What a clusterfuck.
A console that pretty much requires always on connectivity.
You can't play borrowed used or rented games at all (unless you pay - ie buy the rights to the product through the console at full price).
Kinect comes with it and is required, which means if it breaks down your entire console is fucked.
You can watch tv on it.
Gates has been working towards the Shadowrun trid (your one stop device for all home electronics) for decades. Unfortunately, consoles are always going to be shit, because they're years behind normal PCs in hardware. The console might win, but it won't be through the free market deciding, it will be through Microsoft, Apple, Google, Sony etc strongarming the public by having no choice.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657134You can't play borrowed used or rented games at all (unless you pay - ie buy the rights to the product through the console at full price).
Isn't that pretty much the Steam model?
Quote from: flyerfan1991;657160Isn't that pretty much the Steam model?
I've no idea, but it's the death knell for this console before it's even been released. The stupidest idea ever, I can't lend a game to a friend! Get to fuck Gates you greasy cunt.
All in the name of War on dr- Piracy, of course.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;657160Isn't that pretty much the Steam model?
it depends whether it tied to an account or only to the console. With Steam and you get a new PC, you can re download your games.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657134You can't play borrowed used or rented games at all (unless you pay - ie buy the rights to the product through the console at full price).
Eventually this will be cracked.
More generally, pretty much just about every second DRM system has been completely hacked. Even if it takes more than a decade to succeed. (Some happened very quickly, like how fast the dvd and hd-dvd/bluray encryption systems were cracked).
None of the upcoming consoles look particularly attractive.
So far no dealbreakers.
Anybody else here who may considering the possibility of sitting out on this generation of upcoming consoles?
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657177I've no idea, but it's the death knell for this console before it's even been released. The stupidest idea ever, I can't lend a game to a friend! Get to fuck Gates you greasy cunt.
Well, when I bought Skyrim for the PC from a big box store, imagine my surprise when I put in the DVD and discovered that all it did was install Steam and download Skyrim onto my PC.
I've a feeling that this is the direction that most game companies are going, because they're greedy. They saw the model with Amazon's Kindle and said, "Hey, we can get that to work for us!"
They want to completely destroy the "first sale doctrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine)".
Quote from: ggroy;657194They want to completely destroy the "first sale doctrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine)".
The most bizarre thing is customer's support for this sort of thing. You can resell a book freely as you desire, and while it may be tarnished around the edges, the contents are still there, and that's what matters to most readers.
Steam works because, eventually, the prices come down to everyone's price level. Think a game is worth full price? Buy it at launch. Think it's worth less, fine, eventually that price will change. If you're interested in anything outside the AAA market, the developer will likely also sell it DRM-free somewhere.
The AAA market tends towards overpriced rubbish, but then again, that's what people have been buying, so that's what gets developed. The budgets are unsustainable and have been rising for years, hence the DLC pushes and restrictions on resale, because the market hasn't increased quickly enough to cover the budgets. When it collapses - and it will - it'll be the gamers who refused to look past the big-bidget titles that will truly be to blame.
I wouldn't buy a PS4 or an Xbone. Wii U, maaaaybe, I like Mario games, but I'm quite happy gaming on my PC, iDevices and 3DS.
Quote from: Rincewind1;657195The most bizarre thing is customer's support for this sort of thing. You can resell a book freely as you desire, and while it may be tarnished around the edges, the contents are still there, and that's what matters to most readers.
Which is the interesting thing; why should second-hand games cost any less? The data's the same. Maybe there's a tattier-looking booklet in the box, but who cares about that - you're paying for what's on the disc.
The majority of the market, though, just don't care.
Quote from: Ladybird;657202Steam works because, eventually, the prices come down to everyone's price level. Think a game is worth full price? Buy it at launch. Think it's worth less, fine, eventually that price will change. If you're interested in anything outside the AAA market, the developer will likely also sell it DRM-free somewhere.
The AAA market tends towards overpriced rubbish, but then again, that's what people have been buying, so that's what gets developed. The budgets are unsustainable and have been rising for years, hence the DLC pushes and restrictions on resale, because the market hasn't increased quickly enough to cover the budgets. When it collapses - and it will - it'll be the gamers who refused to look past the big-bidget titles that will truly be to blame.
Sounds very much like the tv/movie business.
From what I saw, and mind you I'm not a die hard gamer - that'd be my wife, I almost got the impression that all you can do with Xbox One is watch television, sports and play Call of Duty... none of which hold any interest for me.
My wife says that if there's not going to be any intertesting exclusives, she'll skip on Xbox One. And coming from her, that says a LOT.
Always on Kinect camera
Always connected to the internet
Auto video conferenceing if anyone calls you
Yep, better put a blanket over Kinect before watching any adult entertainment during alone time....
Quote from: flyerfan1991;657192I've a feeling that this is the direction that most game companies are going, because they're greedy.
Which is why publishers are going bankrupt left, right and center, surely.
I've worked in the video game industry and I'm always amused by how ignorant people are about how the economics of it work.
The big three seem to have all made some mis-steps this generation.
Nintendo with their lack of developer support.
Sony with their half baked non-introduction.
And now Microsoft with all sorts of annoying bullshit.
I really wish we had a new entrant into the market this time around.
Quote from: Piestrio;657247The big three seem to have all made some mis-steps this generation.
Nintendo with their lack of developer support.
Sony with their half baked non-introduction.
And now Microsoft with all sorts of annoying bullshit.
I really wish we had a new entrant into the market this time around.
If gamers been fleeing the PC for the previous generation of consoles, there would be one here already.
Quote from: Piestrio;657247The big three seem to have all made some mis-steps this generation.
I don't think they're missteps; I think the market's fundamentally changed. Console manufacturers are in the same boat that HDTV manufacturers are: everyone who wants one of their products already has one, and what they've got now is good enough. Moore's Law hit a brick wall a while ago which means that you're no longer getting clear visual superiority in games from one generation to the next. Motion control is the console industry's 3DTV: a desperate attempt to get consumers to upgrade that the consumers have by and large passed on. The real money in video gaming has moved to mobile and Facebook minigames, where the ROI is much, much higher.
Quote from: ggroy;657189Anybody else here who may considering the possibility of sitting out on this generation of upcoming consoles?
I actually did this last gen (PS3 and Xbox360), but with the current offerings?
I may be getting a PS3 on the cheap, once PS4 launches.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;657227Always on Kinect camera
Always connected to the internet
Auto video conferenceing if anyone calls you
Yep, better put a blanket over Kinect before watching any adult entertainment during alone time....
"Hey Sacro, just calling to ask to ask about this ruling...OH GOD, OH GOD!!!
(eyes erupt into flame, having seen that not meant to be seen by mere mortal eyes>
"Somebody help me! Gouge them out! GOUGE THEM OUT!!!"
:p
Quote from: flyerfan1991;657250If gamers been fleeing the PC for the previous generation of consoles, there would be one here already.
Only reason I picked up an XBox 360 initially, was to play Grand Theft Auto 4.
Purportedly the pc version of GTA4 was a completely unplayable botch job. (A lot of bad reviews about the technical problems).
If the pc version of GTA4 was a masterpiece, most likely I would have never picked up an Xbox 360.
Quote from: Novastar;657253
"Hey Sacro, just calling to ask to ask about this ruling...OH GOD, OH GOD!!!
(eyes erupt into flame, having seen that not meant to be seen by mere mortal eyes>
"Somebody help me! Gouge them out! GOUGE THEM OUT!!!"
:p
Well, if Microsoft's goal was to turn the Xbox into Chatroulette, congrats.
I guess.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;657227Always on Kinect camera
Always connected to the internet
Auto video conferenceing if anyone calls you
Yep, better put a blanket over Kinect before watching any adult entertainment during alone time....
...that sounds an awful lot like tv sets from 1984, doesn't it?
Quote from: Rincewind1;657262...that sounds an awful lot like tv sets from 1984, doesn't it?
Yeah, part of me is like, "that kind of thinking is just lunatic conspiracy", but then I'm reminded of schools that would automatically turn on and control remotely cameras in laptops that students would use.
Quote from: Piestrio;657247The big three seem to have all made some mis-steps this generation.
Nintendo with their lack of developer support.
Sony with their half baked non-introduction.
And now Microsoft with all sorts of annoying bullshit.
I really wish we had a new entrant into the market this time around.
What, like Apple? Who have been quietly developing the fastest-growing gaming platform of the last five years?
No, if only we could actually persuade people that just because they're coming from an "app store", their games shouldn't automatically be free...
Quote from: Sacrosanct;657227Always on Kinect camera
Always connected to the internet
Auto video conferenceing if anyone calls you
Yep, better put a blanket over Kinect before watching any adult entertainment during alone time....
And apparently, other people have had the same thought...
(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-zBmWNnQ/0/950x10000/i-zBmWNnQ-950x10000.jpg)
Quote from: Sacrosanct;657227Always on Kinect camera
Always connected to the internet
Auto video conferenceing if anyone calls you
Yep, better put a blanket over Kinect before watching any adult entertainment during alone time....
kinect is required for this monstrosity. It is sold with the 1 which means the price will be a ton higher than necessary and if the kinect goes down your entire console is useless.
noone wanted or wants this crappy device.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657401kinect is required for this monstrosity. It is sold with the 1 which means the price will be a ton higher than necessary and if the kinect goes down your entire console is useless.
noone wanted or wants this crappy device.
Oh I don't know, dictating restrictive and mandatory interfaces worked so well for them in Windows 8. :D
At least Windows 8 doesn't require a £100+ peripheral that tracks poorly.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657428At least Windows 8 doesn't require a £100+ peripheral that tracks poorly.
Apparently this new kinect is so much better that it can detect your heartbeat. No shit.
I don't really consider that a plus though.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;657433Apparently this new kinect is so much better that it can detect your heartbeat. No shit.
I don't really consider that a plus though.
Should be a pretty good selling point for all those "fitness games" everyone buys and never plays.
Quote from: Ladybird;657269What, like Apple? Who have been quietly developing the fastest-growing gaming platform of the last five years?
Quite true. And that threat to the traditional home console market is what's driving this new generation.
Nintendo is trying to provide a novel and unique gaming experience.
Microsoft is trying to integrate their box into your living room.
Sony is burying their head in the sand ( ;) )
QuoteNo, if only we could actually persuade people that just because they're coming from an "app store", their games shouldn't automatically be free...
Not wanting to pay for apps is really an android problem. iOS devs can make plenty of money.
Still I'd agree that apps are often underpriced. Lots of app I use are easily worth more than the $1-$3 I paid for them.
Quote from: Piestrio;657436Microsoft is trying to integrate their box into your living room.
by making you pay for XBL so you can watch SKy which you also pay for on your tv where you could already watch Sky without having to pay for XBL as well.
In every respect this is total fail.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657437by making you pay for XBL so you can watch SKy which you also pay for on your tv where you could already watch Sky without having to pay for XBL as well.
In every respect this is total fail.
I did say "trying" :p
Quote from: Piestrio;657436Not wanting to pay for apps is really an android problem. iOS devs can make plenty of money.
Still I'd agree that apps are often underpriced. Lots of app I use are easily worth more than the $1-$3 I paid for them.
You're right, it's not as bad. But apple gaming communities still have plenty of freetards, and it's still looked down on by the "hardcore" gaming communities. But fuck it, I'm getting Warhammer Quest next week, and they aren't.
I've seen 99c referred to as a
premium price point, before now. No, 99c is not "premium". Something has gone deeply wrong when anyone says that. On a price : fun ratio, good iOS gaming has basically no equals (And the bad games don't matter, because you don't buy them).
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657437by making you pay for XBL so you can watch SKy which you also pay for on your tv where you could already watch Sky without having to pay for XBL as well.
In every respect this is total fail.
Yo dawg, I heard you like to pay, so now you can pay me to let you pay me for the privilege of paying someone else.
Quote from: daniel_ream;657251(...) Motion control is the console industry's 3DTV(...)
One I'm possibly even less interested in.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;657401kinect is required for this monstrosity. It is sold with the 1 which means the price will be a ton higher than necessary and if the kinect goes down your entire console is useless.
noone wanted or wants this crappy device.
Maybe that's why they're now forcing it down our throats...
Quote from: Sacrosanct;657433Apparently this new kinect is so much better that it can detect your heartbeat. No shit.
"I'm not interested in Kinect."
"But this new one is even better!"
... WTF
Quote from: ggroy;657256Only reason I picked up an XBox 360 initially, was to play Grand Theft Auto 4.
Purportedly the pc version of GTA4 was a completely unplayable botch job. (A lot of bad reviews about the technical problems).
If the pc version of GTA4 was a masterpiece, most likely I would have never picked up an Xbox 360.
Several PC games were lazy ports from Xbox 360. That meant a PC's true capabilities went unseen because the game was designed for the 360's lower specs.
By the way, people should stop blaming Gates. It's been the Ballmer horror show for quite a while.
Looks like Microsoft is pulling a 180 and removing the "check in every 24 hours" and "can't play used games" crap.
On the one hand, hey that's awesome.
On the other hand you already showed everyone how stupid you were, it's a little hard to put that genie back in the bottle.
Quote from: Piestrio;664138Looks like Microsoft is pulling a 180 and removing the "check in every 24 hours" and "can't play used games" crap.
On the one hand, hey that's awesome.
On the other hand you already showed everyone how stupid you were, it's a little hard to put that genie back in the bottle.
At this point, I think the only way to put the genie back in the bottle would be for public self - whipping by the CEO.
It's one problem fixed. There are more.
Quote from: Piestrio;664138Looks like Microsoft is pulling a 180 and removing the "check in every 24 hours" and "can't play used games" crap.
On the one hand, hey that's awesome.
On the other hand you already showed everyone how stupid you were, it's a little hard to put that genie back in the bottle.
At times like this, I'm often reminded of the old line "be careful what you wish for, because you might get it."
I love it! I hope Ballmer has an ulcer over this. I'm still not buying one, though.
I decided yesterday that from now on, I'm referring to it not as Xbox 1, but as Xbox 180
So many companies are shamelessly trying to pull 1984 on us. It's depressing.
I like Kinect. And the wifey gets some extra motivation for her Zumba by something that keeps score, so I think they're on to something there. It smokes the Wii, interface wise (go find the Alec Baldwin SNL clip...)
As for the horror show that is MS's publicity, can't argue that. Several features they were discussing are the exact sort of thing you don't tell your customers. Publishers, sure. But yeah.
I really like my Steam account. At first I worried about the DRM, but I have since replaced my PC - three times. The ability to never worry about keys, system locks, or DVD scratches is a good tradeoff, IMO. Besides, I can't think of a single piece of PC software that I have ever resold.
Finally, I find it super ironic that the Xbox One catches so much hell for something the Wii has been doing for almost a decade now. Don't believe me? Wait until it breaks and you try to move your digital content to a new unit. It's locked not to a single user, but to a single piece of hardware. But no lets freak out about the better of the two options, because it's cool.
:)
Quote from: Sacrosanct;664218I decided yesterday that from now on, I'm referring to it not as Xbox 1, but as Xbox 180
I've been favoring the "XBone".
(http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/the-hq-dar-16.jpg)
What do you all think of the Ouya? http://www.ouya.tv/
Think it will gain any traction against the Big Three?
Quote from: Spinachcat;664680What do you all think of the Ouya? http://www.ouya.tv/
Think it will gain any traction against the Big Three?
Doubt it.
A good rule of thumb is that "the next big thing" is rarely predicted by any sizable amount of people, so if lots of people are saying that it'll "take on the big three" it probably won't.
Quote from: Spinachcat;664680What do you all think of the Ouya? http://www.ouya.tv/
Think it will gain any traction against the Big Three?
I actually own one. Was a KS backer.
I can't judge it, since it won't have its official launch for a couple days. But right now it's kind of rough. It's improved, but the UI and interface is not great.
The controller is better than I thought it would be, but worse than I hoped. It's more like a $20 semi-cheap 3rd party controller as opposed to the $5 super cheap you can buy. It's not terrible, but it's nowhere near as good at the 360/Dual Shock
I don't think it will gain traction. It just doesn't have much in the way of games. It's funny, you hear all this press about how wonderful indie games are, especially with Sony promoting them. But the Ouya is basically all indie games and it barely gets a mention in the press these days.
I guess because most of the Ouya games are indie even by indie standards. You have low budget games from 1-2 people.
I was expecting more of the higher quality mobile games to make it. Stuff by Gameloft, Gamevil, etc. Which isn't anywhere near console standards, really, but stuff that is decent enough and a PITA to play on tablets without buttons.
On the plus side though, it's really nice because everything has a demo (or is free). And there are some gems. And I think it might be competitive versus the Vita.
Quote from: Piestrio;664138Looks like Microsoft is pulling a 180 and removing the "check in every 24 hours" and "can't play used games" crap.
On the one hand, hey that's awesome.
On the other hand you already showed everyone how stupid you were, it's a little hard to put that genie back in the bottle.
