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Author Topic: Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?  (Read 1151 times)

Age of Fable

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What the heading says.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 08:49:44 AM by Age of Fable »
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Gabriel2

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2008, 12:41:21 PM »
1. Eliminate the middle track.  Or provide a distinct reason for using it.

The middle track just has greater threats for no greater reward than the outer track.  Therefore, most players completely ignore it.  The only time they enter this section of the board is when they're on their way to the crown of command and ready to take on the endgame anyway.

As it stands, it's an extraneous bit of the game which increases the already high tedium level for no purpose whatsoever, and should be completely dispensed with.

It could be possibly reworked into something better.  The outer track could be a sort of "low level character" area while the middle track could have a different monster and treasure deck making it a higher level area with higher level rewards.  This could also conceivably fix some of the problems of the early game with players drawing all the high level monsters and dying all the time without any chance of progression.  It would also put the most potent treasures in another deck so a player didn't have to kill some extremely weak monster and get the soul drinker sword as their reward.

2. Change the endgame drastically.

While Talisman's early game is at least an arguably fun race around the board to get experience and treasure, the endgame is an exercise in frustration.

Once again, let me summarize the endgame:

One player finally gets bored of wandering around the outer board.  They get tired and decide to go for the crown of command and win the game.  They do this and then must roll the die to get the other players to "submit or die".  However, this never kills anyone.  So, the game continues as the other players continue leveling up on the outer map for another hour or so.  Finally, they decide to proceed to the crown of command and attack the initial player.  The initial player now has no defense against this because they other players will have almost certainly boosted their abilities beyond his.  The end result is a progression of players taking the crown of command and then losing it to the next player.  The first player to the crown of command NEVER wins the game.  In fact, the player who almost always wins the game is the player who drew the game out the longest and attempted the endgame after everyone else.

From what exists of the endgame, it's obviously supposed to inspire players to extreme level of conflict.  I suggest turning the inner track to yet another track with a monster and treasure deck, although with no healing sorts of items and no escape.  Turn the inner track into a deathmatch zone with lots of opportunities for players to land on each other and kill/steal from each other.  This endgame is started whenever a player gets the requisitie items and decides to move there.  Everyone is teleported to the final zone and the slaughter begins.  Any character killed is out of the game at this point.  The last player left standing becomes the overlord.

3. Add some kind of skill component.

Talisman has very few player interaction components.  The Prophetess is the most popular character because it's one of the few elements of the game where player choice makes any difference at all.  For the most part, Talisman is just rolling the d6 over and over for about 6 hours with no real player input.

I'm not sure what could really help this aspect of the game, short of scrapping it and starting over from scratch.  I'm tempted to suggest more card mechanics so a player can manage his combat and movement ability more effectively.  Then there would be some kind of player input as to whether they would push themselves or not.  Players with better cards in their hands would eagerly face greater dangers, while players with worse cards would try playing things safe until they could improve their hand.  Perhaps movement and combat could be related.  Players with good combat cards would have fewer choices of movement and would have to simply accept what they ran up against.  Players with bad combat cards would have greater mobility and would find it easier to evade other players and bad encounters.
 

Age of Fable

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 06:22:10 PM »
It also sounds like you want it to be a lot shorter.
free resources:
Teleleli The people, places, gods and monsters of the great city of Teleleli and the islands around.
Age of Fable 'Online gamebook', in the style of Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf and Fabled Lands.
Tables for Fables Random charts for any fantasy RPG rules.
Fantasy Adventure Ideas Generator
Cyberpunk/fantasy/pulp/space opera/superhero/western Plot Generator.
Cute Board Heroes Paper 'miniatures'.
Map Generator
Dungeon generator for Basic D&D or Tunnels & Trolls.

jcfiala
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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2008, 06:50:04 PM »
I'm currently scratching my Talisman itch with Runebound, so let me list what I think Runebound does right that Talisman should do:

1) More control over where you can go - in Talisman you roll a number, and then your choice is effectively left or right.
2) More control over how difficult a challenge you're fighting - in Talisman, you have no idea if you're going to reveal a Strength 2 goblin or a Strength 11 Dragon.  
3) More tactical choice about what to do during a fight.  For a number of the characters, fighting a monster is mostly... roll 2d6 + stat, and see if you win.
4) Definate endgame with something to do to finish the game.  In most games, there's a moment where you realize the game is going to end, and it's up to the people closest to that end to sieze victory.  In Talisman, the endgame is when you roll randomly to scratch someone to death before he gets annoyed and tries to kill you off.  Some of the alternate endings weren't too bad - wasn't there one where you just had to kill a final dragon to win?

One thing that Talisman really does do well is the gonzo wierdness and randomness of what may happen - Is it a pool of life, a wandering peddler who's set up here, or what?  Who knows?
 

Spinachcat

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2008, 09:18:25 PM »
MIDDLE TRACK
The middle track needs a rework.  I like the crazy randomness of the game and I would not want that balanced because Talisman is all about the gonzo.   It's beer & pretzels and should not lose that flavor.   That said, the middle track does not offer enough reason to exist other than a brief stop before the endgame.   I would want to see it develop more flavor.

