This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: +1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"  (Read 8948 times)

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46552
    • View Profile
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« on: August 19, 2020, 02:33:34 PM »
The problem with the D&D "Combat Wheelchair" isn't that it's "unrealistic" (at least not in ren-faire fantasy like the Forgotten Realms), it's that it isn't really about ttrpg play at all.



LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2020, 02:38:37 PM »
Agreed. Arguments for realism are a lost cause. I find people just gravitate to 'realism' as a talking point for some reason.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3153
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2020, 02:41:40 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1145531
The problem with the D&D "Combat Wheelchair" isn't that it's "unrealistic" (at least not in ren-faire fantasy like the Forgotten Realms), it's that it isn't really about ttrpg play at all.


Like most things, it's what you make with it rather than the motives of other people for being interested in the topic to begin with.

To me, wheelchairs in D&D is just an opportunity to get creative with a new concept.

It am thinking up spells that spellcasters would research to help a wheelchair get over difficult terrain, or lower it's weight so it can be more easily hoisted up a rope. I am imagining things a combat wheelchair with magic and machinery added to it might be able to do. I am imagining other magical and mundane modifications which could happen for other physical disabilities, like blindness or a missing limb. I am thinking if this kind of stuff can better allow for long-term injury to PCs due to incurable magical damage. I am imagining what kind of magical damage would be incurable such as curses, partial disintegration, disease, anti-magic attacks, etc.. I am considering if birth defects would "heal" only back to what they were originally, making healing spells ineffective for that kind of disability. I am going down all sorts of avenues of creation for this concept which I hadn't before.

You can dwell on the negative, you can fret over the motivations of other people who you will never know and never encounter at a game table. Or, you can focus on the cool stuff you can make with it. I'd rather do the later.

Slipshot762

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • S
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2020, 04:38:57 PM »
does the price of the wheelchair exceed the price for healing magic?

kythri

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2020, 05:02:57 PM »
I demand magic pressure socks, a magic blood glucose reader, and a magic blood pressure cuff.  I demand them in the name of creativity and imagination!

Razor 007

  • Razor 007
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2020, 05:22:16 PM »
Wheelchair of Levitation.

5 charges per day.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Razor 007

  • Razor 007
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2020, 05:22:57 PM »
Quote from: Slipshot762;1145547
does the price of the wheelchair exceed the price for healing magic?

Exactly.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2415
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2020, 06:02:02 PM »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145535
Like most things, it's what you make with it rather than the motives of other people for being interested in the topic to begin with.

To me, wheelchairs in D&D is just an opportunity to get creative with a new concept.

It am thinking up spells that spellcasters would research to help a wheelchair get over difficult terrain, or lower it's weight so it can be more easily hoisted up a rope. I am imagining things a combat wheelchair with magic and machinery added to it might be able to do. I am imagining other magical and mundane modifications which could happen for other physical disabilities, like blindness or a missing limb. I am thinking if this kind of stuff can better allow for long-term injury to PCs due to incurable magical damage. I am imagining what kind of magical damage would be incurable such as curses, partial disintegration, disease, anti-magic attacks, etc.. I am considering if birth defects would "heal" only back to what they were originally, making healing spells ineffective for that kind of disability. I am going down all sorts of avenues of creation for this concept which I hadn't before.

You can dwell on the negative, you can fret over the motivations of other people who you will never know and never encounter at a game table. Or, you can focus on the cool stuff you can make with it. I'd rather do the later.

Including but not limited to Narrow passages that suddenly become less narrow to allow the +1 Combat Wheelchair to pass-thru, cobblestone roads suddenly as smooth as modern paved roads... In short Wheelchair accessible dungeons.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16824
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2020, 06:52:04 PM »
My answer is in another thread here.

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 13852
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2020, 06:58:42 PM »
Many people use "realism" when they mean "verisimilitude".

Realism is true to reality. Verisimilitude is the quality of appearing to be true or real.

AKA, there's no realism in comic books or movies based on comics, but there's verisimilitude in a good comic book movie as you feel the comic book has come to life.

