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Author Topic: +1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"  (Read 9205 times)

Spinachcat

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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2020, 08:26:37 PM »
Quote from: Manic Modron;1145565
This is apparently worth a lot of time being varying degrees of upset about because they are doing things wrong.


Before the internet, when the basement dwellers gibbered and masturbated in the corner nobody mistook them for the champions of the new cultural revolution. But now we have the internet where the freakshow has gotten entire companies to jump on command.  

Disabled heroes aren't new. Pirates with peglegs, hooks and one-eye are stereotypical to the point that a pirate with all his bits is almost an oddity. Alien Resurrection had an engineer in a wheelchair (with faster than light travel) back in 1997. Professor X first appeared in his wheelchair in 1963 and the closest Aquaman came to cool was when they replaced his hand with a harpoon.

But D&D Twitter isn't about "letting them play in a fun way". It's more reeking bullshit from the morons who kept screaming "orcs are black people" until WotC took the knee.


Quote from: FelixGamingX1;1145566
One thing that I came to realize is that a large percentage of people that are avid gamers, do so to escape reality.


Humans engage in entertainment for escapism. Guys who wear their team jersey on game day are LARPing just like the girls wearing fairy wings at RenFaire. Escapism is the whole point of any work of fiction.

People don't need to be suffering anything to seek out and enjoy escapism. It's natural to the human condition and I suspect its not confined to humans either. Cats know their tails aren't really prey, but happily throw themselves about "chasing" and "pouncing" on their own tails.

Mistwell

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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2020, 08:31:38 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145580
Heal spells do exist, why would anyone need a wheelchair? It makes exactly zero sense, thought YOU would virtue signal your virtue by finding it inspiring. Good for you.

Because I have NEVER been happy with the default heal rules in 5e D&D. Shit I posted a huge thread on ENWorld about my dislike for those rules during the playtest and emailed the authors 6 years ago about my distaste for them. I don't like you can nearly die and then be perfectly full normal after 8 hours rest. I don't like that the system has no way to account for long term injuries. I don't like the super healing spells and the regeneration spells as they stand. I don't like that the system has no way to deal with being born with a disability. I don't like that the system has no curses or anti-magic attacks or warlock sacrificial pacts or things like that which would create an un-healable injury.

These rules help me formulate houserules to deal with some of the challenges changing the default healing system would entail. You are welcome to not use someone else's houserules in your game. Nobody is going to break into your game and force you to use their house rules.

I am not signalling anything by telling you I like the idea, any more than you are signalling to your posse here that you dislike the idea. Fuck, who here would I be signalling if I were? Believe it or not, I can like something you don't like without agendas being necessary for me to like it. If you are cool with the default healing system for D&D, good for you. I am not. I never was.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 08:34:13 PM by Mistwell »

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2020, 08:38:34 PM »
Lets see if some finally get the objections:

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

hedgehobbit

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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2020, 09:22:15 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1145581
Professor X first appeared in his wheelchair in 1963 and the closest Aquaman came to cool was when they replaced his hand with a harpoon.
Professor X is a good example as his wheelchair was symbolic of his physical weakness which was paired with his powerful mental abilities. You didn't see Professor X rolling around the battlefield punching Magneto in the face. That would have been a joke.

The combat wheelchair doesn't empower disabled people. It just turns them into a sight gag.

But my main issue is that it's an obvious modern device. I'd have the same reaction to a Magic Communication Tablet that looked and worked exactly like a cell phone.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 11:06:14 PM by hedgehobbit »

Ghostmaker

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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2020, 09:27:40 PM »
Quote from: Manic Modron;1145565
A person who is actually in a wheel chair wants to try and make something so they can have a fantasy hero version of themselves to adventure about in and it is all white knights and virtue signals and "not about ttrpg playing at all"  instead of letting them play the game in a way fun for them.

This is apparently worth a lot of time being varying degrees of upset about because they are doing things wrong.

Cool. Show me one player with that sort of mobility issue who wants to PLAY that mobility issue in game.

This is fetish, pure and simple.

DocJones

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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2020, 09:36:21 PM »
I'd allow the combat wheelchair.  OTOH player is likely to attract hordes of rust monsters.

Manic Modron

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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2020, 09:39:05 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1145581
Before the internet, when the basement dwellers gibbered and masturbated in the corner nobody mistook them for the champions of the new cultural revolution. But now we have the internet where the freakshow has gotten entire companies to jump on command.  
...
But D&D Twitter isn't about "letting them play in a fun way". It's more reeking bullshit from the morons who kept screaming "orcs are black people" until WotC took the knee.
This is literally about a disabled girl who made something fun for herself and who put it out on the internet in case anybody else wants to use it for their own games.

Maybe some people in wheelchairs don't want something like this.  Maybe some of them do.  At least one certainly does.  Room for both, is all I'm saying.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145580
Heal spells do exist, why would anyone need a wheelchair?

Because  crippling injuries or congenital defects aren't necessarily covered by getting a bunch of hit points back or getting diseases cured.  Even Regenerate will just grow legs back, might not help if they didn't work before.  Your houserules may vary, but I have never had standard grade D&D healing fix everything under the sun.