SPEED OF PLAY
Talisman needs to become a 60 minute game.   That's the future of boardgames.  

MORE PLAYER CONTROL
I would add a tactical hand of cards that allow the player to modify the dice more than just their equipment.  Maybe this becomes another resource.  It would make combat more interesting - especially because you could have every card have a Hero Side and a Monster Side.   You would use the Hero side to help your character, but other players could help the monster beat you up with their Monster side card bonuses.

ENDGAME
The "scratch you to death" option of the Crown of Command never worked for our group.  In our games, if you had the Crown, you did 1D6 damage to each player outside the Zone.  This rule made games end quicker. Gabriel2's idea of teleported everyone to the slaughter zone is great.   I may do that for my next game.

Gabriel2

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 02:55:47 PM »
The link below talks about the cancelled XBox Live Arcade version of Talisman, but it's a pretty good summation of Talisman's main crippling flaw.

Quote

When you try and recreate a great gaming experience like this, there are critical things that you need to take into consideration which we didn't think fully through. When we set out to make the game, we assumed that people would want to play through a whole campaign in one sitting, so we only had the save system in the single player version. We looked at the other games on XBLA and PSN and realized that very few people were willing to sit and play a game for more than an hour. With a regular Talisman match coming in between 3-5 hours, this created an issue with how we would make the game fun and engaging for that whole time.

Talisman itself is a turn-based game, and on each turn there are quite a few decisions the player can make. As we continued to refine the concept of the game, we realized that the average gamer needed at least 60 seconds per turn to roll their dice, choose their direction, and then choose how to interact with the space they landed on. That meant that in a six player game, you would spend 80 percent of the time not doing anything.


http://giantrealm.gameriot.com/gaming/talisman-what-went-wrong
 

Age of Fable

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 06:13:13 PM »
How would you reduce downtime?

Maybe other players can somehow influence the monsters you meet?
free resources:
Teleleli The people, places, gods and monsters of the great city of Teleleli and the islands around.
Age of Fable 'Online gamebook', in the style of Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf and Fabled Lands.
Tables for Fables Random charts for any fantasy RPG rules.
Fantasy Adventure Ideas Generator
Cyberpunk/fantasy/pulp/space opera/superhero/western Plot Generator.
Cute Board Heroes Paper 'miniatures'.
Map Generator
Dungeon generator for Basic D&D or Tunnels & Trolls.

jcfiala
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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 06:23:19 PM »
Quote from: Age of Fable;265399
How would you reduce downtime?

Maybe other players can somehow influence the monsters you meet?


Hmm.  If players had the ability to interrupt/influence a turn, that would be fun.  Munchkin gives people lots of cards that let you buff a monster or a character, and gives you the ability to join in on fights, which keeps people interested.
 

Age of Fable

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2008, 12:07:25 AM »
I like one element from Vampire: the Eternal Struggle, a collectible card game I used to play.

In that game, everyone's trying to eliminate the player sitting to their left.

A popular variant of Risk does a similar thing.
free resources:
Teleleli The people, places, gods and monsters of the great city of Teleleli and the islands around.
Age of Fable 'Online gamebook', in the style of Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf and Fabled Lands.
Tables for Fables Random charts for any fantasy RPG rules.
Fantasy Adventure Ideas Generator
Cyberpunk/fantasy/pulp/space opera/superhero/western Plot Generator.
Cute Board Heroes Paper 'miniatures'.
Map Generator
Dungeon generator for Basic D&D or Tunnels & Trolls.

Age of Fable

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2008, 01:02:02 AM »
Quote from: jcfiala;265408
Hmm.  If players had the ability to interrupt/influence a turn, that would be fun.  Munchkin gives people lots of cards that let you buff a monster or a character, and gives you the ability to join in on fights, which keeps people interested.

Munchkin is kind of a similar theme isn't it, but it doesn't have a board?

Although from what I hear, its popularity comes mainly from its theme, not its gameplay.
free resources:
Teleleli The people, places, gods and monsters of the great city of Teleleli and the islands around.
Age of Fable 'Online gamebook', in the style of Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf and Fabled Lands.
Tables for Fables Random charts for any fantasy RPG rules.
Fantasy Adventure Ideas Generator
Cyberpunk/fantasy/pulp/space opera/superhero/western Plot Generator.
Cute Board Heroes Paper 'miniatures'.
Map Generator
Dungeon generator for Basic D&D or Tunnels & Trolls.

jcfiala
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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2008, 10:34:59 AM »
Quote from: Age of Fable;265535
Munchkin is kind of a similar theme isn't it, but it doesn't have a board?

Although from what I hear, its popularity comes mainly from its theme, not its gameplay.


Munchkin's theme is more comic D&D than Talisman, but the idea is the same - get to the top of the hill and prevent others from reaching you.  The main reason I was thinking of it is that it has the same turn structure - move to a new area (by drawing a card), fight a monster, gain treasure.  But unlike Talisman, everyone's interested and engaged during other people's turns because you can be drawn into the fights on either side, either with your character or by using cards to make *this* goblin bigger or weaker.
 

Blackthorne

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Talisman. What would you change in your ideal version (if anything)?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2009, 06:01:28 PM »
Gabriel the Second speaks the truth.