It's an interesting story. MS was clearly trying to move towards digital as their primary delivery channel, and these policies were in support of that. But to say they bungled the message would be something of an understatement (it's also possibly true that a lot of people don't want digital to be the primary delivery channel).
I can't believe Microsoft were claiming that it'd be more convenient to download an entire game to a friend's XBox 1 than it would be to just lug the disc over to their place. What sort of weird hyperfast broadband bubble do you need to live in to believe that that's going to be the situation for all of your consumers? For that matter, how elitist do you have to be to say "Welp, if you don't have an always-on broadband connection we don't actually want you as a customer"?
I also can't believe their petulance in announcing that all those cool new features they were going to bring out like Family Sharing aren't going to happen now. Um, guys, why not apply those solely to games bought via download and let people who prefer physical media use their physical media they way they expect to be able to? There's no good reason to treat games bought via one route exactly the same as games bought via a different medium, and whilst the options given looked crazy-restrictive when applied to games on physical media they actually seemed quite nice when applied to downloaded games.
Fire the entire Microsoft PR division, they're clearly incapable.
Quote from: Grymbok;665184But to say they bungled the message would be something of an understatement [...]
I know people who work at Microsoft in the games division and I'm trying to get confirmation on a couple of things, but I will say this: in general, Microsoft is nowhere near as stupid or incompetent as popular opinion has it. 90% of people's complaints about Microsoft products come from a deep ignorance of what Microsoft's real priorities are.
Pending confirmation, I feel pretty comfortable opining that the whole passel of digital DRM feature announcements was a trial balloon to see just how loudly people would scream and about what. I think they always intended to walk back the limits, but how much was going to be dependent on consumer reaction.
That makes sense. Other companies do this as well.
For example, the big patch notes for "the" major rebalance of guild wars 2 was leaked last week. It was on all the forums and people talked a lot about them. The items that were complained about the most often didn't actually happen in the actual release yesterday, but a whole bunch of other stuff on the "fake" release notes did. I'm pretty sure anet did it on purpose, despite what the forum warrior fanboys on the gw2 forum say.
Quote from: daniel_ream;665714I know people who work at Microsoft in the games division and I'm trying to get confirmation on a couple of things, but I will say this: in general, Microsoft is nowhere near as stupid or incompetent as popular opinion has it. 90% of people's complaints about Microsoft products come from a deep ignorance of what Microsoft's real priorities are.
Pending confirmation, I feel pretty comfortable opining that the whole passel of digital DRM feature announcements was a trial balloon to see just how loudly people would scream and about what. I think they always intended to walk back the limits, but how much was going to be dependent on consumer reaction.
In other words, a whole bunch of people have just been played.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;665748In other words, a whole bunch of people have just been played.
Maybe, but I can't see how it would be worth it.
Their 'trial balloon' sure did one thing. It
handed Sony E3 and won the PS4 a huge pile of easy goodwill.
Not to mention Internet MS-rage is still festering like a rotting hog in a Georgia July. Will that impact sales? I'm skeptical it will. It has certainly impacted pre-orders, but to what extent no one outside MS knows.
Quote from: KJDavid;665778Maybe, but I can't see how it would be worth it.
Their 'trial balloon' sure did one thing. It handed Sony E3 and won the PS4 a huge pile of easy goodwill.
Not to mention Internet MS-rage is still festering like a rotting hog in a Georgia July. Will that impact sales? I'm skeptical it will. It has certainly impacted pre-orders, but to what extent no one outside MS knows.
Considering hard core gamers are a small subset of MS's sales, I doubt it.
Quote from: daniel_ream;665714Pending confirmation, I feel pretty comfortable opining that the whole passel of digital DRM feature announcements was a trial balloon to see just how loudly people would scream and about what. I think they always intended to walk back the limits, but how much was going to be dependent on consumer reaction.
If so, then somebody miscalculated drastically: They created a situation in which the only thing Sony had to do was walk into E3 and say "we're not assholes like Microsoft" in order to win the approbation of gamers everywhere.
Microsoft is now trying very, very hard to staunch the bleeding: Why are they suddenly offering free games to X-Box Live Gold customers between now and Christmas? Because they were bleeding subscriptions and they needed some way of encouraging people to keep their subscriptions until the X-Bone comes out.
(Why have they so completely screwed up that free games program that it's created another PR disaster for them? Well... incompetence is pretty much the only answer at this point.)