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Author Topic: Warhammer 40K Ninth edition  (Read 2531 times)

CRKrueger

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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2020, 07:12:57 PM »
It's been forever since the Sisters had new models.  They are literally the LAST army to get updated to plastics.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Spinachcat

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« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2020, 11:16:58 PM »
What has GW done to the fluff to justify the Sisters fielding entire armies?

In the past, they were tasked with rooting out heresy inside the Imperium. It made them the big guns to back up the Inquisition or cultist insurgencies that threatened to overwhelm the Guard, because Power Armor + Bolters does the job. I believe it was Rogue Trader which had a great image of a Sister coming down upon cultists like the Shadow blazing away with two bolters.

They were a badass squad to field for Necromunda and they made perfect sense there. It was cool because you had 3-4 figures vs. 11-15 and the other player was questioning their odds. In the old fluff, it could have been a solo Sister wandering the Hive eliminating gangs.

I hope they didn't make them just Space Marines with Boobies, or worse Woke Marines.

CRKrueger

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« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2020, 11:45:54 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1139229
What has GW done to the fluff to justify the Sisters fielding entire armies?

In the past, they were tasked with rooting out heresy inside the Imperium. It made them the big guns to back up the Inquisition or cultist insurgencies that threatened to overwhelm the Guard, because Power Armor + Bolters does the job. I believe it was Rogue Trader which had a great image of a Sister coming down upon cultists like the Shadow blazing away with two bolters.

They were a badass squad to field for Necromunda and they made perfect sense there. It was cool because you had 3-4 figures vs. 11-15 and the other player was questioning their odds. In the old fluff, it could have been a solo Sister wandering the Hive eliminating gangs.

I hope they didn't make them just Space Marines with Boobies, or worse Woke Marines.

No, they're still the same Sisters.  They've always been the soldiers of the Ecclesiarchy.  The Codex has plenty of Ministorum Units like Missionaries, Preachers, Crusaders, Assassins, etc.  Plus you can always add in Inquisition forces like you can for any Imperium Army.  The Sisters haven't gotten an upgrade to Astartes level, they're still human under the Power Armor.  I see no evidence of any SJW shenanigans except for the Repentia having more clothes, but that's got more to do with the parents of 12 year olds than anything else.  Remember, GW shops in England are practically Day Care Centers.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Snark Knight

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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2020, 12:58:02 PM »
Quote from: oggsmash;1138688
Care to share any of those better written games (At least table top war or skirmish)?  Our group plays some killteam and I and my son (I am the guy who sucked his son into playing with the toy soldiers) both have small armies, but I think you are right with the rules bloat.  I think we will stick to 8th, but I am entertaining other stuff as well.

A Song of Ice & Fire by CMON - A surprisingly easy-to-learn, hard-to-master rank-and-file game with alternating activations. Surprisingly cheap to get started with as each faction's starter set (or the Stark vs Lannister boxset if you're playing those) includes the rulebook, dice, 2D terrain, rulers, etc that you'll need to play, as well as models that're almost enough to get you up to standard point matches (especially the Night's Watch box). It also introduces the Tactics Board which represents the "plots going on behind the scenes" where you claim one of several points on the board, which provide instantaneous effects in addition to what those characters do anyway. There's also a card game element with the Tactics Dead, though a few people dislike it for the more "Gotcha!" moments it provides, even though that's fitting to the narrative. The big downside is Asmodee's historically ability to keep things in stock. The models also come pre-assembled but whether that's a plus or minus is personal preference.

Kings of War - The replacement to Warhammer Fantasy for a lot of people. It's essentially the same game with much tighter balance, more streamlined rules without falling into the trap of casualisation. There's not much to really say about this as if you enjoyed Warhammer Fantasy, you'd enjoy this. Mantic's models aren't great but they are much cheaper than GW's offerings and are improving, as well as not restricting you to their stuff at events (though I guess that might only be relevant in the UK).

Star Wars: Legion - I've not played it myself but it seems to have replaced Warmahordes for the runner up to GW's crown, which considering the popularity of the IP (even these days) doesn't hurt. It suffers from the ASOI&F problem of Asmodee's atrocious unreliability of getting models to stores but it's more popular and although launches are a mess, you can usually pick up new stuff sooner rather than later. My understanding is that it's a fun, quite tight ruleset, but not without its issues (as with any wargame).

oggsmash

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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2020, 03:15:21 PM »
Quote from: Snark Knight;1140367
A Song of Ice & Fire by CMON - A surprisingly easy-to-learn, hard-to-master rank-and-file game with alternating activations. Surprisingly cheap to get started with as each faction's starter set (or the Stark vs Lannister boxset if you're playing those) includes the rulebook, dice, 2D terrain, rulers, etc that you'll need to play, as well as models that're almost enough to get you up to standard point matches (especially the Night's Watch box). It also introduces the Tactics Board which represents the "plots going on behind the scenes" where you claim one of several points on the board, which provide instantaneous effects in addition to what those characters do anyway. There's also a card game element with the Tactics Dead, though a few people dislike it for the more "Gotcha!" moments it provides, even though that's fitting to the narrative. The big downside is Asmodee's historically ability to keep things in stock. The models also come pre-assembled but whether that's a plus or minus is personal preference.

Kings of War - The replacement to Warhammer Fantasy for a lot of people. It's essentially the same game with much tighter balance, more streamlined rules without falling into the trap of casualisation. There's not much to really say about this as if you enjoyed Warhammer Fantasy, you'd enjoy this. Mantic's models aren't great but they are much cheaper than GW's offerings and are improving, as well as not restricting you to their stuff at events (though I guess that might only be relevant in the UK).

Star Wars: Legion - I've not played it myself but it seems to have replaced Warmahordes for the runner up to GW's crown, which considering the popularity of the IP (even these days) doesn't hurt. It suffers from the ASOI&F problem of Asmodee's atrocious unreliability of getting models to stores but it's more popular and although launches are a mess, you can usually pick up new stuff sooner rather than later. My understanding is that it's a fun, quite tight ruleset, but not without its issues (as with any wargame).

 I like the one and the three, both games have nice models and I have read the rules are decent.  As for MANTIC, well I have tried to give them a couple of tries regarding their miniatures, but holy shit....they need to use models that plastic glue works on (maybe this has changed the past few years) because between Deadzone and a box of undead I picked up for RPG models, they made me want to break shit.

CRKrueger

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« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2020, 01:33:21 AM »
Quote from: oggsmash;1141045
I like the one and the three, both games have nice models and I have read the rules are decent.  As for MANTIC, well I have tried to give them a couple of tries regarding their miniatures, but holy shit....they need to use models that plastic glue works on (maybe this has changed the past few years) because between Deadzone and a box of undead I picked up for RPG models, they made me want to break shit.


I got a bunch of Marauders to use for Ork Boyz, my Testor's plastic glue worked just fine.  Maybe it was resin?  Plastic glue doesn't do anything to resin, you need cyanoacrylate -crazy glue.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

oggsmash

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« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2020, 12:39:47 PM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;1141551
I got a bunch of Marauders to use for Ork Boyz, my Testor's plastic glue worked just fine.  Maybe it was resin?  Plastic glue doesn't do anything to resin, you need cyanoacrylate -crazy glue.

  Yeah they were resin.  And crazy glue it was.  Can not recommend.   It was a few years back though, no idea what they are making them out of now, if it is plastic I may give them another try.  But the first deadzone and the box of undead I had 6 years ago were pains in the ass.

Cigalazade

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« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2020, 07:02:14 PM »
Some days I miss 40k, but the price per figure compared to historicals simply isn't worth it for me. Once in a while I'll pull out my Eldar and Space Marines to play a 5th edition game, that's about it. The rules bloat post 6th edition lost me as did the community obsession with metagaming and tournament play. Hope 9th gets people into wargaming in general, I guess.

Chivalric

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« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2020, 11:37:04 PM »
Price per figure for historicals is amazing.

As for 40k, the treadmill is real.  If you got back in with the launch of 8th, and played space marines (the most popular army) you are looking at:

rulebook
index imperium 1
codex space marines
chapter approved 2017
chapter approved 2018
chapter approved 2019
vigilus book
one or more psychic awakening books
codex space marines 2
a chapter specific supplement/codex

And with 9th, another rulebook, a new book with points changes, and coming in October, another Codex: Space Marines to start the cycle all over.

Cigalazade

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« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2020, 12:59:58 AM »
Quote from: Chivalric;1143352
Price per figure for historicals is amazing.

As for 40k, the treadmill is real.  If you got back in with the launch of 8th, and played space marines (the most popular army) you are looking at:

rulebook
index imperium 1
codex space marines
chapter approved 2017
chapter approved 2018
chapter approved 2019
vigilus book
one or more psychic awakening books
codex space marines 2
a chapter specific supplement/codex

And with 9th, another rulebook, a new book with points changes, and coming in October, another Codex: Space Marines to start the cycle all over.

Despite the price of all of this, I think that is precisely why the "GW hobby" appeals to so many because it gives a lot of structure. Historicals have a lot less structure because there are rules and figure manufacturers, and for the most party they stay separate. Warlord Games and FoW have similar business models to GW in terms of being a one stop shop for rules and figures..but even their prices are fairly reasonable. GW's diehard fans also have a habit of rationalizing the clear price gouging they engage in, something I've seen in few other fandoms. "You're paying for the IP, design, etc" seems like a good excuse if you have no other exposure to other wargames. Mantic/Kings of War has to create its own line of miniatures and their prices are relatively reasonable. If people want to spend the money on GW (their miniature lines are fantastic quality), by all means do it, but the constant defense of the company itself has always struck me as very odd.

RandyB

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« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2020, 08:43:53 AM »
Quote from: Cigalazade;1143357
Despite the price of all of this, I think that is precisely why the "GW hobby" appeals to so many because it gives a lot of structure. Historicals have a lot less structure because there are rules and figure manufacturers, and for the most party they stay separate. Warlord Games and FoW have similar business models to GW in terms of being a one stop shop for rules and figures..but even their prices are fairly reasonable. GW's diehard fans also have a habit of rationalizing the clear price gouging they engage in, something I've seen in few other fandoms. "You're paying for the IP, design, etc" seems like a good excuse if you have no other exposure to other wargames. Mantic/Kings of War has to create its own line of miniatures and their prices are relatively reasonable. If people want to spend the money on GW (their miniature lines are fantastic quality), by all means do it, but the constant defense of the company itself has always struck me as very odd.

The setting and lore. That's why. The depth and richness of the 40K setting rivals or exceeds the old Star Wars EU, or any other media property.

Yes, 40K shamelessly rips off anything and everything else, staying just within IP laws in doing so. That has only added to the richness.

Ghostmaker

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« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2020, 09:37:56 AM »
What's seriously chapping my ass right now is the paucity of any kits at all. I've found myself looking at third-party knockoff sites because neither Forge World nor GW have any models beyond basic bitch ass stuff.

RandyB

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« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2020, 10:34:18 AM »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1143533
What's seriously chapping my ass right now is the paucity of any kits at all. I've found myself looking at third-party knockoff sites because neither Forge World nor GW have any models beyond basic bitch ass stuff.

I've made the case elsewhere - the major downside to the richness of the setting is that there are too many factions for even adequate model support if any at all. Couple that with sales-driven product management and IP paranoia, and many factions languish with minimal support. Better to bite the bullet, take the fanrage hit, and write factions out of the setting. And I say that knowing that some of my favorite factions are among the top candidates for elimination.

Ratman_tf

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« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM »
Is the Covid lockdowns partly responsible? I managed to get a box of Battle Sisters but the supply has finally dried up.
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oggsmash

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« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2020, 05:31:34 PM »
Quote from: Cigalazade;1143104
Some days I miss 40k, but the price per figure compared to historicals simply isn't worth it for me. Once in a while I'll pull out my Eldar and Space Marines to play a 5th edition game, that's about it. The rules bloat post 6th edition lost me as did the community obsession with metagaming and tournament play. Hope 9th gets people into wargaming in general, I guess.


 Do you have any rule sets you prefer?  I have a box of Perry miniatures I got to get a mix of infantry for RPGs and the cost versus quality, sold me pretty well.  I almost got the Hail Caesar starter set numerous times walking by it at my FLGS.