This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: [WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?  (Read 2929 times)

CRKrueger

  • Hulk in the Vineyard
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12458
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 03:12:44 PM »
Quote from: Herr Arnulfe;1015055
Is that why there's a mod policy of quarantining narrative RPG threads? I haven't been around the forums much recently so I might've missed some related flamewars. I thought the anti-Swine movement was old news.
It has to be pretty heavy on the narrative to get moved these days.  But since this thread is specifically about that, it makes sense.

Quote from: Herr Arnulfe;1015055
How do you handle diverse party compositions in WFRP? In some of my games the players have embraced the narrative challenge - in others they've needed help. WFRP 3e used Party Cards but I believe that's the only solution that's ever been offered.
That's a good question, will be back later when I have more time.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Itachi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • I
  • Posts: 1158
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 11:31:01 PM »
I wouldn't bet on it having narrative rules, no. By the sparse interviews I've seen from the authors, they want to go back to roots of 1st/2nd editions and d100.

But I do think there is a big chance they come up with a simplified/streamlined take on those rules, yes. This seems a tendency these days.

Herr Arnulfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • H
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2017, 01:11:51 AM »
Quote from: Itachi;1015170
I wouldn't bet on it having narrative rules, no. By the sparse interviews I've seen from the authors, they want to go back to roots of 1st/2nd editions and d100.

But I do think there is a big chance they come up with a simplified/streamlined take on those rules, yes. This seems a tendency these days.
Yes, as mentioned in the OP it's been confirmed that the system will be traditional d100. However, the launch was also delayed 6 months for additional new mechanics.

Do you use the XP awards listed in the modules for completing pre-defined plot objectives? That system seems a little outdated now IMO, or at least the definition of "doing the right thing" ought to be more flexible for XP purposes.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 01:21:48 AM by Herr Arnulfe »
 

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 02:06:18 AM »
When I think narrative games, I am thinking RPGs where the GM's input is secondary to the player's input. AKA, the player's create and the GM responds.

If there is even a GM.

Quote from: Voros;1014954
As has been pointed out before many 'storygame' mechanics appear in older 'trad' games like Toon, Ghostbusters, James Bond, etc. Hardly surprising as narrative games and storygames didn't come out of nowhere but are inspired by previous game designs.


Agreed.

There are plenty of OOC-ish mechanics in various pre-2000 RPGs.

Herr Arnulfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • H
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 02:20:06 AM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1015186
When I think narrative games, I am thinking RPGs where the GM's input is secondary to the player's input. AKA, the player's create and the GM responds.

For purposes of this thread, you can redefine narrative mechanics as those which give players input into the story, or assist with the story-creation process (for players or GMs).
 

BedrockBrendan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12418
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 08:20:41 AM »
Quote from: Herr Arnulfe;1015055
Is that why there's a mod policy of quarantining narrative RPG threads? I haven't been around the forums much recently so I might've missed some related flamewars. I thought the anti-Swine movement was old news.
.

I honestly don't have an axe to grind on this subject, but moving story game discussions to the Other Games subforum has been the policy for as long as I can remember. Not sure when it started. If you disagree with it, I suggest saying so in the help desk or contacting Pundit directly if you think this case went too far. But this looks pretty text book to me.

Herr Arnulfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • H
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 08:34:26 AM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1015205
I honestly don't have an axe to grind on this subject, but moving story game discussions to the Other Games subforum has been the policy for as long as I can remember. Not sure when it started. If you disagree with it, I suggest saying so in the help desk or contacting Pundit directly if you think this case went too far. But this looks pretty text book to me.

That's fine; I wouldn't classify this as a storygame thread personally, but if the site policy is all-or-nothing then so be it. I'm more interested in good ideas from WFRPers than quibbling over semantics.
 

Voros

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3537
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2017, 09:55:05 AM »
The biggest question for WFRP 4e I think is what will be their approach to magic?

Herr Arnulfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • H
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2017, 10:02:12 AM »
Quote from: Voros;1015227
The biggest question for WFRP 4e I think is what will be their approach to magic?

One of the Liber Fanatica writers was working on a system that allowed players to customize their spell effects, as per Ars Magica. Something like that might be more RPG-friendly than simply porting over battlefield spells from WFB.
 

Voros

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3537
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2017, 08:11:57 AM »
Sounds cool. I think most prefer 2e magic correct? At least the old school WFRP players and GMs. I'd like something a little less D&D myself, I've read the 1e rule set but not 2e yet.

Herr Arnulfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • H
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2017, 08:29:49 AM »
Quote from: Voros;1014954
As has been pointed out before many 'storygame' mechanics appear in older 'trad' games like Toon, Ghostbusters, James Bond, etc. Hardly surprising as narrative games and storygames didn't come out of nowhere but are inspired by previous game designs.

Sometimes the procedures used in trad RPGs are essentially narrative systems too. Players don't always recognise narrative procedures as "mechanics" per se, because they emerged from gameplay experience rather than a rulebook.

For example, probably half of the Call of Cthulhu players that I've gamed with generate a "backup PC" to run if/when their character dies or goes mad. Backup PCs are treated as "minor NPCs with shared player/GM agency" until replacement. This ensures they're already integrated with the story, and don't just materialize out of nowhere when the original PC dies. From my perspective, this is a narrative mechanic.

When I originally started playing Burning Wheel, I realized that most of the Artha mechanics were just codifications of roleplay processes that were already natural to me in trad gaming. I recall several years ago in an RPGnet thread, the designer was confused that as a player I wasn't approaching BW differently from a trad RPG. Ironically, the parts of BW that didn't feel intuitive to me were task-res systems like positioning and scripted combat.
 

Herr Arnulfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • H
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2017, 08:34:54 AM »
Quote from: Voros;1015420
Sounds cool. I think most prefer 2e magic correct? At least the old school WFRP players and GMs. I'd like something a little less D&D myself, I've read the 1e rule set but not 2e yet.
My impression is that people prefer the danger associated with 2e magic, but many prefer the 1e wizard classes over the College system. In my opinion, the College system could be retained while making the actual wizard classes cooler. The spells in all editions are "meh" because they were just lifted from the current WFB edition. WFRP 3e had some good ideas about channelling to build up a temporary "power reserve" that's used like 1e Magic Points.
 

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2017, 07:52:25 PM »
Quote from: Voros;1015227
The biggest question for WFRP 4e I think is what will be their approach to magic?

Color Magic 4tehwin!! :D

I am probably in the minority, but I really enjoyed color magic in Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

jadrax

  • Dr Ajax
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • j
  • Posts: 2201
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2017, 08:00:57 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1015527
I am probably in the minority, but I really enjoyed color magic in Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

I very much doubt that you are in the minority.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 14691
    • View Profile
[WFRP 4] Narrative Mechanics?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2017, 08:17:23 AM »
Quote from: Herr Arnulfe;1014803
Inspiration would count IMO, because if the player writes background on their character sheet the GM is supposed to add it to the gameworld.


um... Thats not how inspiration or backgrounds work in 5e D&D.