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Author Topic: +1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"  (Read 9203 times)

kythri

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« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2020, 09:56:00 AM »
Quote from: Manic Modron;1145599
The one who made it.

Learn a bit about "the one who made it" - "the one who made it" isn't in a wheelchair.  The one who made it is self-diagnosed with such a mild form of Ehlers-Danlos - so mild that it doesn't impact her life in any way, other than giving her the abilithy to virtue signal by appropriating disability, and using it to get sham jobs like "disability consultant" and "sensitivity reader - she's the "disabled" version of Rachel Dolezal.

A wheelchair user did not create this, you twat.  But the creator has no problem attacking wheelchair users who have dared to criticized this nonsense, as "ableist", which goes even further to show you what kind of a trash person they are.

Alderaan Crumbs

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« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2020, 10:17:02 AM »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145595
Cool. Show me one player with that sort of mobility issue who wants to PLAY that mobility issue in game.

This is fetish, pure and simple.


I thought this same thing (only applying it to mental illness) when reading the free teaser for the upcoming supplement We Are All Mad Here, for MCG's Cypher System RPG. It's a fairy tale book to run such games in Cypher. Cool. No problem there.

The included setting is about playing mentally ill people whose conditions empower them and the book has over four pages dedicated to making the game safe for that. It uses all the politically phrasing, to include mentioning that classic fairy tales use ableist language. It has advice on being safe, to include the GM having an out if needed. It has multiple sidebars, one of which has a suicide hotline phone number! It mentions that the book isn't a medical manual and to seek professional help if needed as well as stating that you shouldn't make fun of mental illness...even though that is literally what they are doing making a game centered around playing mentally ill PCs!

The cognitive dissonance is astounding and while I know only a few mentally ill people, none of them enjoy it. Of them, those who game certainly don't see their illness as a superpower nor want it as a focal point of their fun.
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Mistwell

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« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2020, 10:54:38 AM »
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1145666
I'm saying this as a disabled person in real life. So anyone who pounces on me for being insensitive are way off base.

Darrin, to be fair, you're pretty insensitive to tons and tons of stuff. I mean, dude, it's not like you've built up a reputation for years of being a ray of sunshine and rainbows. You being disabled does not, in any way, assure people you will not be insensitive about that topic as well. You're a pretty equal opportunity grouch. :)

Ghostmaker

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« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2020, 11:01:14 AM »
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1145666
I'm saying this as a disabled person in real life. So anyone who pounces on me for being insensitive are way off base.

Adventurers in a fantasy RPG are not physically disabled. Anyone who is physically disabled would be viewed as a liability to the whole adventuring condition. This is why people who lose limbs and such retire from adventuring. Because they aren't able to do it anymore. This is not being cruel to the disabled person. This is being honest about the adventuring condition.

This isn't exclusive to the medieval authentic side of fantasy RPGs. But it exists with all of the others. Medieval fantasy is not kind to the disabled. And it never has been.

So this +1 Wheelchair of whatever is something I find deeply offensive. Anyone in such a contraption are the first target the uncivilized would go after. They would be the first person killed off. Which is horrible. But that is part of the condition. The lame animal is the first to get eaten.

Unfortunate, but true.

Are there exceptions? Well, there's that Vistani werewolf hunter with the fake leg in Curse of Strahd, but we went through WHY she doesn't (and shouldn't) show it off; it's a vulnerability and a down card she can put into play if needed. ('The werewolf grabs her leg in its maw, and then looks confused as there's no blood, just the crunch of wood. It has enough time to look offended before she draws a crossbow loaded with a silver bolt and shoots it in the face.')

Mistwell

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« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2020, 11:06:32 AM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1145668
No, I actually am intellectually honest and think its a bad mindset to be in the first place. Fuck it, Il say its a weak form of thought. Wrongthink in my opinion.

OK, so we agree you're firmly in 1984 mode now. Someone has committed a thoughtcrime.

Quote
Just as much as you judge me for thinking Wrong. Everything has a degree of judging thought and intention. So get off your high horse.

Oh no, simple disagreement is not in fact what's going on here. You're doing more than judging it not your thing and stupid.

"I think the rule is stupid and would not use it as a houserule in my game" is disagreement.

"I think expressing this opinion is dangerous because others might hear that opinion, agree with it, and do more with it leading to the bad opinion growing, and so we must stop the opinion from spreading like a cancer before that happens" is what you're doing.

You'd be fine if someone used this houserule quietly on their own, but their sin was expressing this opinion in the open where others can talk about it and agree with it and tell others about it. You appear to think it's your duty to stop the wrongthink from spreading to others who might like it. That is not simple disagreement.  That's you trying to stop the growth of something which runs contrary to your political orthodoxy. That's political correctness.

