The party game "Aye, Dark Overlord" is actually an RPG.

jeff37923 · September 03, 2009, 04:10:07 PM

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;326585Of course it is a roleplaying game. It is a game; you are required to play a role. There's even a GM. The Aye, Dark Master variant looks like more of a card game along the lines of Bang! to me, which fails the "required" test (Universalis fails that, too, which gives me pause).

By these standards, then CLUE should be a role-playing game.

jrients · September 03, 2009, 04:10:20 PM

Looks like a game what with the roleplaying to me. I'm suspicious of its lack of dice, but it looks like an RPG.

Also, there's a blue chick in a bikini on one of the cards. That's worth bonus points in my estimation.

MarionPoliquin · September 03, 2009, 04:15:44 PM

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326586I can describe my past actions in Overlord just as I like. Play takes the form of a roleplaying scene where the roleplay relates to a free-ranging flashback. Are flashback scenes with fixed ends, but not fixed action, not-roleplaying?

That's not roleplaying, that's storytelling. You're telling a story to get your arse out of a bind. Was Scheherazade a roleplayer?

QuoteSo. Individual character goals matter? Why?

Of course individual character goals matter - to the player. I think it's fairly easy to see why a character's goals (or the player's goals for the character) matter to that character's player. I would be much more interested in your explanation of why an individual character's goals shouldn't matter in a roleplaying game.

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:18:24 PM

Jeff: (of the numbers)

So, if I'm getting your line:

To be an RPG, you must not only have a role, but the role must possess a certain degree of depth, and if you cannot interact with that setting around the character openly, you can't seriously "roleplay" your role.

If that doesn't quite fit, could you reword it to fit?

Jason Morningstar · September 03, 2009, 04:18:38 PM

Come on, Levi, we both know that characters don't exist. They don't have goals, players do.

Jeff37923, there's more to "you are required to play a role" than being assigned a name. You can skate through a game of Clue or Monopoly without actively portraying a bloated plutocrat or Miss Scarlet, but you can't play ADO without getting into character, at least a little. You must narrate, you must grovel.

I don't buy any argument predicated on "not enough". Who decides?

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:21:30 PM

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326601That's not roleplaying, that's storytelling. You're telling a story to get your arse out of a bind. Was Scheherazade a roleplayer?

When the lady in question spoke as if she was Ali Baba, sure. If she never did make with the funny voices, then no.

That's "playing a role", however limited.

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:22:33 PM

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;326603Who decides?

The Dark Overlord, that's who.

jeff37923 · September 03, 2009, 04:22:52 PM

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326602Jeff: (of the numbers)

So, if I'm getting your line:

To be an RPG, you must not only have a role, but the role must possess a certain degree of depth, and if you cannot interact with that setting around the character openly, you can't seriously "roleplay" your role.

If that doesn't quite fit, could you reword it to fit?

That is pretty close, but the role also has to be one chosen by the Player themselves, and preferably created by the Player.

"To be an RPG, you must not only have a role, but the role must possess a certain degree of depth, and if you cannot interact with that setting around the character beyond a certain degree of complexity, you cannot "roleplay" your role, which was chosen or created by the Player."

Try that, see how it works.

jrients · September 03, 2009, 04:25:57 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;326610That is pretty close, but the role also has to be one chosen by the Player themselves, and preferably created by the Player.

I've run con games where I passed out pre-fabs and players got no choice in the matter. I'm pretty sure roleplaying happened.

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:29:00 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;326610"To be an RPG, you must not only have a role, but the role must possess a certain degree of depth, and if you cannot interact with that setting around the character beyond a certain degree of complexity, you cannot "roleplay" your role, which was chosen or created by the Player."

Try that, see how it works.

Awesome.

How much depth and complexity? Got any guidelines or "tells"?

(Note again: I'm not agreeing with you, exactly. But I don't think it bites it's own tail all that much, either.)

jeff37923 · September 03, 2009, 04:30:33 PM

Quote from: jrients;326611I've run con games where I passed out pre-fabs and players got no choice in the matter. I'm pretty sure roleplaying happened.

I agree, but you must also agree that if given the chance, most Players prefer to create their own characters and not use pre-gens. Convention games are very time-limited and are played differently than home games.

MarionPoliquin · September 03, 2009, 04:33:12 PM

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326607When the lady in question spoke as if she was Ali Baba, sure. If she never did make with the funny voices, then no.

That's "playing a role", however limited.

Does the act of telling a story constitute in itself roleplaying? No it doesn't.

A game in which players need to outdo each other at telling the best story and can do nothing else isn't a roleplaying game, it's a storytelling game.

jrients · September 03, 2009, 04:34:35 PM

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326616A game in which players need to outdo each other at telling the best story and can do nothing else isn't a roleplaying game, it's a storytelling game.

Okay, this is the first good against argument I've seen.

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:34:48 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;326614I agree, but you must also agree that if given the chance, most Players prefer to create their own characters and not use pre-gens.

Hmm?

We were talking requirements to qualify, that kind of thing, here, weren't we?

A preference isn't a requirement, man.

jeff37923 · September 03, 2009, 04:35:33 PM

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326616Does the act of telling a story constitute in itself roleplaying? No it doesn't.

A game in which players need to outdo each other at telling the best story and can do nothing else isn't a roleplaying game, it's a storytelling game.

This guy gets it and can explain it better than I.