I see reading comprehension is not your strong side, Vulmea. Since everything you said was actually addressed by my post you quoted.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;677150If you really want to talk about TBZ, then there's not a gawddamned thing preventing you from starting a thread in this forum and doing so.

However, it seems like you'd both rather talk about your butthurt over where the game is discussed on this one website than actually talk about the game, so your lamentations are just so many ridiculous crocodile tears.

You miss the point in both of our responses.

Its also worth noting that the sort of discussion you denigrate here actually saw Dungeon World re-categorised as an RPG, which was followed by interesting RPG related discussion. Seems like a win all around.

Quote from: Skywalker;677202You miss the point in both of our responses.

Its also worth noting that the sort of discussion you denigrate here actually saw Dungeon World re-categorised as an RPG, which was followed by interesting RPG related discussion. Seems like a win all around.

For as much as some people around here say " we've got no problems with the games we've classified as story games they just need to be discussed in Other Games" and " I don't know why people act like Other Games is the 'gutter' ", they certainly do seem to stop by to threadcrap and try to shut down any conversations here a lot.

Just sayin'

Quote from: TristramEvans;677207For as much as some people around here say " we've got no problems with the games we've classified as story games they just need to be discussed in Other Games" and " I don't know why people act like Other Games is the 'gutter' ", they certainly do seem to stop by to threadcrap and try to shut down any conversations here a lot.

I promise you, it doesn't matter in which forum you put a post about Apocalypse World, I won't read it either way, 'cause I don't give a shit.

The fact that Skywalker sees DW being included in the main rpg forum as some kind of 'victory' does nothing but put a big ol' exclamation point at the end of my previous post.

Again, if you were really interested in writing about a particular game, you'd be writing about it, not whinging about which forum it goes in.

Just let Vulmea have his weekly threadcrap, guys.

Greg Stafford took pains to call his Prince Valiant game a "storytelling game" and, IIRC, explicitly different from (i.e., not) an RPG.

The systematic difference, as I recall, came in with the rules for Storyteller Certificates. I think the main GM was still said to have veto power, but basically this was a limited handover of "narrative control."

All very primitive compared with later developments that cut straight to the narrative-control game, but I think still a notable shift in the player's role.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;677213I promise you, it doesn't matter in which forum you put a post about Apocalypse World, I won't read it either way, 'cause I don't give a shit.

The fact that Skywalker sees DW being included in the main rpg forum as some kind of 'victory' does nothing but put a big ol' exclamation point at the end of my previous post.

Again, if you were really interested in writing about a particular game, you'd be writing about it, not whinging about which forum it goes in.

I fail to see whinging about people whinging as much different is my point

Ouroboros of Whining.

Quote from: Rincewind1;677226Ouroboros of Whining.

Indeed.

Quote from: TristramEvans;677224I fail to see whinging about people whinging as much different is my point

'I can't post about the game I want where I want.'

'But you can still post about it, so post about it.'

'You're both whiners!'

Yeah, nice try at false equivalence, TE.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;677238'I can't post about the game I want where I want.'

'But you can still post about it, so post about it.'

'You're both whiners!'

Yeah, nice try at false equivalence, TE.

Nice try at a straw man to you my friend.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;677238'I can't post about the game I want where I want.'

'But you can still post about it, so post about it.'

'You're both whiners!'

Yeah, nice try at false equivalence, TE.

I know I can post about it in Other Games. I don't want to. That seems to bother you for some reason. Maybe you want to talk about it?

Why?

Because you don't want to start a thread that may not get as many looks as a thread in RPG Main Forum? - That seems a little odd.

Because you disagree that your game isn't an RPG on (insert grounds here) therefore you simply refuse? - You basically make Vulmea's point.

As far as TBZ goes, any game where, no matter what the character does, no matter what the character faces, no matter what the opposition does, no matter what happens in the setting PERIOD - the character absolutely positively cannot die unless the player checks a box that says "I choose to risk death and gain the corresponding mechanical benefit." isn't going to get quantified as an RPG here.

If you can't see why, you are incapable of seeing that narrative breaking point, well, then dunno what to tell ya.  Enjoy the never-ending threads about where it is and the passive-aggressive "Oh there's lots of meaningful gaming discussion to be had, IF ONLY..." statements.

Quote from: CRKrueger;677429Why?

Because you don't want to start a thread that may not get as many looks as a thread in RPG Main Forum? - That seems a little odd.

It seems odd that I prefer to put effort in posting content and encouraging discussion in forums where I can expect majority of the audience to see it rather than just a part of it? Really? Because it doesn't to me and I don't do copypaste threads over all gaming forums I read like some people.

QuoteBecause you disagree that your game isn't an RPG on (insert grounds here) therefore you simply refuse? - You basically make Vulmea's point.

I don't see why I should spend my own efforts to legitimize Pundit's political bullshit. If he wants to start threads about TBZ in Open, he can be my guest. I might even post if anything interesting happens.

QuoteAs far as TBZ goes, any game where, no matter what the character does, no matter what the character faces, no matter what the opposition does, no matter what happens in the setting PERIOD - the character absolutely positively cannot die unless the player checks a box that says "I choose to risk death and gain the corresponding mechanical benefit." isn't going to get quantified as an RPG here.

It's possible to perform a coup de grace by the rules. The book tells the GM that doing it on PCs is poor form. But your above statement is not true, even if that wasn't an awfully arbitrary dividing line.

QuoteIf you can't see why, you are incapable of seeing that narrative breaking point, well, then dunno what to tell ya.  Enjoy the never-ending threads about where it is and the passive-aggressive "Oh there's lots of meaningful gaming discussion to be had, IF ONLY..." statements.

Vulmea seems really bothered by it, so that's some entertainment in it I suppose.

Quote from: vytzka;677431It seems odd that I prefer to put effort in posting content and encouraging discussion in forums where I can expect majority of the audience to see it rather than just a part of it? Really? Because it doesn't to me and I don't do copypaste threads over all gaming forums I read like some people.

So for this to be a valid argument you must then be advocating on every forum you frequent that they simply have one forum where all topics go.  You have a link anywhere in the internet where you have made that claim on other forums?  No?  Ok, so we're back to you're just butthurt.

Quote from: vytzka;677431I don't see why I should spend my own efforts to legitimize Pundit's political bullshit.

Thank you for verifying you see this as a political struggle.

Quote from: vytzka;677431It's possible to perform a coup de grace by the rules.

Make your case for the "Don't die box" not qualifying the game as a non-traditional rpg.  Noone can say Pundit will never change his mind.

Quote from: vytzka;677431But your above statement is not true, even if that wasn't an awfully arbitrary dividing line.

If you were going to place a dividing line between games with mechanics I engage as a character and games with mechanics I engage as a player and a character, having a "Player says the character can't die box", would pretty much be the definition of the dividing line.