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I don't believe in acting based around thought, but I'm sure as shit allowed to judge somebody for their thought process. Which is again what your doing to me.

Of course you are. But you're not just judging it. You're taking the authoritarian politically correct "stop the wrongthink from spreading!" stance. There are tons and tons and tons of houserules out there that people talk about that you disagree with and think are stupid and nonsense. But you don't rant about them like it's an issue of ethics for society. No this is not just judgement. I don't know if you're just not admitting to yourself what this is or just being disingenuous.

It would be nice if you stopped the bullshit "I just disagree with this houserule" nonsense. That is not what you're doing my man. Simple houserule disagreement does not get a half dozen videos and multiple threads and this level of rage and personal attacks against anyone who says they like the houserule. Naw, this is what political correctness looks like. It's just uncomfortable for you to consider the possibility you're engaging in the very thing you've opposed for so many years.

For example, I said I liked the houserule, I explained why, it's based on a very long established issue I have with 5e that this addresses, I expanded on it in different ways some of which have little to do with wheelchairs, etc.. And I got personally attacked for it, it's assumed I like it for bad motives, and it's assumed everything I am saying about it must be a lie and my reasons must be nefarious and secret signalling (though it's completely unclear who here I'd be signalling). THAT is what political correctness looks like - it's not judgement about the houserule, it's judgement of sin for my liking a Dangerous Idea Which Must Be Stopped At All Costs.

And my usual response stands: Fuck your orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 11:15:45 AM by Mistwell »

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2020, 11:11:51 AM »
Quote from: kythri;1145671
Learn a bit about "the one who made it" - "the one who made it" isn't in a wheelchair.  The one who made it is self-diagnosed with such a mild form of Ehlers-Danlos - so mild that it doesn't impact her life in any way, other than giving her the abilithy to virtue signal by appropriating disability, and using it to get sham jobs like "disability consultant" and "sensitivity reader - she's the "disabled" version of Rachel Dolezal.

A wheelchair user did not create this, you twat.  But the creator has no problem attacking wheelchair users who have dared to criticized this nonsense, as "ableist", which goes even further to show you what kind of a trash person they are.

So, it was made by your regular Baizuo pretending to speak for others who didn't elect it and then silencing those others because it knows better. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
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Omega

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« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2020, 01:16:25 PM »
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1145666
I'm saying this as a disabled person in real life. So anyone who pounces on me for being insensitive are way off base.

Adventurers in a fantasy RPG are not physically disabled. Anyone who is physically disabled would be viewed as a liability to the whole adventuring condition. This is why people who lose limbs and such retire from adventuring. Because they aren't able to do it anymore. This is not being cruel to the disabled person. This is being honest about the adventuring condition.

This isn't exclusive to the medieval authentic side of fantasy RPGs. But it exists with all of the others. Medieval fantasy is not kind to the disabled. And it never has been.

So this +1 Wheelchair of whatever is something I find deeply offensive. Anyone in such a contraption are the first target the uncivilized would go after. They would be the first person killed off. Which is horrible. But that is part of the condition. The lame animal is the first to get eaten.

Id say more that normally a disabled person might be a liability. But in a fantasy setting theres times when either being disabled is a rare boon, or this is literally the only person available.

example A: Medusa vs blind person. Siren or Harpy vs deaf person. Rare, but happens.
example B: A groups being formed to investigate some disturbance in the local ruins and the only cleric on hand is wheelchair bound (or some magical conveyance). Either you go in without any healing or you go in knowing you may have to haul this guy as needed to negotiate some hard terrain.

Or finding a workaround could become a quest unto itself. Magical glass or gem eyes to restore sight. Magical limbs to restore movement or combat ability. And so on. Or even just a item pr person able to cast a spell able to restore them.

Ghostmaker

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« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2020, 01:28:06 PM »
If you want to explore this idea THAT badly, I have a solution for you.

Play a Pathfinder oracle. No, seriously. While the benefits help somewhat, some of the curses can be inconvenient as hell.

Brad

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« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2020, 05:36:48 PM »
Oh hey look, stupid ass idea causes even more division. Goal achieved, I guess.

Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2020, 07:13:09 PM »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145687
OK, so we agree you're firmly in 1984 mode now. Someone has committed a thoughtcrime.

Again mr high horse that logic is universally applicable. Including to you. Judging my judgement requires judgement on your end and disaproval of how I think as well.
"If you say something is bad thats like 1984 tyranny! Your like tripple worse then dictators that burned books! Expressing distaste is like triple hitler! If you dislike something that means your obviously gonna infringe on their rights and freedoms!".
Its also the same level as dumb hyperbole that you accuse me of doing as well. Lets just calm down and stop with the accusatory looks.

