Do you X-Wing? :)
Ok. I'll have to kick this off with a rant about the recent announcement of Wave 7.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/breaking-x-wing-wave-7-unveiled.html
I'll get them, and play them, but my concern is that there are only so many roles for ships, and the more ships they have, the more crowded the roles are becoming. I could see them using synergies to encourage using existing ships with new ships, say if the TIE Punisher gives TIE Bombers an advantage. But if the K-Wing is just a souped up Y-Wing with a built in turret and ordinance fixes, then why fly a Y-Wing?
They could also intentionally create new roles for the ships to fill. Though that could seriously gonk the meta and create some problems of it's own.
I know, it's too soon to really chew into these guys until we get some real stats to consider, but that's what I'm thinking right now.
Also, if you don't X-Wing, and have questions, fire away! I play in a weekly league, have participated in one store championship so far, and have at least some experience pushing these plastic spaceships around a table.
As the guy that literally got X-Wing played in my town, yeah, I play. And while I really enjoy the game, I have to wonder in instead of wave 7 what we need is a X1.2 and go with a new edition.
I just bought the core set yesterday. The game looks like it fits my needs pretty well, I love miniatures gaming but just don't have the time to assemble and paint anymore.
I've budgeted about another 40 bucks after the core to tinker with the game. Is a decent squad doable with this? I like the look of the scum and villainy ships but it seems like it would be starting all over whereas with Imperial and Rebel I at least have some stuff to start with.
Is there a guide somewhere for squad building? Anything I need to know about the meta?
Quote from: Arkansan;826846I just bought the core set yesterday. The game looks like it fits my needs pretty well, I love miniatures gaming but just don't have the time to assemble and paint anymore.
I've budgeted about another 40 bucks after the core to tinker with the game. Is a decent squad doable with this? I like the look of the scum and villainy ships but it seems like it would be starting all over whereas with Imperial and Rebel I at least have some stuff to start with.
Is there a guide somewhere for squad building? Anything I need to know about the meta?
I'm crunched for time right now, but here's a few things off the top of my head.
http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/
Online squad builder software.
http://teamcovenant.com/
Team Covenant blogs. Can pick up stuff about the meta there.
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/131310-new-player-quick-start-list-guide/
And a thread on the official forums on popular lists.
So I picked up a Tie Advanced and the Most wanted pack. My wife and I are going to sit down and play a game or two this evening to learn the ropes. I like the look of the scum and villainy stuff.
Quote from: Arkansan;826846I just bought the core set yesterday. The game looks like it fits my needs pretty well, I love miniatures gaming but just don't have the time to assemble and paint anymore.
I've budgeted about another 40 bucks after the core to tinker with the game. Is a decent squad doable with this? I like the look of the scum and villainy ships but it seems like it would be starting all over whereas with Imperial and Rebel I at least have some stuff to start with.
Is there a guide somewhere for squad building? Anything I need to know about the meta?
If the wife enjoys the game, pick up a second core set.
And be damn careful, those ships get addictive fast.
I don't like EU stuff. To me, the EU stuff doesn't feel like Star Wars. They look like ships out of Silent Death. If I want to play Silent Death with goofy non-descript starfighter designs, I'll play Silent Death. That's not a dig at Silent Death, but I don't see the point of playing a Star Wars starfighter game and using a bunch of ships that aren't from Star Wars.
That said, I do have a few of the EU ships. I have the TIE Defender because it at least looks like something that could have been in the movies. I also have the E-Wing, TIE Phantom, Z-95, and that goofy little transport that I forget the name of. That last one was mostly just to see the cards. I might get Dash Rendar's ship and the Imperial Dominator, because they look kinda sorta if viewed cross eyed like they might belong in Star Wars. But none of the other announced EU ships are anything I'd ever want to put on my table.
I'd buy prequel fighters, because they're infinitely better looking than what they've been releasing for the past couple of waves. I'd love some ARC-170s and some V-Wings.
I'm a little bummed at how hard it's been to get in a game lately. My local crowd out at the game shop near campus has been real hit-or-miss the last month or so; there was a flurry of activity leading up to the Store Championship, but I know at least two of the guys haven't played a single game since then.
I've downloaded Vassal, but haven't really played around with it to try and figure out how it works yet. Maybe it'll be a good way to get in some practice games over the summer, though.
Quote from: Critias;828653I'm a little bummed at how hard it's been to get in a game lately. My local crowd out at the game shop near campus has been real hit-or-miss the last month or so; there was a flurry of activity leading up to the Store Championship, but I know at least two of the guys haven't played a single game since then.
I've downloaded Vassal, but haven't really played around with it to try and figure out how it works yet. Maybe it'll be a good way to get in some practice games over the summer, though.
I took a look at Vassal, but my local group is pretty robust, so I don't have much incentive to get into using Vassal right now.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;828663I took a look at Vassal, but my local group is pretty robust, so I don't have much incentive to get into using Vassal right now.
The bright side is we're moving after the end of next semester, and will be right down the road from one of the biggest X-Wing communities out there (Madness Games apparently hosted the largest Regionals outside of FFG HQ, last year), so getting in regular gaming will be no problem...so "as soon as we move" is kind of our mantra for lots of stuff, right now.
Rise!
I played in a local summer tournament yesterday. I've been working on my X-Wing game, and it has paid off.
I've gone from consistently placing last, to seeing my place and performance slowly rise, to placing 5th in this tournament out of 24 players. I missed getting a Wave 9 ship prize by one place!
Very happy about my progress. Not so happy that I took a Dengaroo list, since there were at least 4 or 5 Dengaroo players present, and my last opponent conceded instead of playing against Dengaroo again. (This would have been his third game against Dengaroo.)
I like Dengaroo, but I know that it's cheesy as fuck, and annoying to play against.
I have some stuff for X-Wing but it never really took off here so I don't get much chance to play it. There is a fairly active Star Trek:Attack Wing community but competitive play in that game is very punishing for people who don't have large enough collections to take advantage of whatever is good in the current meta and I don't have a large enough collection.
This game made me cry.
I played the basic game a few times and loved it. Easy, straightforward, balanced.
Then people started buying the expansion packs and the damn cards that you can hang off your ships, and I totally lost interest. I wish they sold the basic X wing and TIE fighter outside the expensive starter sets.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919722I wish they sold the basic X wing and TIE fighter outside the expensive starter sets.
Your wish is granted.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/
Quote from: yosemitemike;919731Your wish is granted.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/
Yeah, the TIE and X-Wing were wave 1. They've been around almost as long as the starter box.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919722This game made me cry.
I played the basic game a few times and loved it. Easy, straightforward, balanced.
Then people started buying the expansion packs and the damn cards that you can hang off your ships, and I totally lost interest. I wish they sold the basic X wing and TIE fighter outside the expensive starter sets.
I think the balance has generally improved, honestly. 4 X-wings vs. 8 TIE fighters is not a fair matchup.
I do think that the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster variant is by far the most enjoyable way to play, however.
Quote from: yosemitemike;919731Your wish is granted.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/
...is that new? Because I missed it if not.
Okay, still pricey as hell, but that makes me happy. And the miniatures are mouth-wateringly good.
The game actually reminds me of a LOT of old WW1 and WW2 aircraft combat games of the 60s and 70s. But they include stuff like bases that lock onto the turning circles and turning circles of heavy cardboard instead of paper. And they've eliminated the paperwork by using all kinds of specialized components.
Expensive, yes, but I understand WHY it's expensive, and they've made the game play much more streamlined.
Quote from: Ddogwood;919773I think the balance has generally improved, honestly. 4 X-wings vs. 8 TIE fighters is not a fair matchup.
I do think that the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster variant is by far the most enjoyable way to play, however.
Well, second point first, I simply hate the "deck building" aspect that a LOT of miniatures games have acquired. YMMV.
