Quote from: RandyB;1143543And I say that knowing that some of my favorite factions are among the top candidates for elimination.

They already wrote out my two favorite factions; Squats and Slann.

Quote from: oggsmash;1143583Do you have any rule sets you prefer?  I have a box of Perry miniatures I got to get a mix of infantry for RPGs and the cost versus quality, sold me pretty well.  I almost got the Hail Caesar starter set numerous times walking by it at my FLGS.

Warlord Games' rules are a bit generic for some but easy to get into, most of them (except for Bolt Action) are based on Warmaster by Rick Priestly so the easiest for people coming from GW. Other rules it depends what era you want to play. Lion Rampant and Art De La Guerre are popular for ancients to early 1400s. Pike and Shotte by Warlord is what I play for renaissance and works well enough, they just don't support it much. Baroque and Furioso are other rulesets for the period. Black Powder is fairly popular for doing 18th-19th century but there are other, more conflict specific rules out there although it's not something I do much of so I'm not sure what else to recommend for that. WWII has a lot of options but Bolt Action, Flames of War, and Battlegroup are all played a lot.

Quote from: Cigalazade;1143663Warlord Games' rules are a bit generic for some but easy to get into, most of them (except for Bolt Action) are based on Warmaster by Rick Priestly so the easiest for people coming from GW. Other rules it depends what era you want to play. Lion Rampant and Art De La Guerre are popular for ancients to early 1400s. Pike and Shotte by Warlord is what I play for renaissance and works well enough, they just don't support it much. Baroque and Furioso are other rulesets for the period. Black Powder is fairly popular for doing 18th-19th century but there are other, more conflict specific rules out there although it's not something I do much of so I'm not sure what else to recommend for that. WWII has a lot of options but Bolt Action, Flames of War, and Battlegroup are all played a lot.

  Yeah ancient I was thinking, I enjoy Roman history.  Do you have any experience with Konflict '47?   Seems to have a Dust Tactics vibe as to background (I like the Dust look, but the rules seemed meh, and since it went under once and I have no idea how the comeback under new company is going) and I am a sucker for the weird tossed in with the historical.

Quote from: oggsmash;1143667Yeah ancient I was thinking, I enjoy Roman history.  Do you have any experience with Konflict '47?   Seems to have a Dust Tactics vibe as to background (I like the Dust look, but the rules seemed meh, and since it went under once and I have no idea how the comeback under new company is going) and I am a sucker for the weird tossed in with the historical.

I have not played K47 but some Bolt Action people like it. Not sure how much Warlord supports it, Bolt Action and Black Powder get most of the attention in that regard.

There are a lot of fantasy and historical miniatures games out there. Apart from established franchises (e. g . Star Wars), is anybody mounting serious competition to 40K?

Quote from: RandyB;1144358There are a lot of fantasy and historical miniatures games out there. Apart from established franchises (e. g . Star Wars), is anybody mounting serious competition to 40K?

Warmachine gave them a run for their money. The established franchise, Star Wars seems to be the big contender now.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/43733/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2019

Nozlur's is on there, but it's just a miniatures line to support D&D, not wargaming especially.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1144379Warmachine gave them a run for their money. The established franchise, Star Wars seems to be the big contender now.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/43733/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2019

Nozlur's is on there, but it's just a miniatures line to support D&D, not wargaming especially.

I thought Warmachine was fantasy?

Quote from: RandyB;1144381I thought Warmachine was fantasy?

Kinda sorta. More steampunk fantasy, but a lot of the Hordes (Sister game, same rules, totally compatible in official tournaments) factions go lighter on the steampunk and stronger into the fantasy.

Did you mean only fantasy games?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1144417Kinda sorta. More steampunk fantasy, but a lot of the Hordes (Sister game, same rules, totally compatible in official tournaments) factions go lighter on the steampunk and stronger into the fantasy.

Did you mean only fantasy games?

For Warmachine, I thought it was only fantasy. Your explanation clarifies that for me.

Is anyone challenging 40K in its own arena of future science fantasy?

Quote from: RandyB;1144438For Warmachine, I thought it was only fantasy. Your explanation clarifies that for me.

Is anyone challenging 40K in its own arena of future science fantasy?

I would say no.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1144475I would say no.

That's my impression as well.

So looking at the latest round of changes posted on Warhammer Community...

Hm.

Heavy bolter damage jumps to 2.
Flamer/heavy flamer range increases to 12".
Meltas now deal +2 damage at half range.
Power swords gain +1 Strength modifier.
Space Marine chainswords now have AP -1.
Supercharged plasma weapons overheat only on an UNMODIFIED roll of 1.
Necron synaptic disintegrator (Deathmark rifle) becomes Heavy 1, Range 36", Strength 5, AP -2, Damage 1, ignores Look Out Sir! rule and deals an extra mortal wound on any unmodified to wound roll of 6.
Necron rod of covenant (Triarch Praetorian weapon) now deals 2 damage as opposed to 1.
Supposedly both Deathmarks and Praetorians will be getting a statline buff.
All Space Marine infantry (Primaris or standard) now have 2 wounds. First Company Terminators jump to 3 wounds.

I'm not sold on the Space Marine wound buff, but that being said, if weaponry is becoming deadlier it might not be an issue. The poor Praetorians definitely needed some love; since they can't access Dynasty traits, the only Triarch unit you ever saw was the Stalker.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144738So looking at the latest round of changes posted on Warhammer Community...

Hm.

Heavy bolter damage jumps to 2.
Flamer/heavy flamer range increases to 12".
Meltas now deal +2 damage at half range.
Power swords gain +1 Strength modifier.
Space Marine chainswords now have AP -1.
Supercharged plasma weapons overheat only on an UNMODIFIED roll of 1.
Necron synaptic disintegrator (Deathmark rifle) becomes Heavy 1, Range 36", Strength 5, AP -2, Damage 1, ignores Look Out Sir! rule and deals an extra mortal wound on any unmodified to wound roll of 6.
Necron rod of covenant (Triarch Praetorian weapon) now deals 2 damage as opposed to 1.
Supposedly both Deathmarks and Praetorians will be getting a statline buff.
All Space Marine infantry (Primaris or standard) now have 2 wounds. First Company Terminators jump to 3 wounds.

I'm not sold on the Space Marine wound buff, but that being said, if weaponry is becoming deadlier it might not be an issue. The poor Praetorians definitely needed some love; since they can't access Dynasty traits, the only Triarch unit you ever saw was the Stalker.

The SM wound buff differentiates them further from Guardsmen, at the very least. And the points increase means that SM will be a smaller, even hardier force than they used to be, especially relative to Guard and other horde factions.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144738So looking at the latest round of changes posted on Warhammer Community...

Hm.

Heavy bolter damage jumps to 2.
Flamer/heavy flamer range increases to 12".
Meltas now deal +2 damage at half range.
Power swords gain +1 Strength modifier.
Space Marine chainswords now have AP -1.
Supercharged plasma weapons overheat only on an UNMODIFIED roll of 1.
Necron synaptic disintegrator (Deathmark rifle) becomes Heavy 1, Range 36", Strength 5, AP -2, Damage 1, ignores Look Out Sir! rule and deals an extra mortal wound on any unmodified to wound roll of 6.
Necron rod of covenant (Triarch Praetorian weapon) now deals 2 damage as opposed to 1.
Supposedly both Deathmarks and Praetorians will be getting a statline buff.
All Space Marine infantry (Primaris or standard) now have 2 wounds. First Company Terminators jump to 3 wounds.

I'm not sold on the Space Marine wound buff, but that being said, if weaponry is becoming deadlier it might not be an issue. The poor Praetorians definitely needed some love; since they can't access Dynasty traits, the only Triarch unit you ever saw was the Stalker.

I'm not fond of the idea of squads having multiple wound models to track. And if it does lead to the meta leaning into mulitiple damage weapons, then they're just creating a treadmill where the "lesser" weapons get left behind.

And what's that they're saying about meltas getting more shots?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1144745I'm not fond of the idea of squads having multiple wound models to track. And if it does lead to the meta leaning into mulitiple damage weapons, then they're just creating a treadmill where the "lesser" weapons get left behind.

And what's that they're saying about meltas getting more shots?

Missed that. Multi-meltas go to Heavy 2.

Oddly, because of the way the wound allocation rules work, it's not that hard to track. Each attack is allocated to a model (and you resolve each attack one at a time, no assigning all the attacks to one poor schmuck). If the model already has wounds the attack MUST be allocated to that model.

So if you have ten Marines (2 wounds), and they suddenly come under fire from a Lokhust Heavy Destroyer with an enmitic exterminator (Heavy 3d3, Dmg 1). Let's say the Lokhust fires six times and hits five. The Necron player then starts rolling for wounds (Str 7 vs T 4 for Marines, so 3+). He's lucky and racks up 4 wounds, which have to be saved at 4+ (the weapon is AP-1).  Marine player only saves half the wounds, so 2 damage has to be applied. Because of the aforementioned allocation, all the damage (2) gets dealt to one unlucky Marine.

Now, let's change the scenario a bit. The Destroyer in this case is using a heavy gauss cannon, because he's confused and thinks the Marines are actually a tank. He puts a single Heavy shot into them. I don't know if heavy gauss is a blast weapon yet, but we'll assume it's not for now. One poor Marine eats a Str 9 AP-4 shot and takes 5 damage. However, this is standard damage, NOT mortal wounds, so the overflow damage doesn't hit the rest of the squad (that poor Marine's geneseed is a writeoff though).

There is an exception to the 'overflow damage is lost' rule though, and that's mortal wounds. Normal damage is applied first, but then mortal wounds, and mortal wounds WILL overflow and hit other members of the unit.