But, I've wasted enough time on puzzling over why this is worth the vitriol it is getting.

Manic Modron

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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2020, 09:39:58 PM »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145595
Cool. Show me one player with that sort of mobility issue who wants to PLAY that mobility issue in game.

The one who made it.

Mistwell

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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2020, 09:41:25 PM »
Quote from: Manic Modron;1145598
But, I've wasted enough time on puzzling over why this is worth the vitriol it is getting.

It's apparently a badwrongfun houserule.

Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2020, 09:57:26 PM »
Quote from: Manic Modron;1145598
This is literally about a disabled girl who made something fun for herself and who put it out on the internet in case anybody else wants to use it for their own games.

And ergo its immune to criticism. Its a stupid item. By itself largely innocous, but its a symbol of the times. When any sort of creative practicality or willingness to express ideas beyond what you see in front of yourself is suppressed in favor of being embodied by your disabilities or your POC or SOCJUS virtues. Currently media is being devoured by writers throwing away everything for pandering. This is another such element. If we where not in such times would largely be ignored.

Quote from: Mistwell;1145600
It's apparently a badwrongfun houserule.
Its just an iconic example of a virtue signally one and the type of audience WOTC attempts to attract. These sorts of "housrules" have a way of becoming non-houserules.

Mistwell

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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2020, 10:17:26 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1145605
Its just an iconic example of a virtue signally one and the type of audience WOTC attempts to attract. These sorts of "housrules" have a way of becoming non-houserules.

Right. Badwrongfun houserule. Gotcha. Putting houserules in quotes, like it's a nefarious secret houserule that's really the rules as written posing as a houserule in the future or something. It's wrongthink and WOTC is guilty of a futurecrime. Understood.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 10:28:16 PM by Mistwell »

sureshot

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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2020, 10:21:33 PM »
I would allow a combat wheelchair at my tables except those using them should not expect to find flat even surfaces on ever corner of whatever campaign world I am running in. nor expect or demand that the enemy ignore their disability in game. Orcs will attack the healthy character as easily as they will attack a character in a wheelchair. I will freely allow someone to play a character with a disability. I will not give such a character any special consideration at my table. Non-negotiable or up for any kind of debate. The same way the character with no social skills and low Charisma is not going to be as good as the character with good social skills and decent charisma.

That being said the bullshit about not criticizing something needs to stop. Don't want criticism directed at your work don't put it out on the Internet to see let alone be criticized. Trying to pull an equally larger bullshit guilt trip is a lame and transparent to silence criticism/

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2020, 10:47:54 PM »
Quote from: sureshot;1145612
I would allow a combat wheelchair at my tables except those using them should not expect to find flat even surfaces on ever corner of whatever campaign world I am running in. nor expect or demand that the enemy ignore their disability in game. Orcs will attack the healthy character as easily as they will attack a character in a wheelchair. I will freely allow someone to play a character with a disability. I will not give such a character any special consideration at my table. Non-negotiable or up for any kind of debate. The same way the character with no social skills and low Charisma is not going to be as good as the character with good social skills and decent charisma.

That being said the bullshit about not criticizing something needs to stop. Don't want criticism directed at your work don't put it out on the Internet to see let alone be criticized. Trying to pull an equally larger bullshit guilt trip is a lame and transparent to silence criticism/

But she belongs to {insert "oppressed" group here}!
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

Manic Modron

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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2020, 10:59:23 PM »
I had more of a post about this, again because apparently I haven't wasted enough time thinking about how absolutely baffling it is to get worked up about somebody else's game.

I wasn't sure I got the appeal of an adventurer class wheelchair set up.  I don't think that if I was suddenly stricken with such a condition that I'd want to do anything but play things that can fucking well fly because fuck this chair.  I'd probably want a hover chair if at all possible if there somehow wasn't an option.  

But then, maybe if I was I'd like to spend some time in a version of myself that could do amazing things with the benefit of applied thaumaturgy.  Maybe if I was more athletic I'd scoff at the idea of being carted about by a Tensers Disk instead of moving around under as much of my own power as I could manage.  Maybe I wouldn't want articulated golem legs doing my work for me.  At least, not all the time.

Somebody taking the time and effort to make a Paralympic version of an adventurer is interesting from several angles: aesthetically, mechanically, and also from the viewpoint of somebody I just can't come close to relating to.

If it wasn't for this thread or the other one, I might not have been able to consider it in anything other than a vague "Huh.  Neat, I guess" sort of disinterest.

All the fuming against the very concept being done around here has genuinely helped me have a better view about the whole thing.  It likely won't show up in a game of mine, but in case there is the opportunity, I can now see where the path of it could lead.

Like a zen koan, only with more bile, you have broken me out of a normal stretch of thinking and as such, I suppose I must thank you.

Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2020, 11:01:03 PM »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145611
Right. Badwrongfun houserule.
You know dipshit the reaction is the splash it makes with the WOTC employees not the person themselves.

WOTC is talking about what customers deserve to play its games. WOTC is talking about which parts to cut to get points with a mob. WOTC is shoving Woke into its stuff to appear trendy. WOTC is printing and telling people how they should think and what kind of game is wrong or not. Don't put this bullshit 'Oh whatever did they do?' crap on me.