As far as "balance," as an old miniatures gamer learning to balance a scenario is part of learning to set up a scenario. How many P-38Js are a matchup for 5 Zekes? If the Americans have two platoons of Shermans, what should the German force be?
I very, very strongly want a game where "An X wing is an X wing is an X wing is an X wing," and the ONLY differentiation between the ships on a team is the skill of the player.
I want a WARGAME.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919817The game actually reminds me of a LOT of old WW1 and WW2 aircraft combat games of the 60s and 70s. But they include stuff like bases that lock onto the turning circles and turning circles of heavy cardboard instead of paper. And they've eliminated the paperwork by using all kinds of specialized components.
X-Wing is based on WW1/WW2 game called Wings of Glory/Wings of War which I think is based on that older game. X-Wing is simpler, easier to pick up and based on a popular franchise. Wings of War/Glory takes more planning since you have to set maneuvers two turns in advance and is more scenario based without the beck building/collecting mechanism that X-Wing has. I have the WWII version with Spitfires and Me-190s for Battle of Britain and Wildcats vs Zeros for Pacific theater. It might actually be a better game for you.
http://www.aresgames.eu/games/ww2-wings-of-glory-line/ww2-wings-of-glory-starter-set
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/wings-of-war.html#/?_=1&filter.category_hierarchy=Table%20Top%20Miniatures%2FWings%20of%20Glory%2FWorld%20War%20II&page=1
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919819Well, second point first, I simply hate the "deck building" aspect that a LOT of miniatures games have acquired. YMMV.
As far as "balance," as an old miniatures gamer learning to balance a scenario is part of learning to set up a scenario. How many P-38Js are a matchup for 5 Zekes? If the Americans have two platoons of Shermans, what should the German force be?
The simple solution would be to use set scenarios and provide lists. Have everyone play the generic pilots instead of the named ones and give set upgrades to every ship of a given type. Maybe throw in one named pilot per squad to represent a leader. It would avoid the crazy deck building aspect of the game and prevent people with large collections from cherry picking all the broken stuff from all the expansions they own. By the way. all X-Wings (except for the Force Awakens one which is an upgraded version) are the same. The differences represent different pilots.
I think if you restrict your purchases to the 'canon' film ships, you can still get a pretty simple game. A-Wing, X-Wing, Y-Wing, B-Wing, TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor, TIE Advanced.
Some of the ships underperform for their points until they get some of the later upgrades, but not so badly that they aren't viable. Just meh.
Most ordinance sucks, and the Falcon can get pretty cheesy even without C-3PO. (Turret is OP!!! :D)
Quote from: yosemitemike;919911By the way. all X-Wings (except for the Force Awakens one which is an upgraded version) are the same. The differences represent different pilots.
I realize that, but I want ALL X-wings to be mechanically the same. I don't want a "pilot" character whose skill is different from mine.
And I may have to check out Wings of War WW2 version. As Chirine can tell you, I've been in love with WW2 aircraft combat games since I got into wargaming, and never HAVE found one that quite grabbed me for miniatures.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919977And I may have to check out Wings of War WW2 version. As Chirine can tell you, I've been in love with WW2 aircraft combat games since I got into wargaming, and never HAVE found one that quite grabbed me for miniatures.
It's a very simple, beer and pretzels sort of game. Handling characteristics of different aircraft are abstracted and handled very simply with the maneuver system. Every plane comes with a small set of maneuver cards that define what maneuvers it can take and that are used as maneuver templates. You lay them down during planning. When you do the maneuver, you simply pick up the card, line up the mark on one end with the mark on the plane's base and then move it to the other end so it's lined up again. The cards themselves reflect different handling characteristics. Faster planes will have longer lines on the cards. Planes that turn better have options for cards with more sharply curving lines. I think it's well done and clever but it's very beer and pretzels. If you want a simulation, this isn't it.
As long as it takes altitude into account somehow and makes it tactically favorable to get on your enemy's six, I'm happy.
