Quote from: Strato;574043I am new to this forum so please bear with me if I make a mistake.

I wrote the Rules of Standard Backgammon for my online backgammon magazine and believe I covered some doubts that new players can encounter while playing the game.

The rules are at this link http://www.gammonlife.com/rules/backgammon-rules.htm and in the section called "Starting a Game – Moving the Checkers" you'll probably want to read the part about how one "must use the exact numbers".

Another item that is rarely, if ever, mentioned in the rules you will get with a new board, is the part about "The Bear Off Process", read the last two paragraphs in that section at the mentioned link.

As for the discussion as to whether Backgammon is a game of luck or skill, the answer is that while there is an element of luck (because of the dice) Backgammon is mostly a game of skill. Think of this, if you roll two numbers on a pair of dice and have 15 checkers you can choose from to move, which checker(s) should you play to make the best move with those numbers?

Technically speaking, there is really only one best move, and if you study the game and its strategy, you might get the move right.

We can learn what the best move for any position is by using programs (bots) created through neural networks (AI) to analyze backgammon positions. However, with the game having billions of possible positions that can come up, a human can never learn them all to become a true master of the game - there is always a new challenge to face in every game.

However, at this time and because of bots, avid players can learn how to correctly play the first roll of the game, the second roll, third, etc. and thus play the early part of the game perfectly. This give you an advantage over someone who has not studied the opening rolls, thus helping you to win more games.

But even if a player does play a position that give him the most equity, his opponent could still get a lucky roll and turn the game around. This makes backgammon a fantastic game of skill, luck and fun - because the luck part allows even a beginner of the game to sometimes win against an expert player and encourage him to keep on playing and learning the game.

Excellent post; thank you very much, and welcome to theRPGsite!

RPGPundit

Again...having strategic elements does not make it a "strategy game."

Chess is a strategy game, no doubt about that. However, my point was that to some uninformed newbs the articles I found on the internet seemed to indicate Backgammon was a "strategy game." When in fact, it's a gambling game.

If I had absolutely no idea about Blackjack, and went to a book store, I would likely come away thinking Blackjack was a strategy game, when it is clearly not. You can have a strategy when you play it, but that doesn't make it a strategy game.

If you disagree with that, then you and I are clearly worlds apart on what games are and there's no point in even discussing it. I'm not really sure why I can't seem to get my point across here, but I apologize if I am not being clear enough.

QuoteTechnically speaking, there is really only one best move, and if you study the game and its strategy, you might get the move right.

That's not a strategy game. Making the correct choice, is no more a strategy than drawing the right color in Candy Land, or playing the only legal card in your hand in Euchre. Those aren't strategies. It doesn't make it a bad game, it just means it's not a "strategy game." There's isn't one single right move in chess, there are a myriad of ways you can win, and many times there are several different paths to take to victory from a given position.

Hi Pariah74,

I guess we all have our own definitions of what is a game of strategy. One of the definitions of the word, related to what I am talking about, is "a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result."

To win a game of Backgammon, the goal is to be the first player to get all of your 15 checkers off the board but it is not always just a race, there is a lot of skill involved.

For example, in the game of Snakes and Ladders, you have one checker to move around the board, whatever number you roll, there is no choice, you move that one checker the number rolled, and must advance to a certain spot, from where you might either be helped or hindered by ladders and snakes. No strategy whatsoever. It is a game enjoyed by children, and the only skills needed are to know how to count and how to be observant.

In Backgammon, as a game unfolds, you need to choose a game plan, if it looks like the current game is a race, then you do race. However, if you are behind in the race (because your opponent rolled higher numbers than you), then you have to hang back somewhere and try to either slow down your opponent by blocking him or wait for a chance to try and hit one or more of his checkers and send the checker(s) to what is called the Bar, from where a checker must re-circulate back around the board from the furthest part of the board.

Here are some of the strategies used in Backgammon:

Priming - which is to build a wall of checkers that will hamper your opponent from escaping from your home board while you advance. A prime will also slow him down in the race. Building the wall of checkers involves using your dice rolls tactically to fill in points on the board.

Blitzing - an all out attack on your opponents blots, sometime a risky tactic that can backfire. By blitzing an opponent you can win a double or triple game, a good strategy to use when behind in the score of a match, example in a match of 7 points, losing 5 to 3, you might want to blitz your opponent at the beginning of the game and go for the gammon (double game) or backgammon triple game).

Going for the Advanced Anchor - positioning your furthest checkers on an advanced point in your opponent's home board from where they can easily escape with dice rolls, such as double 5s or double 6s. There are certain "splitting" plays one can make with certain numbers rolled, to accomplish that goal.

