Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 20, 2024, 02:25:40 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 20, 2024, 01:29:40 PM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on February 20, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
It is probably worth posting the full quote of the section in question as a lot of the discussions only post short snippets. I would be very interested to see how different people interpret it.

We've gotten to the point where I went to google all the talk about 1:1 time just to figure out what exactly we're arguing about.

It does seem that Old Gary was suggesting keeping strict time records, and when the game was not being played, to use 1:1 time to keep things simple. Gary notoriously ran a big group that didn't necessarily all play at the same time together, with a few characters per player to cover play when a character was busy in another adventure.

I'd be surprised to find out that anyone was suggesting 1:1 time during the game session. Though I've been surprised before...

And from the proponents of it here I gather they are also running big groups that don't all play at the same time. I had to work hard to form the group I'm playing with and we're down to only 3 of the original players plus one recent addition.

Haven't been able to find players so I can run a spanish speaking game. In the other campaign I'm a player.

So, where the fuck do people find enough players to run such games?

1970's Lake Geneva?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 20, 2024, 02:25:40 PM
And from the proponents of it here I gather they are also running big groups that don't all play at the same time. I had to work hard to form the group I'm playing with and we're down to only 3 of the original players plus one recent addition.

Haven't been able to find players so I can run a spanish speaking game. In the other campaign I'm a player.

So, where the fuck do people find enough players to run such games?

Run for "friends, family, and co-workers" long enough, it can turn into a small network. A group of 5 that are all individual gamers is great, but it can be kind of fragile to people moving away, losing interest, etc.  When it's Joe + spouse + kid all playing in the same game, it is a different dynamic.  Suddenly, now instead of the player spending time away from their family, they are spending it with their family--and the kid getting some good skills in the mix as well.  I even ran for 3 generations at the same table a few times.  Sure, when that family moves away, you lose a lot.  OTOH, when a major chunk of your group is like that, there's the potential for more players than you can handle. 

To me, the biggest drawback to all that is not how you handle time (or most of the other things that people worry about) but rather that it constrains the kinds of games, not because they can't be done, but but because they won't appeal.  Since I don't mind running in that style, it's not a big deal for me. My games are never edgy or goth or filled with gore or anything else that really pushes the envelope.  So a bright 10-year can play.  An elderly grandmother can play.  It's funny too, because some of the non-standard players that you'd expect to be the most bothered by it are a lot more mature in their handling of things like losing a character or the GM ruling the game and so on. 

No matter who you are or how you run your game, every choice you make constricts your pool of available players.  If you want players, then it becomes important to prioritize what is non-negotiable, what you prefer, and what is only nice to have.  I've dropped an awful long list of nice to have options over the years, and walked away a few times when the pruning got into the higher priority things.   

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 20, 2024, 05:23:16 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 20, 2024, 02:25:40 PM
And from the proponents of it here I gather they are also running big groups that don't all play at the same time. I had to work hard to form the group I'm playing with and we're down to only 3 of the original players plus one recent addition.

Haven't been able to find players so I can run a spanish speaking game. In the other campaign I'm a player.

So, where the fuck do people find enough players to run such games?

Run for "friends, family, and co-workers" long enough, it can turn into a small network. A group of 5 that are all individual gamers is great, but it can be kind of fragile to people moving away, losing interest, etc.  When it's Joe + spouse + kid all playing in the same game, it is a different dynamic.  Suddenly, now instead of the player spending time away from their family, they are spending it with their family--and the kid getting some good skills in the mix as well.  I even ran for 3 generations at the same table a few times.  Sure, when that family moves away, you lose a lot.  OTOH, when a major chunk of your group is like that, there's the potential for more players than you can handle. 

To me, the biggest drawback to all that is not how you handle time (or most of the other things that people worry about) but rather that it constrains the kinds of games, not because they can't be done, but but because they won't appeal.  Since I don't mind running in that style, it's not a big deal for me. My games are never edgy or goth or filled with gore or anything else that really pushes the envelope.  So a bright 10-year can play.  An elderly grandmother can play.  It's funny too, because some of the non-standard players that you'd expect to be the most bothered by it are a lot more mature in their handling of things like losing a character or the GM ruling the game and so on. 

No matter who you are or how you run your game, every choice you make constricts your pool of available players.  If you want players, then it becomes important to prioritize what is non-negotiable, what you prefer, and what is only nice to have.  I've dropped an awful long list of nice to have options over the years, and walked away a few times when the pruning got into the higher priority things.

Love my wife with all my heart but RPGs are MY time, the time/place set aside for me.

My boy is too busy with university.

Nobody in my family is remotely interested in it, and my friends... Lost track of them with moving out, changing jobs, etc. We never shared geeky interests anyway.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 20, 2024, 02:25:40 PM
So, where the fuck do people find enough players to run such games?

The Internet. All my players were recruited off the Internet (or partners/friends of recruits), except the one I procreated, and I met his mother on the '90s Internet. Oh and one old friend from school plays online weekly.

I can go on Roll20 and get players any time I want, even for pretty obscure stuff. IRL takes longer, I built up a stable of good players over the pre-Covid years and many are the wives, husbands and friends of the original recruits. Eg Philippe brought in Jelena, Kimberly brought in Tony, Matt brought in Kermit and Gus.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 20, 2024, 05:23:16 PM
Run for "friends, family, and co-workers" long enough, it can turn into a small network.

Indeed. I play with a my brother-in-law and two nephews, aged 13 and 19. Each of the those three has brought 1-2 other players into the game ... so far. Our weekly table is 6-8 players now, and the bigger it gets the more interest it seems to garner.

Quote from: S'mon on February 20, 2024, 07:01:11 PM
I can go on Roll20 and get players any time I want, even for pretty obscure stuff. .

Would love to read a run-down or video on how that actually works and what to expect.

Quote from: Ruprecht on February 21, 2024, 11:13:46 AM

Quote from: S'mon on February 20, 2024, 07:01:11 PM
I can go on Roll20 and get players any time I want, even for pretty obscure stuff. .

Would love to read a run-down or video on how that actually works and what to expect.

I am not on roll20, but I use discord and Skype for a lot of gaming. Presently I have 2 groups each week and an occasional third Saturday group. It is pretty easy when you open up your table to the world (two of my players are in England, one is in Canada, the rest are mostly local and we used to have a player who lived in China). The hardest part is coordinating schedules when you have players spanning that broadly.

Quote from: Ruprecht on February 21, 2024, 11:13:46 AM

Quote from: S'mon on February 20, 2024, 07:01:11 PM
I can go on Roll20 and get players any time I want, even for pretty obscure stuff. .

Would love to read a run-down or video on how that actually works and what to expect.

Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's a nightmare. Usually there's a lot of early attrition from people who weren't really into it. I was blindsided that two players quit my Cyberpunk game because I rolled their initiatives for them. 

Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2024, 06:29:30 PM
I was blindsided that two players quit my Cyberpunk game because I rolled their initiatives for them. 

Bro if Cyberpunk is anything like Shadowrun I would be grateful to have the DM roll my init. That stuff's loads of bookkeeping.

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on February 20, 2024, 09:49:51 AMTreating it as some kind of holy decree is silly. Saying it has no value at all, also is silly. If it works for you, it works for you, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

Thence why the "1:1 time must be used for everything!" group is trolling.

It had its rare uses. But trying to stick to it like a religion is crackheaded.

While the 1:1 time paradigm is way too rigid for my taste, when you run multiple gaming groups in one region, you surely need some rules to avoid time paradoxes and conflicts.
I've tried to summarize my thoughts on it here.

TLDR, basically, that's the guidelines I try to follow:

Rule 1. First come - first served
The first group active during the particular in-game day establishes the timeline. Others must comply with what has already happened in previous gaming sessions.
As a consequence of this, the second group cannot explore the given locale on the same in-game day or before the first group started exploring it.

Rule 2. Go home when you are done
At the end of the gaming session, the party must return to the civilization or at least to their base camp.
This is important because it allows other groups to explore the same place without risking the encounter with an "offline" group camping there.

Rule 3. Plan last, play first
Before you conclude the session, ask the players what they plan to do during the downtime and where they want to venture next session. The stated downtime plans should then be resolved at the start of the next session, before the adventuring.
Not only this approach will help you to plan for the upcoming game, but it also will give you a reference of how much time the other groups would have in the reserve before catching up to the activities of the current party.
This reserve time should be at least equal to the real-world interval between the sessions (if the planned downtime takes less time or isn't planned at all). E.g. one in-game week for a weekly game, two weeks if the group plays every other week, and so on.

Rule 4. The world moves on
If one group's timeline fell behind others, this group must continue their adventures starting from the in-game date where the other groups ended. The in-game interval between their previous adventure and the time of resumption can be spent on any downtime activities. Alternatively, they could leave the town and travel to another region where no play went on during this in-game time.

I just ran a session yesterday in the game I use 1:1 time in, and wanted to share how I handle it.

First, the date we played was March 7th, which in game corresponds to the 19th of Iatree. After we started playing though, I realized that the weather I had rolled for that day was a severe windstorm. I use a spreadsheet someone made based on an old dragon magazine article to roll up a whole year of weather ahead of time. Since it wasn't at all adventuring weather, we skipped ahead a day to the 20th, which was calm. I described to wind damage and they made a few preparations in town, and left with a farmer that was going to show them the where something interesting had happened previously. It took most of a day for them to reach the farmer's home, and he promised to show them the point of interest the next day, and started repairing the damage from the storm. One of the PCs went hunting to get some extra rations, and I rolled a random encounter. A bad one. He was ambushed by the Dire Boar. The other PCs came running, and by fleeing up trees they were able to hang onto life and eventually ward off the boar, suffering severe injuries all. Being too injured to go on to find what they'd been looking for in the first place, or even risk the potentially dangerous trek home, but having plenty of rations from hunting and the felled boars, they negotiated to stay in the safety of the farmer's cellar in exchange for helping him with the repairs. They rested for 6 days, healing up their injuries (Knave 2e has a not particularly slow healing mechanic), and headed back to town, the only random encounter a distant passing of some deer, making it back before sundown on the 26th of Iatree.

Today, I made the daily update to the game's IC chat, giving the weather for today and noting that their characters left town with the farmer. I've scheduled another message which I'll post next Thursday, which announces their return. If those players want to play a game before then, they'll need to make a new character and use that one. There are some limitations to the format, for example, since the session got started a bit late and the dire boar encounter took a fair while, they wanted to head back into town rather than investigate what they were there for in the first place. And obviously the game is set up around a particular location, so there isn't any long distance travel which would make the 1:1 time more of a bother. But I'm quite enjoying the campaign. the constant pressure of time passing in world along side real time makes me think about how things are changing in world, and especially in reactance to what the PCs are doing. And the daily weather blurbs make the world feel much more real, and the fact the seasons pass in time with real seasons helps that too.

uhhh. So you did not really use 1:1 time? You "skipped ahead" as you pleased?

Quote from: Omega on March 09, 2024, 12:03:35 AM
uhhh. So you did not really use 1:1 time? You "skipped ahead" as you pleased?

I use 1:1 time to manage the passage of time off table. Within a session, PCs can do whatever they want, and can get ahead of realtime. Then time between sessions wil catch back up to the PCs, hence the scheduled announcement of their return to town I'm going to make next week. That is how I use 1:1 time to manage my opentable westmarches.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 09, 2024, 02:27:37 AM

Quote from: Omega on March 09, 2024, 12:03:35 AM
uhhh. So you did not really use 1:1 time? You "skipped ahead" as you pleased?

I use 1:1 time to manage the passage of time off table. Within a session, PCs can do whatever they want, and can get ahead of realtime. Then time between sessions wil catch back up to the PCs, hence the scheduled announcement of their return to town I'm going to make next week. That is how I use 1:1 time to manage my opentable westmarches.

Me too (& Gygax three) 
I like 1:1 time for the reasons you give (the constant pressure of time passing in world along side real time makes me think about how things are changing* in world, and especially in reactance to what the PCs are doing), and use it much the same way. It is for when no play is taking place, as EGG said, not normally for restricting what happens in play - if the players demand a 1 week rest during a session I do reseve the right to say "OK, see you next week". Much more commonly an adventure takes place over 2 weekly sessions, so then we move ahead 2 weeks instead of 1 week.

I do think 1:1 time is a very powerful tool when used correctly. It shouldn't be a religion. 

It's March IRL & I've been prepping a 'Spring Break' adventure for my Cyberpunk game that should take place next month IRL & in-game.