Playability is a high premium with me.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919987As long as it takes altitude into account somehow and makes it tactically favorable to get on your enemy's six, I'm happy.
Playability is a high premium with me.
The altitude system is very abstract and simple. Essentially, you add or subtract clear pegs to show altitude. It has a simple rule for tailing. The player controlling the tailing plane gets to look at the next maneuver card for the tailed plane so you can get a bit of information about where they will be. In this game, that's a significant advantage. Also, most planes only fire out an an arc in the front marked on the base so you can shoot them but they can't shoot back. There are a few larger planes like the Stuka or the B-17 that can fire out of other arcs. They are all slow, wallowing things.
The older, Fantasy Flight sets don't require you to buy models. They come with cards to represent the planes. I haven't seen the new Ares starter sets. I don't know if I like the new starter set so much. It comes with four planes from different countries while the old one had a Battle of Britain theme with Me-109s and Spitfires.
Not seeing a clear answer or much on these little warplanes- do they come painted already?
Quote from: Crüesader;919991Not seeing a clear answer or much on these little warplanes- do they come painted already?
Yes, they are prepainted.
Quote from: yosemitemike;919992Yes, they are prepainted.
Ah. So there's no options for unpainted ones.
Well, I can see the play factor being higher than the modeling factor.
Quote from: Crüesader;919993Ah. So there's no options for unpainted ones.
Well, I can see the play factor being higher than the modeling factor.
It's a quick play game. It's not really made for modellers.
Quote from: yosemitemike;919998It's a quick play game. It's not really made for modellers.
Yeah, but I can see how a smaller-scale vehicular model game could be fun. Especially if you were making your own weapon loadouts on aircraft and the like. When I was young, we had these little tanks, jets, and other stuff that were all smaller than Hot Wheels- 'Mega Force'. They had these obscenely awesome looks and stuff. I'd honestly like to see that re-released with a game system.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]389[/ATTACH]
These were my favorite. I think they were the bad guys, though. We used to bring them to school and have wars at our desk when the weather was too bad to have outdoor recess. We would get our notebooks out and draw rivers and bridges and stuff like that.
It uses a 1/200th scale which isn't very modeller friendly. The planes are really small. I have seen games that use a 1/72nd that are a lot more modeller friendly but they are much more involved affairs that take a lot of floor space to play.
Quote from: yosemitemike;920001It uses a 1/200th scale which isn't very modeller friendly. The planes are really small. I have seen games that use a 1/72nd that are a lot more modeller friendly but they are much more involved affairs that take a lot of floor space to play.
Yeah. The best way you could 'model' things like this is to offer wings/turret kits with different combos rather than individual missiles and guns. But it would be a blast to have this multi-level combat. Like Warhammer Epic scale, but a bit larger.
Quote from: Crüesader;920002Yeah. The best way you could 'model' things like this is to offer wings/turret kits with different combos rather than individual missiles and guns. But it would be a blast to have this multi-level combat. Like Warhammer Epic scale, but a bit larger.
The game you are looking for is Micro Armour.
http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/military-models-modern-micro-armour.html
Unfortunately, their website sucks and their search feature is worthless. Just Google micro armour plus whatever you are looking for.
Duly noted. I'll look through this later.
This has not got me thinking about how a miniature vehicle wargame could work. That 'card' thing as the base seems like a good idea. I can see how a base with modular 'chips' could be used to represent the loadout of an aircraft. Not quite like those 'heroclix' games, but little parts you could put down to count ammo and special equipment and such.
Quote from: Crüesader;920005Duly noted. I'll look through this later.
This has not got me thinking about how a miniature vehicle wargame could work. That 'card' thing as the base seems like a good idea. I can see how a base with modular 'chips' could be used to represent the loadout of an aircraft. Not quite like those 'heroclix' games, but little parts you could put down to count ammo and special equipment and such.
You could use little magnets but that would increase costs.
Quote from: yosemitemike;920008You could use little magnets but that would increase costs.
Well, think of it like a hex-based game. The base of the model would be a hexagon. Now, you would have little flat 'chips' that are removed from the base. Those chips would specify a number of, say, a special type of warhead. Others could represent things like reinforced armor, a rangefinder system for other weapons systems, etc.
Something like this: [ATTACH=CONFIG]390[/ATTACH]
I dunno, I'm just brainstorming things that could be 'built'.
Quote from: Crüesader;919999Yeah, but I can see how a smaller-scale vehicular model game could be fun. Especially if you were making your own weapon loadouts on aircraft and the like. When I was young, we had these little tanks, jets, and other stuff that were all smaller than Hot Wheels- 'Mega Force'. They had these obscenely awesome looks and stuff. I'd honestly like to see that re-released with a game system.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]389[/ATTACH]
These were my favorite. I think they were the bad guys, though. We used to bring them to school and have wars at our desk when the weather was too bad to have outdoor recess. We would get our notebooks out and draw rivers and bridges and stuff like that.
I loved Mega Force. I always wanted to knock together a simple system to game with them.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;920068I loved Mega Force. I always wanted to knock together a simple system to game with them.
One of those obscure toys of the era that most people don't remember. Everyone knows GI Joe, Transformers, and He-Man. I liked all that stuff, too- but Mega Force and Ring Raiders were some of my favorites. Most of the bigger toys we couldn't afford, and I liked having a bunch of stuff to create little battles. So it was easy with stuff like Mega Force and Ring Raiders.
Mega Force could easily be converted into a miniatures game. The hardest part would be getting your hands on them.
Hell, they had some balls-out names for the bigger vehicles: "Thunderwolf" and "Thorhammer". They were one executive meeting away from naming the next ones "Cocksmasher" and "King Fuck".
Quote from: Crüesader;920070Mega Force could easily be converted into a miniatures game. The hardest part would be getting your hands on them.
Oh yeah. I've been to ebay to look up some old toys before. Either they're extremely expensive, or broken and missing pieces.
QuoteHell, they had some balls-out names for the bigger vehicles: "Thunderwolf" and "Thorhammer". They were one executive meeting away from naming the next ones "Cocksmasher" and "King Fuck".
:D
Quote from: Ratman_tf;920078Oh yeah. I've been to ebay to look up some old toys before. Either they're extremely expensive, or broken and missing pieces.
:D
Just go look at the Mega Force toys. What the fuck kind of future do they live in? It's like earth was just two Superpowers having a dick-measuring contest to see who could build the largest tank that was full of normal tanks. Like, is there even a Congress around to question these decisions in the Mega Force future?
Defense Spending: ALL OF IT
"Yeah, I want a cool base but it would be even cooler if we strapped guns to it and drove that son of a bitch to the enemy. Fuck better missile technology, fuck better troops, just build me a goddamned mobile command center the size of Dallas so I can smoke a cigar in my office while we kill those Commies." - a General during the Mega Force wars.
Quote from: Crüesader;920079"Yeah, I want a cool base but it would be even cooler if we strapped guns to it and drove that son of a bitch to the enemy. Fuck better missile technology, fuck better troops, just build me a goddamned mobile command center the size of Dallas so I can smoke a cigar in my office while we kill those Commies." - a General during the Mega Force wars.
And it needs arms to scoop enemy tanks out the way!
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a5/84/9c/a5849c6b9fbd04b741a9493861bcf203.jpg)
Quote from: yosemitemike;920001It uses a 1/200th scale which isn't very modeller friendly. The planes are really small. I have seen games that use a 1/72nd that are a lot more modeller friendly but they are much more involved affairs that take a lot of floor space to play.
I painted up a bunch of 1/285 scale aircraft complete with squadron markings and three different camoflauge patterns just on the Bf-109s. Some of us like that.
Micro Armor, Scotia Grendel, MSD? Inquiring minds need to know. Especially if they're Scotia Grendel as I've always wanted some Collectair figures but wasn't sure about the casting quality.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;920146I painted up a bunch of 1/285 scale aircraft complete with squadron markings and three different camoflauge patterns just on the Bf-109s. Some of us like that.
I did not say it was impossible.
Quote from: David Johansen;920153Micro Armor, Scotia Grendel, MSD? Inquiring minds need to know. Especially if they're Scotia Grendel as I've always wanted some Collectair figures but wasn't sure about the casting quality.
Phht... mmmm. I bought them circa 1978 or so and I'm afraid I no longer have any notion.
Probably Micro Armor then.
WWII?
I admire the depth of your unpainted pile. Mine only goes back to around 1985.
Is the thing about unpainted lead making you immortal true then?
There's Flames of War WWII which uses a 1/100th scale as well. With that one, you need to be careful to coordinate what everyone is getting since it has three eras (early/mid/late war) that are not compatible with each other. If people just buy whatever they want, you will probably end up with people who can't play against each other since their armies for from different eras. We ran into this problem.
...wow, that seems like a very shortsighted decision. The Russians used T34/76s from 1941 to 1945, for instance.
It depends a bit, as long as you aren't fighting Germans with Tiger IIs and Panthers, there's some ability to play armies from different periods against each others. For instance, my Romanians are basically a WWI army, lots of infantry and artillery with limited air support and access to Panzer IVs. Oh and I get R-35s which are a strong contender for worst tank in the game, even my Panzer 38ts are mighty by comparison. But people sure start sweating when I put 8 150mm Skoda howitzers on my table edge. And then they see my TACAMs. The Romanians converted a small but significant number of tank chassis into tank destroyers by mounting anti-tank guns on them. Now these ramshackle vehicles aren't great but they can kill a Tiger II from the rear. So I try to get them into thick terrain and hide them. They've almost never been fired. But people sure spend a lot of their efforts on hunting them down because they don't want them in their rear arc. Similarly, my R-35s are useless against tanks but very effective against light vehicles and infantry. And when a certain wise ass brings their fortified company to the tournament this year, they'll be facing bunker busting 150mm guns not my poor german infantry company that got hung up on the barbed wire last time.
That's why I prefer games with a scenario set up by a referee.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;920304...wow, that seems like a very shortsighted decision. The Russians used T34/76s from 1941 to 1945, for instance.
The T34/76 is less powerful relative to other units that you can get in the late war period so the points cost is reduced. The same model can be used but you will need more for a late war army. I can see the rationale since technology changed dramatically over the course of the war but it can make things tricky. If I bring my army (British 8th Army North Africa, mid war) to a store Flames of War night and everyone else is into late war, I'm shit out of luck. A late war army will walk all over mine. My army is made for a time when the Panzer IV Aus F2 was the shit because of it's new 75mm gun and my opponent is fielding those as cannon fodder for his Panthers and Tigers.
On the topic of the X-Wing game: How would you compare it to Battlefleet: Gothic (Also rumored to be returning, but doubtful).
Quote from: Crüesader;920769On the topic of the X-Wing game: How would you compare it to Battlefleet: Gothic (Also rumored to be returning, but doubtful).
It's a very different sort of game than Battlefleet:Gothic on a very different scale. FFG does make a Star Wars game centered around big ships and fleets called Star Wars:Armada which is more like Battlefleet:Gothic in feel. It had an interesting maneuver system which conveys the size and ponderousness of capital ships pretty well. It's expensive compared to X-Wing though and never took off around here. I got a deal on the stuff because the store was trying to get rid of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE16ZKHm_-U
It's a clever game but the ships cost anywhere from $20 for a small ship like a Corellian Corvette to $50 for a big ship like an Imperial Star Destroyer.
While we're linking videos.
[video=youtube_share;PuhwSma960Y]https://youtu.be/PuhwSma960Y[/youtube]
That reminds me. It's very handy to have a cloth to put on the table during play. Without a cloth to increase friction, models are knocked out of place very easily.