found the ProFantasy stuff overpriced for the IMHO poor quality of the maps it produces.

I have pretty much the entire Profantasy line. Version 3 made things a lot more flexible but the main problem for most folks is the CAD paradigm they follow for the user interface. In most Mac and Windows the basic operation for anything is SELECT what you want to work on and then PICK the command  you want. For CAD programs it is PICK the command you want, and then SELECT what you want to do. It's CAD heritage also show up in how it prints and exports maps which is unnecessarily painful.

Which is too bad because Campaign Cartographer has several features for mapemaking beats the hell out of using CorelDRAW (my favorite), Inkscape, and the rest. That is the ability to use sheets in conjunction with the traditional layers. What sheet do in CC3 is apply bitmap effects to the object that are group within a particular sheets. The results are amazing if you look at the Profantasy Gallery and far easier to apply and modify than any other high end vector drawing program I worked with.

http://www.profantasy.com/

Also know that I work with CAD systems on a regular basis so it's CAD heritage doesn't bother me as much as it would most computer users.

One of the other changes that came in with version 3 is the ability to use bitmap symbols. So there are a ton of stuff I can use in Corel and Inkscape. It the main reason I keep up my subscription to their Annuals.

In the end I stick with CorelDRAW because when Version 2 was the main Profantasy version I built up a huge library of symbols and template that I use on a regular basis when drawing in Corel.

Quote from: StormBringer;548585Inkscape

I use CorelDRAW myself, but keep up with Inkscape as a backup. I could use it as my main mapping tool right now. The only thing missing for me is a symbol manager that supports dragging and dropping.

I don't have anything systematic but there are a lot of tips and mini-tutorials using Inkscape on my blog

http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/search/label/mapping

Quote from: StormBringer;548550And if you want the game system to feel like actual combat

If you want it to feel like actual combat, I can confirm its not that.  But then neither is any iteration of a D&D type game.

Quote from: StormBringer;548526Does a boxer hit harder and faster in the last rounds of a match?

Quote from: StormBringer;548526And if this game was called Thai Boxing Age, you would have a point.

I was just offering you an example based on your example fella  The point still stands either way.  You might prefer a bell curve, where things warm up at first, and then reach a peak and start to degrade.

Quote from: StormBringer;548526Giving a +6 to hit and damage after 6 rounds isn't 'escalating the combat', it's escalating the numbers

Thereby escalating the fight to big win.  Plus, some creature powers kick in after a certain number on the die, so its another escalation in shizzle happening.  I never had an escalation die get past +4 during playtest, and even then I got a TPK in one battle - so my AP supports that its a fair mechanic.  Your value may differ.

As I say, if you want "realistic" this game isn't that.  Its a seld-proclaimed love letter to D&D.  Make of that what you will.

Quote from: estar;548589I use CorelDRAW myself, but keep up with Inkscape as a backup. I could use it as my main mapping tool right now. The only thing missing for me is a symbol manager that supports dragging and dropping.

I don't have anything systematic but there are a lot of tips and mini-tutorials using Inkscape on my blog

http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/search/label/mapping

Awesome!  I am bookmarking these as I type.

Quote from: game.monkey;548595Thereby escalating the fight to big win.  Plus, some creature powers kick in after a certain number on the die, so its another escalation in shizzle happening.

Did you really just fucking type 'shizzle' or is there some kind of glitch on the server?

Quote from: daniel_ream;548576To be honest I've always found the ProFantasy stuff overpriced for the IMHO poor quality of the maps it produces.  For what their suite of tools costs, one can get real commercial digital art tools and spend some time following the tutorials at //www.cartographersguild.com and produce much better stuff.  I have the artistic talent of a limbless orangutang and with a few evenings of dedicated effort I was knocking out stuff much better than what ProFantasy shows off as its best examples.

Monsieur orang-outan - how about you post one of your knocked out efforts produced over a few evenings, and I'll post some user-created examples from the last six months, not one of our best in house examples. Perhaps not on this thread, though, eh? By all means kick one off.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;548562So am I, having used CC2 since it was also released.  In fact, I still have the instruction manuals on my desk because CC3 were digital downloads when I bought them.

But my question is, when are you going to get good modern/sci fi icons?  The ones you have look extremely dated, and I can't use them for any professional product.  Not when people have gotten used to the higher res ones from other places (like Dunjinni--which is a shitty fucking program IMO, but symbols are sweet) or the various cartography sites out there.

We've just released SS3 v3 Modern, last month in fact, and Cosmographer has been out a while. You know, I might just start a thread with maps if anyone is interested.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;548368Someone at The Gaming Den dug this up recently. Completely off-topic for this thread, but oh well.

 http://mearls.livejournal.com/80639.html   (23/02/2005)

Mearls wasn't a lead/core designer on 4e, though.  When the original team was in place, he struck me as the most "out there" on the WotC team in terms of opinions on how RPGs work.

Quote from: Peregrin;548622Mearls wasn't a lead/core designer on 4e, though.

But he is on this one...

Quote from: Benoist;548623But he is on this one...

Right.  Which means if anything 5e would be tainted by "Forge ideas", not 4e.

But that doesn't seem to be the case so far.