Not to make this post too long, here is a list of some other strategies one must consider using, depending on what is going on in the game:

- Duplication
- Diversification
- End-Contact Positions
- Using the Doubling Cube
- How to play a Backgame
- Prime Vs. Prime
- To Build or Split with your checkers
- Attacking Priorities
- How to play a Holding Game

You can look these up on the Internet and find articles written by pro players on how to handle these situations.

There are also many books on the strategy one must employ in backgammon. One of the best books written earlier in this century is called Backgammon Boot Camp by the late Walter Trice.

A seasoned backgammon player will recognize what kind of a game he is in and try to use the correct strategy to win it.

So it's not just rolling dice and running around the board with your checkers, it's recognizing which game plan should be use.

Oh, as to the part that Backgammon is a gambling game, that's not always true, millions of people play Backgammon everyday for fun. It is very popular in Turkey, Iran and the Middle East.

In Greece, it is the National Pastime, I took a survey there in 2007, and can tell you that over 80% of the population know the game and that between 60 to 70 per cent of the people play it regularly, and not for money. Probably less than 1% of all the backgammon players in the world, play backgammon for money.

Again, a really excellent post.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Pariah74;574917Again...having strategic elements does not make it a "strategy game."

Chess is a strategy game, no doubt about that. However, my point was that to some uninformed newbs the articles I found on the internet seemed to indicate Backgammon was a "strategy game." When in fact, it's a gambling game.

If I had absolutely no idea about Blackjack, and went to a book store, I would likely come away thinking Blackjack was a strategy game, when it is clearly not. You can have a strategy when you play it, but that doesn't make it a strategy game.

If you disagree with that, then you and I are clearly worlds apart on what games are and there's no point in even discussing it. I'm not really sure why I can't seem to get my point across here, but I apologize if I am not being clear enough.



That's not a strategy game. Making the correct choice, is no more a strategy than drawing the right color in Candy Land, or playing the only legal card in your hand in Euchre. Those aren't strategies. It doesn't make it a bad game, it just means it's not a "strategy game." There's isn't one single right move in chess, there are a myriad of ways you can win, and many times there are several different paths to take to victory from a given position.

Dude I have played backgammon in bars from London, to Cairo, from Istanbul to Muscat. I have been playing backgammon since I was 8 and in a game against an average Turkish player, by which I mean a guy that plays a few games in the street every day I will win 1 game in 5 so .... backgammon has strategy because to play well you need to make decisions based on what will happen in 3 turns time. If I do this that will lead to this and then my opponent can do this etc .... Predicting the variabliity of a dice roll to give you an advantage is part of the strategy. If I am exposed to an oponent that rolls a 6 I know my risks of exposure are c. 30% because the chance of them rolling a 6 on 2d6 are about 30% if that move improves my position by 50% then its worth the risk. Its the same as poker, magic or any other game of predictable chance. The strategy is looking at the relative balance of probability and then taking risks, or strategems, based on those relative probabilities.

Quote from: jibbajibba;575103Dude I have played backgammon in bars from London, to Cairo, from Istanbul to Muscat. I have been playing backgammon since I was 8 and in a game against an average Turkish player, by which I mean a guy that plays a few games in the street every day I will win 1 game in 5 so .... backgammon has strategy because to play well you need to make decisions based on what will happen in 3 turns time. If I do this that will lead to this and then my opponent can do this etc .... Predicting the variabliity of a dice roll to give you an advantage is part of the strategy. If I am exposed to an oponent that rolls a 6 I know my risks of exposure are c. 30% because the chance of them rolling a 6 on 2d6 are about 30% if that move improves my position by 50% then its worth the risk. Its the same as poker, magic or any other game of predictable chance. The strategy is looking at the relative balance of probability and then taking risks, or strategems, based on those relative probabilities.

Well what do you know?

If you ever come to Montevideo we'll have to do some serious backgammoning.  Mind you, as some of my friends/victims will attest, I can easily play backgammon for 8 hours at a stretch, so long as the pipes don't run out.

RPGPundit

I don't have much to add other than the general agreement that Backgammon is a fun game.

I do remember hearing of a court case where someone got off a gambling charge related to Backgammon because he convinced a judge that Backgammon was a game of skill more than luck.  It was from an old Games magazine, however, so I don't have any supporting data on my anecdote.

Quote from: jcfiala;579050I do remember hearing of a court case where someone got off a gambling charge related to Backgammon because he convinced a judge that Backgammon was a game of skill more than luck.  It was from an old Games magazine, however, so I don't have any supporting data on my anecdote.

A quick Google brings up these:

http://www.bkgm.com/articles/BackgammonTimes/LuckVsSkill-TrialOfTedBarr/index.html

http://www.bkgm.com/articles/Levi/LuckVsSkill-BackgammonOnTheBoardwalk/index.html