Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 03, 2024, 01:24:09 AMI first got a whiff of this stink when I heard they were removing the Rommel tank from the game.  I suppose the historical name of Erwin Rommel as a general for the wrong army was all it took to offend somebody in HR department.

The Rommel isn't going into any future products, but they didn't remove it from existing products. It still appears in TR: 3039 and a variant in TR: Prototypes. So while it's not going to get any new coverage, it's still in the game if you want to play it.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2024, 04:03:02 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 03, 2024, 01:24:09 AMI first got a whiff of this stink when I heard they were removing the Rommel tank from the game.  I suppose the historical name of Erwin Rommel as a general for the wrong army was all it took to offend somebody in HR department.

The Rommel isn't going into any future products, but they didn't remove it from existing products. It still appears in TR: 3039 and a variant in TR: Prototypes. So while it's not going to get any new coverage, it's still in the game if you want to play it.

They also didn't send the cops to take your old books/miniatures and replace them for new editions without it...

Battletech seems like a really easy IP to spin-off. Ctrl+F Steiner -> Replace with -> SomeOtherName, rinse and repeat.

Joking obviously, but realistically, bitching & moaning about Battletech being owned by a shite company doesn't do much and the simplest and easiest solution is just for fans to rally around an IP made by a fan, taking the best elements and adding some innovation and freshness on top. (I always disliked the Clans, so I would probably downplay & give them more interesting twist in a spinoff, for example).

Quote from: Zelen on May 12, 2024, 09:36:39 PMBattletech seems like a really easy IP to spin-off. Ctrl+F Steiner -> Replace with -> SomeOtherName, rinse and repeat.

Joking obviously, but realistically, bitching & moaning about Battletech being owned by a shite company doesn't do much and the simplest and easiest solution is just for fans to rally around an IP made by a fan, taking the best elements and adding some innovation and freshness on top. (I always disliked the Clans, so I would probably downplay & give them more interesting twist in a spinoff, for example).

Exactly. I don't understand why fans aren't making their own IPs. Are they just not creative and committed enough to try?

Mecha is not a hard genre to make. Japan churns out disposable mecha anime by the truckload. Mechs are versatile and can be used for combat, construction, sports, etc. Not to mention that you can do any regular plot that involves humans and the scifi genre. Slice of life, romance, mystery, bug hunt, bug war, war against space elves, the war of earthly aggression, psychic powers, espionage, etc.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 13, 2024, 08:28:45 AM

Quote from: Zelen on May 12, 2024, 09:36:39 PMBattletech seems like a really easy IP to spin-off. Ctrl+F Steiner -> Replace with -> SomeOtherName, rinse and repeat.

Joking obviously, but realistically, bitching & moaning about Battletech being owned by a shite company doesn't do much and the simplest and easiest solution is just for fans to rally around an IP made by a fan, taking the best elements and adding some innovation and freshness on top. (I always disliked the Clans, so I would probably downplay & give them more interesting twist in a spinoff, for example).

Exactly. I don't understand why fans aren't making their own IPs. Are they just not creative and committed enough to try?

Mecha is not a hard genre to make. Japan churns out disposable mecha anime by the truckload. Mechs are versatile and can be used for combat, construction, sports, etc. Not to mention that you can do any regular plot that involves humans and the scifi genre. Slice of life, romance, mystery, bug hunt, bug war, war against space elves, the war of earthly aggression, psychic powers, espionage, etc.

Battletech may attract its players with the big stompy robots, but what tends to keep (most of) them is the huge body of fiction. Not every piece may be a winner, but there is plenty to choose from between game books and pure fiction (novels, Shrapnel magazine, etc.). It would be crazy to think that a fan-made IP could even come close to this level of development without decades of work by a great many people.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 13, 2024, 08:56:03 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 13, 2024, 08:28:45 AM

Quote from: Zelen on May 12, 2024, 09:36:39 PMBattletech seems like a really easy IP to spin-off. Ctrl+F Steiner -> Replace with -> SomeOtherName, rinse and repeat.

Joking obviously, but realistically, bitching & moaning about Battletech being owned by a shite company doesn't do much and the simplest and easiest solution is just for fans to rally around an IP made by a fan, taking the best elements and adding some innovation and freshness on top. (I always disliked the Clans, so I would probably downplay & give them more interesting twist in a spinoff, for example).