Verisimilitude requires elements in a fiction to make sense within the known confines of that fiction. We know the tropes / traits of dungeons and combat with monsters, and +1 combat wheelchairs of representation can't mix with that without dumping enough magic to eliminate all aspects of the wheelchair.

But this D&D Twitter idiocy has nothing to do with gaming and everything to do with fetishism and virtue signalling. They've run out of white knighting ideas to save those poor non-white gamers, so now they're onto "saving" the disabled.

Next up, morbidly obese PCs can never suffer any penalties. 400lbs humans dodge just a quickly as 180lb humans, and of course, have equal endurance and equal outcomes in any athletic endeavor.

Manic Modron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • M
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2020, 07:05:02 PM »
A person who is actually in a wheel chair wants to try and make something so they can have a fantasy hero version of themselves to adventure about in and it is all white knights and virtue signals and "not about ttrpg playing at all"  instead of letting them play the game in a way fun for them.

This is apparently worth a lot of time being varying degrees of upset about because they are doing things wrong.

FelixGamingX1

  • Master Templar
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
    • https://knightstabletoprpg.com/
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2020, 07:06:19 PM »
I feel that the point isn't necessarily realism but the ability to give those bound by a wheelchair in real life an opportunity to forget real life and enjoy the game. One thing that I came to realize is that a large percentage of people that are avid gamers, do so to escape reality. When I started figuring that out it made me a bid depressed to be honest, because it almost makes you feel guilty of being a "normal" person by society's standards when there's so much suffering out there.
American writer and programmer, since 2016.
https://knightstabletoprpg.com/

Chris24601

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • C
  • Posts: 1312
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2020, 07:55:42 PM »
I'd be more inclined to suggest a custom built saddle and a well-trained donkey as a genuinely realistic way for a cripple to travel.

Make them someone who's profession doesn't depend upon physical prowess like a scribe, scholar, religious or, in fantasy, a wizard and you might even have an interesting character concept. Once you're able to cast a fireball or two into an enemy cavalry charge, few lords who'd employ a house wizard would particularly care that their particular wizard needs to be carried into position on the back of a beast.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3153
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2020, 08:11:03 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145553
Including but not limited to Narrow passages that suddenly become less narrow to allow the +1 Combat Wheelchair to pass-thru, cobblestone roads suddenly as smooth as modern paved roads... In short Wheelchair accessible dungeons.

Of course that would be a barrier. But then, you better not have a large sized monster anywhere on the other side of that narrow passageway. We already have the narrow passage issue with large sized PCs, and large pets/mounts/hirelings/allies. Not sure how this would be meaningfully different. Like the large PC, you're going to need a teleport spell or something else to get the larger PC through, whether it's based on their natural size or the chair or whatever.

As for cobblestone roads, I guess you didn't read what you quoted? It's literally the first sentence of the second paragraph.

Look you don't have to be into the idea. But it's OK that I am. It's inspiring my imagination about a new concept to me with D&D. Shit all over that inspiration if you like, but I think it can be cool stuff. And I don't give a shit about the motives of the people who introduced the idea or your motives for opposing it or the politics of it all or and of that shit when it comes to "I think this is a cool imaginative line of inquiry for my game".
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 08:13:44 PM by Mistwell »

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2415
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2020, 08:25:58 PM »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145575
Of course that would be a barrier. But then, you better not have a large sized monster anywhere on the other side of that narrow passageway. We already have the narrow passage issue with large sized PCs, and large pets/mounts/hirelings/allies. Not sure how this would be meaningfully different. Like the large PC, you're going to need a teleport spell or something else to get the larger PC through, whether it's based on their natural size or the chair or whatever.

As for cobblestone roads, I guess you didn't read what you quoted? It's literally the first sentence of the second paragraph.

Look you don't have to be into the idea. But it's OK that I am. It's inspiring my imagination about a new concept to me with D&D. Shit all over that inspiration if you like, but I think it can be cool stuff. And I don't give a shit about the motives of the people who introduced the idea or your motives for opposing it or the politics of it all or and of that shit when it comes to "I think this is a cool imaginative line of inquiry for my game".

Heal spells do exist, why would anyone need a wheelchair? It makes exactly zero sense, thought YOU would virtue signal your virtue by finding it inspiring. Good for you.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber