This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: +1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"  (Read 8434 times)

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2020, 11:13:46 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1145620
You know dipshit the reaction is the splash it makes with the WOTC employees not the person themselves.

Right. Wrongthink leads to futurecrime. It is literally politically incorrect from your point of view, and is a dangerous opinion which might influence people to like that idea and do more with it in the future. Must stop the dangerous idea before it grows. I totally get it.

bat

  • A bottle in front of me..
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2020, 11:20:52 PM »
From what I have seen those running with this idea see themselves as saviours of the day. On Twitter I saw a woman call magical fixes "gross" (why?), I have seen Tenser's Floating Disk dismissed as not meant to carry living beings (you can't homebrew a spell?) and a poll in which you were told to agree that it was useful and if you disagreed to "keep it to yourself because nobody wants to hear you" (tolerance! )
At the end of the day it is your game, use it or don't.  I commented on YouTube with my reply which at least shut up the Facebook thread I saw it in.
Ancient Vaults & Eldritch Secrets

Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

Jag är inte en människa. Det här är bara en dröm, och snart vaknar jag.


Running: Carrion Lands, Würm, Mazes, Judge Dredd.
Playing: Boot Hill

Manic Modron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • M
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2020, 11:32:54 PM »
Quote from: sureshot;1145612
That being said the bullshit about not criticizing something needs to stop. Don't want criticism directed at your work don't put it out on the Internet to see let alone be criticized. Trying to pull an equally larger bullshit guilt trip is a lame and transparent to silence criticism/

This is absolutely true, yes.  Don't say something, especially online, if you aren't at least expecting it to be challenged.

Something created by a person within a certain community isn't immune from criticism, even if they are creating something for that community.  There could be all kinds of things wrong with it.  But some of the accusations leveled against this are based on it somehow being virtue signaling and not having anything to do with real gaming which since it WAS created by somebody who games for like minded gamers, that accusation doesn't seem to hold any water.  For all I can see this girl is actually just putting out things she likes and some of the blowback is based on some sort of idea that she doesn't REALLY like it, it is just for effect.

Other accusations are that it can't work for certain campaign assumptions, which is true, but not universally so.   Lion and Dragon would be a shitty place to try and shove something like this into.  So would settings like Lankmar or Conan or a number of other settings.  But having a setting that allows for dungeoneering as essentially a full impact sport in a world that can create mitigating devices for conditions magic can't yet cure?  Hell, if you have a group for that, wheel-rugby it right up.

You have people who say that they wouldn't want to play that completely ignoring the people grateful for the creation.  People who are demanding that their opinions be given the same value as those they are discarding out of hand.  True, you also have some people who actually ARE just saying "you just don't like disabled people," which also sucks ass because it is assuming a motivation that might not exist.

Sometimes some of you seem to be so worked up about fighting the the worst examples of SJWs imaginable that it doesn't matter who you lash out at on the way.  It might not automatically make you as bad as them, but the phrase about what people who fight monsters have to be careful of comes to mind.

Krugus

  • Knight of the Void
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2020, 11:47:03 PM »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145595
Cool. Show me one player with that sort of mobility issue who wants to PLAY that mobility issue in game.

This is fetish, pure and simple.


So true.  My wife's sister-in-law has lived almost her entire life in a wheel chair and when we play RPG's with her all of her characters ALL OF THEM are built for speed.   She would never play a character that was bound to a wheel chair.  ever.   So those people think otherwise can go fuck themselves.  With a stick.  Covered in barbed wire.  While they are On fire..

Slambo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • S
  • Posts: 129
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2020, 01:19:36 AM »
No ones really.talking about how OP the actual item is. Its much better than having legs. Thats generally the problem with it. Rather than being about playing a disabled character its more like a massive boon. Though i guess eveyone in the party could just ride one. Cause it has no downsides, but it comes with a bunch of buffs.

Also if you read the document it comes from its very obviously a more political statement than anything. It also seems to think that granting an extra attack at level 5 is fine but it grants it to any class, it also lets you get +2 ac...in addition to your sheild or magic armor, grants half cover as well. And grants advantage on spell saves vs. The elemental damage types...it also deals 1d6+1d4+2 damage and gives whatever you attack disadvantage in its attacks. Granted many of these are upgrades, but they're ridiculously cheap for 5e.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 01:32:53 AM by Slambo »

Warder

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2020, 02:56:10 AM »
Just imagine a whole band of wheelchaired heroes charging at orcs during the LOTR movies. Imagine hobbits in those wheelchairs. Just imagine. Only dont do it close to me cause i might get upset. Usually when i drive back home from my work i see a man sitting in the same spot out in the open, he has only one leg. He always looks truly miserable and probably has no money to pay for a prosthetic. Just imagine somebody coming up to him and telling him he could just imagine a combat wheelchair. It would be fun for him they would say. Just imagine his reaction.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 14368
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2020, 03:32:47 AM »
Quote from: Manic Modron;1145565
A person who is actually in a wheel chair wants to try and make something so they can have a fantasy hero version of themselves to adventure about in and it is all white knights and virtue signals and "not about ttrpg playing at all"  instead of letting them play the game in a way fun for them.

This is apparently worth a lot of time being varying degrees of upset about because they are doing things wrong.


I think more the problem was how its represented and the likely why. Alone one or the other might not be so onerous. Together its annoying to one degree or another.

And as a handicapped person I can tell you that Yes. It annoys us too.

Theres a few threads now on how to do this better. And thats the main thing about this fora. We may criticize. But we also point out ways to make things like this work.

Pat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • P
  • Posts: 1730
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2020, 08:06:53 AM »
Quote from: Slipshot762;1145547
does the price of the wheelchair exceed the price for healing magic?

If you don't have magic item shops, who would even know?

sureshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2020, 08:12:52 AM »
Maniac Modron you make a good point. I think and I maybe wrong is that it's not so much the concept of the fantasy wheelchair so much that it's way too strong as an item. At most it should allow character move from point a to point B and that is it. An extra attack a bonus to AC why not just give it perfect flying of 100 Ft at first level. It's wanting to play a character with flaws while then trying to cheat the system without any negatives to those flaws. When called out on trying to cheat the system in their favor get triggered, offended, and call everyone ableist.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1920
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2020, 08:25:50 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1145531
The problem with the D&D "Combat Wheelchair" isn't that it's "unrealistic" (at least not in ren-faire fantasy like the Forgotten Realms), it's that it isn't really about ttrpg play at all.


I was pleasantly suprised with your take on this one, Pundit.  It does seem that it is not about the Wheelchair at all.
Life is Hard; Play Short

Cloyer Bulse

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • C
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2020, 08:49:53 AM »
In a medieval or post-apocalyptic quasi-medieval world there isn't going to be much in the way of paving, most villages will have muddy roads, caves obviously are not paved, and dungeons are likely to be very rough and uneven, not to mention filled with traps, stairs, ladders, cave-ins, etc., so a wheelchair would be completely useless. It's an utterly moronic idea. It's a concept likely made up by urban millennials who have no sense of reality and are completely inept tacticians.

It makes more sense to have a pet ogre haul someone around. Ogres can fight, run, and traverse obstacles. And they are easily replaced.

A key distinction between pre-industrial and modern is the use of man or animal power instead of machines. In fact, with plentiful slave labor, machines are inferior and inefficient.

A cheap, primitive wheelchair can be cobbled together, but it's likely to be a piece of shit. Modern wheelchairs are the product of an industrial society with machines, computers, and factories -- a massive infrastructure which took centuries to build and takes millions of laborers and managers to maintain. Not to mention the massive infrastructure it takes to create and maintain roads and sidewalks. Without regular maintenance, a modern city would literally disintegrate in a few short years and be consumed by nature.

LiferGamer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • babbling idiot
    • View Profile
    • Delcars Dungeon
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2020, 09:21:28 AM »
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4777[/ATTACH]
Your Forgotten Realms was my first The Last Jedi.

If the party is gonna die, they want to be riding and blasting/hacking away at a separate one of Tiamat's heads as she plummets towards earth with broken wings while Solars and Planars sing.

RandyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • R
  • Posts: 850
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2020, 09:25:52 AM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145618
But she belongs to {insert "oppressed" group here}!

She, full stop - assuming her gender, that is. It's an attention grab, both at and away from the gaming table, putting herself and her physical condition front and center.

Darrin Kelley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • D
  • Posts: 930
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2020, 09:27:27 AM »
I'm saying this as a disabled person in real life. So anyone who pounces on me for being insensitive are way off base.

Adventurers in a fantasy RPG are not physically disabled. Anyone who is physically disabled would be viewed as a liability to the whole adventuring condition. This is why people who lose limbs and such retire from adventuring. Because they aren't able to do it anymore. This is not being cruel to the disabled person. This is being honest about the adventuring condition.

This isn't exclusive to the medieval authentic side of fantasy RPGs. But it exists with all of the others. Medieval fantasy is not kind to the disabled. And it never has been.

So this +1 Wheelchair of whatever is something I find deeply offensive. Anyone in such a contraption are the first target the uncivilized would go after. They would be the first person killed off. Which is horrible. But that is part of the condition. The lame animal is the first to get eaten.
 

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 899
    • View Profile
+1 Combat Wheelchair of "Representation"
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2020, 09:31:36 AM »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145623
Right. Wrongthink leads to futurecrime. It is literally politically incorrect from your point of view, and is a dangerous opinion which might influence people to like that idea and do more with it in the future. Must stop the dangerous idea before it grows. I totally get it.
No, I actually am intellectually honest and think its a bad mindset to be in the first place. Fuck it, Il say its a weak form of thought. Wrongthink in my opinion.
Just as much as you judge me for thinking Wrong. Everything has a degree of judging thought and intention. So get off your high horse.

I don't believe in acting based around thought, but I'm sure as shit allowed to judge somebody for their thought process. Which is again what your doing to me.