Exactly. I don't understand why fans aren't making their own IPs. Are they just not creative and committed enough to try?

Mecha is not a hard genre to make. Japan churns out disposable mecha anime by the truckload. Mechs are versatile and can be used for combat, construction, sports, etc. Not to mention that you can do any regular plot that involves humans and the scifi genre. Slice of life, romance, mystery, bug hunt, bug war, war against space elves, the war of earthly aggression, psychic powers, espionage, etc.

Battletech may attract its players with the big stompy robots, but what tends to keep (most of) them is the huge body of fiction. Not every piece may be a winner, but there is plenty to choose from between game books and pure fiction (novels, Shrapnel magazine, etc.). It would be crazy to think that a fan-made IP could even come close to this level of development without decades of work by a great many people.

No shit, Sherlock. But the fans don't have a choice in the matter. They can either suck woke nazi dick and complain about it like entitled sheeple brats, or they can man up and invest in new IPs that take time to cultivate. I have zero patience or sympathy for these idiots anymore.

It's never a good idea to invest your personality in IP monopolies subject to corporate whims, and now the fans are suffering the well-deserved consequences of their bad decisions. I have seen every single IP I was even vaguely interested in get arbitrarily killed or driven into the ground and then killed. Novelty and creativity has been strangled and replaced with cargo cult nostalgia and leftoid fascism. I have been saying for decades now that we need to decentralize IPs and reform copyright for precisely these reasons, but nobody listened to me then or now. It's so fucking obnoxious that I can't even feel schadenfreude anymore.

"But what about the lore?!" Fuck lore. I've come to despise the entire concept of lore. I don't even write lore in my original fiction because I hate it so much. Lore is cancer. We need to move past the obsession with lore and focus on things that actually matter, like gameplay or plotting.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 13, 2024, 08:56:03 AMBattletech may attract its players with the big stompy robots, but what tends to keep (most of) them is the huge body of fiction. Not every piece may be a winner, but there is plenty to choose from between game books and pure fiction (novels, Shrapnel magazine, etc.). It would be crazy to think that a fan-made IP could even come close to this level of development without decades of work by a great many people.

What I've found over the years is that the people who read the lore books are not the same as the people who play the game. There is some crossover, sure, but the people who are mainly interested in the game want a good game, not expansive lore.

The biggest aspect of having large amount of lore is that there are more people familiar with the franchise so it is easier to attract new players. But, at the same time, the lore-readers are the main ones demanding that the lore be made more woke and inclusive with little concern for any established canon or how the changes affect game play. So it's a double-edge sword.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on May 13, 2024, 10:24:48 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 13, 2024, 08:56:03 AMBattletech may attract its players with the big stompy robots, but what tends to keep (most of) them is the huge body of fiction. Not every piece may be a winner, but there is plenty to choose from between game books and pure fiction (novels, Shrapnel magazine, etc.). It would be crazy to think that a fan-made IP could even come close to this level of development without decades of work by a great many people.

What I've found over the years is that the people who read the lore books are not the same as the people who play the game. There is some crossover, sure, but the people who are mainly interested in the game want a good game, not expansive lore.

The biggest aspect of having large amount of lore is that there are more people familiar with the franchise so it is easier to attract new players. But, at the same time, the lore-readers are the main ones demanding that the lore be made more woke and inclusive with little concern for any established canon or how the changes affect game play. So it's a double-edge sword.

And now that free wikis and lore vids are a thing, most of them don't even buy the books anymore but still act entitled to the IP.

Re: The players don't care about the lore...

There's so much wrong with this

The two "oldest" and biggest wargames today are WH40K & Battletech, what do they have in common? Deep lore.

The lore sells itself and the game and plastic, try introducing a new faction by just dropping the army books with pure stats.

Now even OPR Grimdark Future has it's first lore book. Guess they all failed market research.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2024, 12:22:57 PMRe: The players don't care about the lore...

There's so much wrong with this

The two "oldest" and biggest wargames today are WH40K & Battletech, what do they have in common? Deep lore.

The lore sells itself and the game and plastic, try introducing a new faction by just dropping the army books with pure stats.

Now even OPR Grimdark Future has it's first lore book. Guess they all failed market research.