Im saying that I dislike people wrapping themselves in identification. I think that in part has been instilled by the current culture and I find that an overall unhealthy attitude. It demotes focus on yourself as an individual, and prioritizes your own victimhood and misfortune over proactivity. I don't like this attitude being widespread, and being promoted. And it does indeed make it towards the contents of future books and such.

How is disliking this attitute any more of a 'Thoughtcrime' then me say judging the attitude the creators of the new Star Trek have when they say they just freely discard the previous stuff and focus on what appeals to them more? JJ abrams discarding cannon and just doing lower tier stuff led to more spinoffs focusing on discarding cannon and just doing lower tier stuff. And now we are at a Rick & Morty knockoff.

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And my usual response stands: Fuck your orthodoxy.


A usual response belies an orthadoxy in it of itself dipshit.

Mistwell

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« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2020, 08:55:55 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1145751
Again mr high horse that logic is universally applicable. Including to you. Judging my judgement requires judgement on your end and disaproval of how I think as well.
"If you say something is bad thats like 1984 tyranny! Your like tripple worse then dictators that burned books! Expressing distaste is like triple hitler! If you dislike something that means your obviously gonna infringe on their rights and freedoms!".
Its also the same level as dumb hyperbole that you accuse me of doing as well. Lets just calm down and stop with the accusatory looks.

Im saying that I dislike people wrapping themselves in identification. I think that in part has been instilled by the current culture and I find that an overall unhealthy attitude. It demotes focus on yourself as an individual, and prioritizes your own victimhood and misfortune over proactivity. I don't like this attitude being widespread, and being promoted. And it does indeed make it towards the contents of future books and such.

How is disliking this attitute any more of a 'Thoughtcrime' then me say judging the attitude the creators of the new Star Trek have when they say they just freely discard the previous stuff and focus on what appeals to them more? JJ abrams discarding cannon and just doing lower tier stuff led to more spinoffs focusing on discarding cannon and just doing lower tier stuff. And now we are at a Rick & Morty knockoff.



A usual response belies an orthadoxy in it of itself dipshit.

Are you seriously denying there is a dominant orthodoxy on this forum which is anti-SJW?

Again, all I said was I liked the houserule and it sparked my imagination and helped with an issue I've had with my game. And multiple people jumped on me essentially calling me a liar and a virtue signaler and questioned my motives. I was called names (like you just did, again), and the accusation is this is Dangerous Ideas because WOTC might like it also.

That's not the same as my position at all. Which was simply "I like this and I have no issue if you don't."

Recognize you are, essentially, The Man in this debate. You're representing the orthodoxy of this forum in your position, and making it clear dissent is more than just dissent but must be crushed and demeaned and attacked.

You're making a Political Correctness argument. I am not. I don't care what houserules you like or don't like. You do however care that I dared say I like this one. Are you really not seeing the difference?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 09:00:36 PM by Mistwell »

Mistwell

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« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2020, 12:57:50 AM »
Climbing a wall with a wheelchair:


GeekyBugle

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« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2020, 01:17:02 AM »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145773
Climbing a wall with a wheelchair:


Made of the most modern alloys. You sure this is the hill you want to die on? Since he can't use his feet how the fuck does he use his hands to fend off any attack?

Again, I'm perfectly okay with the stupid idea, but it can't be just like having legs bot don't at the same time.

In a high fantasy setting there's tons of ways of having someone who can't use his legs (without healing him for some reason) be mobile, and all of them are more practical, cool and fun than this stupidity.
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Mistwell

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« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2020, 01:31:33 AM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145776
Made of the most modern alloys. You sure this is the hill you want to die on?

You sure my posting it means what you think it means? It sure isn't some fucking hill I am dying on. Drama much?

 
Quote
Again, I'm perfectly okay with the stupid idea, but it can't be just like having legs bot don't at the same time.

In a high fantasy setting there's tons of ways of having someone who can't use his legs (without healing him for some reason) be mobile, and all of them are more practical, cool and fun than this stupidity.

Again, I can find something cool that you do not find cool. We can have differing tastes without this being some dramatic thoughtcrime snowball to SJW rules volcanic mountain ant hill.

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2020, 01:44:46 AM »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145777
You sure my posting it means what you think it means? It sure isn't some fucking hill I am dying on. Drama much?

 


Again, I can find something cool that you do not find cool. We can have differing tastes without this being some dramatic thoughtcrime snowball to SJW rules volcanic mountain ant hill.

"Thoughtcrime"? Drama much? Me criticizing you isn't accusing you of a thoughtcrime, especially since I'm not making a moral judgement unlike others do of those who find this idea stupid. Or like you are doing to me right the fuck now.

Yes, you have a right to your opinion and your tastes and to express them, just like I have a right to tell you your ideas are stupid.

Now come back and make another moral judgement of my position while saying I'm the one doing it.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber