Quote from: Brad;701922Do you understand how statistics work..?

This.

Quote from: jhkim;701940There is nothing anywhere in my copy of Burning Wheel that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the author is insane.

I've skimmed over some Crane videos on youtube there to see does his actual persona match his abrasive and poorly informed written commentary and to be honest, it doesn't. It's like two different people, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. So and this is just my guess, so he's managed to turn the greater internet fuckwad theory sans anonymity into not just a game design process but a hallmark of his "rock star developer" persona.

A man could be forgiven for lending credence to the possibility that such an individual mightn't be plugged into the right voltage. Not neccessarily clinically insane but certainly someone you wouldn't want round for dinner and pudding.

Quote from: jhkim;701940I can't speak for stuff that I haven't read, but I doubt that there is sufficient pretext in any game book for such a medical diagnosis.

Someone should have mentioned that to ronnie and the forgers, eh.

Wait, what? Rolling multiple times for extended tasks is GM abuse now? This sounds like another one of those things more easily solved by not playing with assholes.

Quote from: jhkim;701940And the Naga having sex with the magic-user can accurately be described as a sexual advance.

Um, dude, Luke accused the PLAYERS of doing that, not made up snake people. And "bullying" the player into accepting it.

" I read two men bullying a young woman to accept sexual advances."
-Luke Crane

QuoteDo you continue to claim that he accused Holmes of a felony?

Are you reading any of these posts you're responding to or just typing words at random?

QuoteMore to the point, you're being a sanctimonious, moralizing asshole - acting like you get to throw shit at people, and then demanding apologies from others for any slights against you or your point. Get the fuck over it.

In a court of law, the burden of proof is on the accuser. In any kind of classic debate, the burden of proof is on the person who starts the conversation by making a claim.

- This starts by Luke explicitly accusing Holmes of bullying a player into accepting sexual advances. Holmes didn't claim anything about Luke--he couldn't, he's dead.

I called Luke on that. And on several other things he said that you can prove wrong without even leaving your chair. My guess why he did this is: he's insane. If you can think of a more plausible reason to be that douchey, you might be right, let's hear it: but remember, it has to encompass all the crazy things I quoted him saying, not just one or two that you cherry pick. Maybe you'll be right.

-After I call Luke out for his bullshit, the next thing that happens is: You lied about two things I said. Again: I didn't do anything to you.

So I called you on that.

It's not a symmetrical situation. In both cases you (and Luke) are the person who started something from nothing.

Also, in both cases, I can defend what I'm saying with direct quotes and will answer your accusations. When you got caught lying you just glossed over it and started calling me names.

So: don't throw shit on people if you don't want people to notice that you did it and ask you what you're on about.

QuoteThere is nothing anywhere in my copy of Burning Wheel that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the author is insane. I can't speak for stuff that I haven't read, but I doubt that there is sufficient pretext in any game book for such a medical diagnosis.

You're entitled to your opinion. I quoted and linked. If you think saying things in public that are easily and provably inaccurate is totally legit, that's a position you're taking that I don't agree with. Enjoy that.

Quote from: Arduin;701943I read it.  There is NOTHING in it that is a crime (anywhere in the U.S. anyway).  So, what is all the noise about?

Zak is just being a drama queen and jhkim is being purposefully dense. Also, Luke Crane seems like a complete douchebag; can we all agree on that?

Quote from: Brad;701995Zak is just being a drama queen and jhkim is being purposefully dense. Also, Luke Crane seems like a complete douchebag; can we all agree on that?

I'll buy that.

Brad, Arduin, please stop bullying that girl into accepting your sexual advances.

Quote from: Zak S;702016Brad, Arduin, please stop bullying that girl into accepting your sexual advances.

:hmm:

Quote from: Arduin;702017:hmm:

That's crazy, right?

Right.

So: point made.

Quote from: Zak S;702018So: point made.

What point was that?

Zak does have a point. This:

Quote from: Zak S;701991" I read two men bullying a young woman to accept sexual advances."
-Luke Crane

This right here is badly fucked up.

Quote from: Arduin;702019What point was that?

That's a crazy thing to say. Even on the internet where you can do crazy things and 2 pages later everybody forgets and is bitching at everybody about some whole new other thing they made up to bitch about.

So: Luke's crazy. But Luke was crazy more than 2 pages ago so everybody forgot.

Quote from: Zak S;702021That's a crazy thing to say. Even on the internet where you can do crazy things and 2 pages later everybody forgets and is bitching at everybody about some whole new other thing they made up to bitch about.

So: Luke's crazy. But Luke was crazy more than 2 pages ago so everybody forgot.

Sorry.  Lots on my mind and little sleep.  Forgive me.

I've played Torchbearer. It wasn't more fun than OD&D so I doubt I'd invest in it.

I'm a little interested to see how they handle Levels 6-10 - 'your Domain gets a condition after 5 turns' or whatever.

Quote from: jhkim;701862The quote in question was from Holmes' 1980 article,  "Confessions of a Dungeon Master":

That is some really shitty GM'ing. The players could, and should, have been trusted to handle that situation on their own.

Quote from: Brad;701995Zak is just being a drama queen and jhkim is being purposefully dense. Also, Luke Crane seems like a complete douchebag; can we all agree on that?

Sure - I can agree to that.

On a genuine content thing - I note is that my copy of Burning Wheel is the revised edition from 2005. I've now looked at a pirate copy of the original edition, which does have more douchebaggy statements - though still nothing I'd call insane. For example, he calls constant demand for re-rolls a "common problem with GMs" - but he does not claim that any re-rolls are always this problem, and he eliminated that language from the revised edition.

Quote from: Zak S;701991Um, dude, Luke accused the PLAYERS of doing that, not made up snake people. And "bullying" the player into accepting it.

" I read two men bullying a young woman to accept sexual advances."
-Luke Crane

From context, he is clearly not saying that the two of them bullied Cicely into physically having sex with the player. He is claiming that the two men (DM and player) in real life bullied the young woman to accept her character having sex with his character, which he describes as a sexual advance.

I don't agree with him that such bullying necessarily took place. However, if there was a situation where a teenage girl was bullied into accepting in-character sex, I agree that it would be (a) wrong; and (b) reasonably described as a sexual advance even though it did not involve physical groping.