There are different ways that people enjoy lore. After seeing it self-destruct dozens of times in every single IP I ever showed interest in, and being cyberbullied by lore worshipers in some fandoms, I no longer give a flying fuck about lore. These writers don't give a fuck about their continuity, and toxic fans use it as an excuse to bully people for wrongthink, so why should I care? Bring on the multiverse shenanigans!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 13, 2024, 03:01:02 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2024, 12:22:57 PMRe: The players don't care about the lore...

There's so much wrong with this

The two "oldest" and biggest wargames today are WH40K & Battletech, what do they have in common? Deep lore.

The lore sells itself and the game and plastic, try introducing a new faction by just dropping the army books with pure stats.

Now even OPR Grimdark Future has it's first lore book. Guess they all failed market research.

There are different ways that people enjoy lore. After seeing it self-destruct dozens of times in every single IP I ever showed interest in, and being cyberbullied by lore worshipers in some fandoms, I no longer give a flying fuck about lore. These writers don't give a fuck about their continuity, and toxic fans use it as an excuse to bully people for wrongthink, so why should I care? Bring on the multiverse shenanigans!

You're exercising your God given right to not give a flying fuck about whatever you choose not to.

Doesn't mean the rest of us have to follow you or that those of us who do care are "toxic" (whatever that means).

Me caring about the lore doesn't mean also I have to keep giving my hard earned pesos to whatever corporation that has shown they don't care about their IP and hate the very same people that kept them going for decades.

Which is why I stopped buying anything from DC/Marvel, fuck them in the ass with a barbwire wrapped baseball bat. SIDEWAYS!

Which is why I advocate for people to buy a 3d printer and stop giving money to GW/Catalyst/whoever.

Furthermore people should dump their games and start playing something else similar enough to scratch that itch, like Grimdark Future.

My stance is that lore is incredibly important, but anyone who cares about lore at this point should see the writing on the wall for Battletech.

It's a lot less damaging for "the lore" to accept a spin-off with renamed factions + characters that keeps the underlying themes, tone, style, than to continue on supporting a game/IP which is compromised by malicious actors whose expressed goals are to subvert that story/setting.

Quote from: Zelen on May 13, 2024, 09:22:41 PMMy stance is that lore is incredibly important, but anyone who cares about lore at this point should see the writing on the wall for Battletech.

It's a lot less damaging for "the lore" to accept a spin-off with renamed factions + characters that keeps the underlying themes, tone, style, than to continue on supporting a game/IP which is compromised by malicious actors whose expressed goals are to subvert that story/setting.

100% Let Catalyst and it's IP burn, make a new thing or embrace an existing one, if possible one that (while keeping the game free from IRL politics) is made by explicitly anti-woke people.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 13, 2024, 03:01:02 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2024, 12:22:57 PMRe: The players don't care about the lore...

There's so much wrong with this

The two "oldest" and biggest wargames today are WH40K & Battletech, what do they have in common? Deep lore.

The lore sells itself and the game and plastic, try introducing a new faction by just dropping the army books with pure stats.

Now even OPR Grimdark Future has it's first lore book. Guess they all failed market research.

There are different ways that people enjoy lore. After seeing it self-destruct dozens of times in every single IP I ever showed interest in, and being cyberbullied by lore worshipers in some fandoms, I no longer give a flying fuck about lore. These writers don't give a fuck about their continuity, and toxic fans use it as an excuse to bully people for wrongthink, so why should I care? Bring on the multiverse shenanigans!

OK, so what they did with their property hurt your feelings and you want to lash out against them in impotent rage. Sorry you feel that way.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2024, 10:50:04 PM

Quote from: Zelen on May 13, 2024, 09:22:41 PMMy stance is that lore is incredibly important, but anyone who cares about lore at this point should see the writing on the wall for Battletech.

It's a lot less damaging for "the lore" to accept a spin-off with renamed factions + characters that keeps the underlying themes, tone, style, than to continue on supporting a game/IP which is compromised by malicious actors whose expressed goals are to subvert that story/setting.

100% Let Catalyst and it's IP burn, make a new thing or embrace an existing one, if possible one that (while keeping the game free from IRL politics) is made by explicitly anti-woke people.

If it's free from IRL politics, then why would it matter who it's made by?